Can someone check my reasoning befoe I lose my marbles at the constant mantra of “Ovo do not offer E10 and you cannot have been overcharged”…..(Yet again this morning)

Fact of the matter is, the meter installed in my flat certainly is set to E10, as it switches the off peak circuits on in accordance with E10 timing. Trouble is, when you check on the IHD its definitely showing peak rates, and the usage light instantly turns amber or red. Therefore my water cylinder and night storage heaters are racking up excess charges when they come on in the afternoon and evening

Even when I point out that my website plan page and my downloaded invoices show E10, they just pause and state that Ovo dont offer E10 (again). Its lile they are robots reading off a script

I really thought the ACR team would be a well trained unit….sorry but thats not the case so far

@Emmanuelle_OVO  I was all set preparing to go to the Ombudsman, when the ACR team started ringing me, so I put things hold, hoping for a resolution.

In any event, given the post from @JessicaRose earlier this week, it seems the Ombudsman experience is another waste of time

It makes me really angry that Ovo can be this bad and not suffer consequences

from what I can figure out things are as follows (OVO have got the gumption to admit this but I’m pretty sure I’m right):

Ovo force migrated us from SSE in order to complete the acquisition by a set date (told this by ovo) and did so knowing that they could not support the E10 tariff as they did not (and still don’t) offer one themselves.  Technically they are right, they *dont* offer E10 but have inherited a load of us that they don’t know quite what to do with.  The issue started because SSE use the TPR settings the other way round to OVO and, because OVO don’t offer E10 as a new tariff they cannot configure the meter correctly, when they are trying to ‘fix’ the issue, they are using a JSON file which is set up for E7 and causing the issue that we all have .

The peak / off peak timings for the meter are set independently so do not respond to the configuration file.  I did ask OVO if I wanted to just move to E7, could they fix the meter and they said it would need a replacement meter, set up for E7 rather than E10 and they weren’t able to do that at present (surprise!)

The supposed simple fix of correctly editing an E10 JSON file and pushing it out to the affected meters seems to be the required solution but somehow OVO choose not to do this  

This has not been a good week - I feel like Ive gone backwards despite multiple calls from the ACR Team. I honestly think if I passed on what @JessicaRose posted above they would listen, pause and then just say “Ovo do not offer E10”

Any solution seems to be getting further away, as quite frankly Ovo havent a clue what they are doing.

Oh and crown it all, they still havent emailed me the two invoices they altered last Friday and are not making available on the website

I need a drink…..

Well I had a late evening G&T and looked over some other threads with E10 in the title. This one seems to directly contradict what Im being told, in that Ovo DO offer it but only on the Simple Energy Variable tariff (which is me)

Is this true?

There are posts there from @Emmanuelle_OVO ...can you get to the bottom of this?

I am sure OVO could do this just by modifying the TPR file. @Firedog has been telling them that since god was a boy! But they choose to ignore him. They either don't understand their own systems or they just don't care.

We need someone who understands and has the technical knowledge to make the changes we want! 

Had contact with Complaints Handler last week, she didn't understand! Didn't know a ECAUL or TPR from a hole in the ground! She was only interested in offering compensation, (not enough!) AND closing the complaint. Not interested in fixing the problem. Politely declined and send her off to talk to technical people.

My personal view is that there are two many left hands at OVO who have no idea what the right hand is up to, if indeed there is one. In the thread you referred to, a metering expert says “it won't give you the benefits of Economy 10 with just the tariff alone.”  There are a number of planets that have to align for E10 (or any other ‘complex’ tariff for that matter) to work. We’ve only managed to document one working setup (joanx’s); that doesn’t mean that there aren’t many others, but of course we don’t hear about them. All we hear about is a tiny dissatisfied subset of the affected customers who find their way to this forum, so we’ve no idea of the scope of the problem.

