THTC meter - Removal Request

I’ve no idea, I’m afraid.

We’re talking about several different bits of the system here. Complex metering involves at least these elements:

1. The tariff. This is the basis of your contract with the supplier, who is obliged to supply electricity at the rates given at the times specified. 
2. The meter’s Time-of-Use (TOU) table, which should be set to switch between the different registers (e.g. peak and offpeak) at the times specified in the tariff.
3. If an Auxiliary Load Control Switch (ALCS) is installed, the ALCS calendar* dictates when power to heating circuits is turned on and off. This should of course also match the timings specified in the tariff.
4. The tariff rates. A smart meter will store the current unit rates and standing charge to enable it (and the associated IHD) to show usage in pounds and pence as well as in kWh.
   This is only for informational purposes - it has no effect on billing, which looks solely at usage in kWh and the rates given in the tariff.

(2) and (3) are (or should be) set at installation. Subsequent changes would normally be made Over-The-Air (OTA), i.e. remotely via the WAN. If there is no WAN connection, then I expect any such change would involve a site visit.

If there’s no need to differentiate between peak and offpeak usage - e.g. when usage during offpeak periods is below the level needed to make it worthwhile - then this is all academic. This depends, of course, on individual circumstances. If the only appliance that might be cheaper to run offpeak is a water heater, it’s quite likely that this wouldn’t justify the higher price paid for everything else, like heaters switched on on demand. 

You may find that the tariff you choose can’t be changed at all (e.g. E7 to E10 or vice versa), although it should be possible to change a TOU tariff to single-rate. If everything is charged at the same rate, then billing would take care of it regardless of any switching between registers. 
  

*   It’s only called a calendar and not a timetable because there are tariffs that allow for different timings at weekends and on bank holidays, for example. It would be unusual to find any domestic user with this sort of tariff, but plenty of business consumers have them.

Thanks @Firedog 
Very useful, once again!

“You may find that the tariff you choose can’t be changed at all (e.g. E7 to E10 or vice versa), although it should be possible to change a TOU tariff to single-rate. If everything is charged at the same rate, then billing would take care of it regardless of any switching between registers.”

I tend to change suppliers often, to get the best market rates. Some of the ToU tariffs on offer are very attractive.
Sounds like it may be awkward to modify ToU tariffs in the scenario I describe, unless a site visit can be arranged. Same with changing suppliers.

Yep. Many of the ToU tariffs on offer depend on a smart meter that is in contact with the supplier, so you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of them in any case if there’s no WAN. 

I think you should concentrate on getting WAN to reach your home. This would mean badgering the supplier and complaining regularly to bodies like Home Energy Scotland and anyone else (e.g. Citizens Advice) who may be able to bring pressure to bear on DCC to bring you into the fold. The solution is not necessarily Arqiva building a 50m mast in your back garden; it might just be a question of hooking your meter up to your neighbour’s.

Hi @Mo59,

I’ve had a response from our expert, they’ve advised me that the above update from 14/06/2024 is still valid. The aim is still to reach out to RTS customers still affected by this issue sometime this month.

This thread may also be helpful: 

As soon as we have any further updates, we will update all relevant topics.

Thanks @Firedog 

The situation above describes worst case - truth is, I may well be WAN-able.
It’d be helpful to know either way, but from reading previous posts, it seems difficult to get this info?
If anyone has any tips or tricks, I’d be grateful to hear them.

“I’m sorry to hear this. I’ll get our Forum_Support team to reach out again to look into this further for you.”

@Shads_OVO Thanks!

I haven’t heard anything yet from the Forum_Support team.

Also haven’t heard from the Advisor I spoke to last week who promised to email me with an explanation as to why I can’t get a Smart Meter. 

The problem is that it’s DCC who rule over the ‘coverage map’ which tells suppliers and installers whether the SM WAN is likely to reach a particular property or not. No mere electricity customer can get to know what it says about his own neck of the woods, and of course it can never be perfectly accurate. 

Arqiva tend to mount SM WAN aerials on the 1500 or so television transmitter masts they have dotted about the kingdom. If you have decent TV reception, your TV aerial is probably pointing towards the mast where your SM WAN antenna is mounted. If your meter box/cupboard happens to be on the opposite side of the house and the house is hewn from native granite, there might well be problems. 

However, there are so many customers in similar situations that some of the more adventurous RF-savvy ones have come up with solutions that seem to work in many cases. You could spend an entertaining hour or two trawling through threads like this one to see how people have overcome the hurdles, started receiving and transmitting smart meter data and promptly switched to suppliers offering favourable EV tariffs. 

And somewhere over the rainbow there’s a scheme to equip awkward customers in the north region with dual-mode meters that default to the LRR solution but switch to a mobile phone band if that doesn’t work. Of course, if your bothy on the banks of the Quoich is out of range of both, this won’t help. But then, not many bothies up there have mains electricity anyway, so it’s probably moot. 

Hey @monster9,

We’ve been updating you on this thread: 

If we could keep the conversations going on one thread that would be amazing, as it holds everything together 

Thanks @Firedog 

I looked at the local planning portal’s historic planning applications and identified that Arqiva do indeed have an antenna close-by, although hidden from sight (neighbours tell me there’s a dish nailed to a tree not 500m from the house).
That planning portal detailed a request from Arqiva to install a VSAT link.
Not sure what that link would be used for - could be any sort of data, I suppose?

We do get the majority of Freeview channels in the house, so that’s also encouraging.

P.S. the house is hewn from native granite.



P.P.S.

The planning portal and your television transmitter masts link both identify the same location.

That transmitter is identified as “Freeview light transmitter”.

I’m sure there’s a reference to ‘Freeview Light’ masts somewhere in those EV forums, where IIRC the poster claimed that they were typically not used to host SMWAN aerials. I may have got that wrong, but you might have a look yourself. So even though you have a decent TV signal, it may be coming from the wrong sort of mast …

And this old pedant should have read what he wrote before posting. It sounded all right, but of course it’s the granite that’s hewn, not the house. But you got my meaning. Anyway, with a house like that, it would be vital to have the meter (or at least any antenna that might be taken into use