However, we know that it’s possible - joanx’s experience proves it. What we don’t know is what makes her constellation different from yours, say. It could be the meter configuration ab ovo (!) or after the installation engineer had done his stuff or after OVO had waved their remote wand at it. It could be something that Billing have done, or indeed a combination of all of these factors and probably some others as well. Whatever the cause of this difference between working and not-working systems, it should be discoverable and, once established and documented, applied to the non-working systems. 

There are enough cases on their way to the Ombudsman now for it to be worthwhile financially for OVO to allocate the resources needed to sort this out. Put a competent metering tech in a room with someone who knows his way around the byzantine billing system and don’t let them out until they’ve cracked it, I say. 

Yes @Firedog the people ive spoken to last week would have no clue about getting a system to work….as ive said, they parrot the company line like robots

My biggest concern at the moment is that they are altering previously issued bills and not giving me the ability to see what theyve done. That has to be borderline illegal, else they could go through life just making things up

Yes, well, I quite understand that an accountant would be most concerned about the state of his account, whereas this old engineer tends to concentrate on the technical aspects of the problem. However, the two go hand in glove: billing won’t come right until the meter’s working as it should. I’d be inclined to defer any attempt to correct historic billing until that time comes, although in your case this might never be possible. You could work out what you should have been billed and compare it to what OVO eventually say you should, but I doubt the two will ever coincide. Add to that the extra expense you’ve been put to by being led to believe that you were buying energy at a cheap rate when in fact they were selling it to you at a higher one. That will come down to a negotiated settlement with - DV - a bit of customer-friendly persuasion from the Ombudsman in due course.

@Firedog @MikeMilf I couldn't agree more with your last couple of comments! The solution is at hand if OVO would just listen! They appear to have no one senior enough or technically competent who understands the difference between a ECAUL and a TPR! 

I am sick of dealing with Complaints Handlers who think offering derisory compensation thinking it will make it us go away. I don't want compensation until this is sorted out. Then I’ll talk cash.

@Firedog I think you have offered OVO the solution. Why don't they listen?

If you look back on forums , I think this problem has been apparent for at least two years. Long Before the migration.  Why has nothing been done about it! OVO don’t understand their systems or they don't care!

Forum comment by @Tim_OVO 2 years ago!!

I’ve updated this related topic, and I wanted to share the latest info I have been given about this:

J

• Why is my economy 7 smart meter switching to peak rates for 30 minutes every morning whilst still connecting my off peak circuit?

Before I jump into specifics, please be aware that the advice below may not apply to you. Our Support team are best placed to access your account and give you account specific advice, so please take this with a pinch of salt. 

I’ve shared this thread with a bunch of very clever colleagues who work for OVO to support the smart meter roll out.

They have advised that the tariff and the ALCS (auxilliary load control switch - a relay that can open and close to power things attached to it like storage heaters) are two separate objects in a smart meter.

When OVO implemented a capability for economy 7 (E7) in SMETS2 meters, it introduced it with a working assumption that there was one SSC/TPR combination for each MPAN area and as such, set up the tariffs/ALCS schedules to this assumption.

This has proven to be incorrect and as a result, there are instances where some customers have switched to us on an SSC/TPR that we don't currently support to the minute. This is being corrected, with Kaluza (our billing platform provider) mapping all the possible SSC/TPR combinations to ALCS/tariff schedules for each area, but we’re not sure when this will be delivered.

In the meantime we can do a manual workaround to amend either the ALCS or the tariff. If you haven’t done this already please request that a ticket is raised with Support for this, and let me know here if you have any issues. It might be easiest to simply link this topic in a web chat, which you can access here.  

Hope this helps,

Tim

View original

LOL @Firedog I dont think Im being a bean counter wearing an accounting hat, its just I strenuously object to adjustments being made to my original bills which I cannot then verify. These adjustments have already reduced my credit balance by £250

It begs the quesion how they can issue any kind of  amended bill when they havent establised how E10 customers can be billed going forward.]

I like to think I can do pretty much most things in the PC sphere, including building and reparing, but I have to say this whole meter techno-babble leaves my brain fuzzy. Are we now expected to be electrical engineers to get this issue corrected? I tip my hat to @JessicaRose  @pegem and you in that regard

Received the latest email from ACR team supposedly setting out the ‘progress’ made

Apparently I am incorrect when I say my meter is on E10 to which I replied “send an engineer and he can watch the off-peak circuit lights switch on at times of day when E7 says peak rates are active”

He also said there is a billing hold on my account from 09.10.23. ARRRGH! Im not interested in bills that havent been sent out yet, I want copies of those dated 08.09.23 and 08.10.23 that have already been issued and altered!

How can a national energy company be so damn clueless?

Takes a great deal of practice!

End of another week and just received another cut and paste email from the person handling (thats a joke) my complaint

Just a rehash of last two emails telling me my account is on ‘billing hold’ and under investigation

Oh yes….the credit balance shown is not a true reflection….oh really, well I never! Ive only been telling you that for five months+

I give up worrying about this, as any supposed solution they present is going to be garbage

Edit - how about this…..zero my account, stick me on a tariff you can handle and help me forget the last six months with Ovo ever happened!

This post was about Economy 7 configurations. This thread is about Economy 10.

The problem being discussed there concerned a difference of 30 minutes between a tariff change (e.g. peak > offpeak) and the corresponding circuits being energized. That doesn’t appear to be the fault described in this thread. 

It’s quite possible that some sort of tariff-schedule/ALCS-timings misalignment is also happening to these E10 customers, but it’s not the same problem as that discussed in the other thread. 

If I’ve followed your pilgrim’s progress properly, it is more than eight weeks since your complaint was formally entered, but no resolution has been forthcoming. That is the recipe for an escalation to the Ombudsman, so I hope that is what you’ve done.

I know it’s complicated, but I’d suggest that you try and keep the technical aspects separate from billing. They have to line up in the end, of course, but it might make it easier for the Ombudsman service to get meaningful responses from OVO if they can clearly distinguish the metering aspects of your case from the way you’ve been billed. 

And please don’t let either the Ombudsman or OVO tell you that ‘it can’t be done’, because Joan’s case shows that it can.
 

Hi @Firedog, thanks for continuing to take an interest. You are right, its now nine weeks since my original complaint letter went in - however in my mind I was always going to allow an extra week for Christmas (arent I nice lol)

Ive copied in below, the text of the “Eight Week Letter” I received on 31.01.24 I must admit I baulked at having to re-hash all the info to the Ombudsman, however in the time since receiving that letter weve gone nowhere.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr.XXX

An update on the progress we're making with your complaint

We're still working on a resolution for your complaint but whenever this takes more than eight weeks, we make sure you get an update on the progress we've made and what happens next. We also explain about your right to contact the Energy Ombudsman and how to do this,

Your complaint update and next steps

•  That your meter should be eco10 but is showing as eco 7 on our system
•  Internal investigation is ongoing to resolve your complaint

(Lengthy standard stuff about contacting Ombudsman removed)

Energy Ombudsman contact details 

If you choose to contact the Ombudsman, where possible use their online form or phone them, and please make sure you mention that you have received this 'eight-week letter'.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am aware of the need to keep my complaint in two sections and I have….both have ground to a halt

Tariffs - Ovo are repeatedly adamant that they “do not Offer E10” and despite all my explainations about my meter switching on offpeak according to E10, they seem incapable of understanding what I am telling them

Billing - They have failed to provide copies of the two invoices that were altered on or around 26.01. All I got is the “billing hold” mantra which surely shouldnt affect bills already issued then altered?

I really want to speak someone senior who I can have some faith in getting this resolved. The person who is handling my complaint does not seem to getting things clearly established and I have little confidence that we are going to make progress

Any ideas/comments? (Othe than go straight to Ombudsman). Can I insist that my case be referred higher up? Can you ring the Ombudsman without having put in full details (ideally to gauge whether they are aware of the Ovo/E10 issue)

Thanks in advance and sorry for clogging the thread again

Hey @MikeMilf,

I’m sorry for your on-going issues,

This is the advice take from our website: 

We will do everything we can to resolve your complaint as quickly as possible. In a small number of cases it might take longer and if it’s taken over 8 weeks, you can speak to the Energy Ombudsman. We may also write to you with a final decision that you disagree with. This is called a ‘deadlock’ letter and you can also speak to the Ombudsman if you are unhappy with our actions. The Energy Ombudsman provides a free, independent service.

They’ll review what’s happened and how we’ve handled your complaint. First, they’ll look at everything we’ve done so far with your complaint. Then they’ll decide if we should have done more – and what we need to do to put it right.

Here’s how to get in touch with them:

• Phone: 0330 440 1624 (Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm, and Saturday, 9am to 1pm)
• Email: enquiry@energyombudsman.org
• Website: www.energyombudsman.org
• Post: Energy Ombudsman, PO Box 966, Warrington WA4 9DF

Helpful to know – you don’t have to accept their decision – but we have to.

@MikeMilf @Firedog @Emmanuelle_OVO 

Here's the latest in my saga.  Ovo are not saying they can't update a smart meter to work with E10 and they're wanting to put me back on a non smart meter.

This feels like a retrograde step in many ways as it takes away the ability to monitor my usage and presumable a non smart meter is not going to be able to provide the data for my balance to be updated daily on the Ovo app either so Im basically being put back into the ‘dark ages’.

Is there any proof that OVO in fact *Can* update these meters and they are just looking to get out of fixing the problem or is this the best solution that Ovo are capable of providing?  If it is the best solution then Im seriously going to look at other suppliers even if it means signing up before the price cap drop in a couple of months as I really don't want to be moved away from a smart meter having had to fight SSE for years to have one installed in the first place!

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated.

Hi, we received the following from OVO this morning after threatening them with Ofgem again. 

"I Understand you have made queries in regards to your billing and Tariff.

I have spoken with our internal team and investigated , unfortunately we do not support ECO 10 , You are currently on ECO 07 and that is what we can offer you , once i again i apologised that you have been give a wrong information and as already had explained on phone we can only support ECO 07 which is you tariff presently . As a way of apologising and for the stress caused you , i will be applying a compensation £100 and £50 to cover for the tariff ,excess paid already.

If you have any query or concern please call me on 0330 102 7400,please. Alternatively, you can

also email me on feedback@ovoenergy.com.

I look forward to hearing from you soon. Please note- we are unable to keep complaints

open indefinitely therefore, if I do not hear from you by the 16th of Febuaury 2024 your

complaint will be closed.

Yours Sincerely,"

They've not been listening to anything we've said! Ofgem and transfer to octopus methinks!

@pegem Thanks for that, that explains a lot.  Time to bail out I think!  I've been looking at SO Energy as they have a tariff that supports E10 smart meters

We’ve just referred this sorry saga to OFGEN. They told us that once it's live with them OVO can't shut it down until it's resolved. Even if you transfer to another provider!

Hi all

@pegem was that (derisory) £100 offer to cover over-billing and personal stress/duress? If so, how have they quantified the over-billing?

It looks like my patience ran out a little before yours…...at the weekend I registered my complaint with the Ombudsman, and I have just had a 50 minute convo with a very switched on case handler. Basically I wanted to see if they were aware of the Ovo/E10 debacle, and the answer was definitely yes.

He seemed genuinely impressed with my record and evidence keeping and said youve basically made it impossible for them to wriggle on the facts

When Im feeling nice and calm, I will methodically upload everything he requested. Apparently both sides have 14 days to do so, then he can begin working on his deliberations

Feeling a bit more positive now, but ultimately people can let you down...we shall see

Thanks Mike, We are not alone!!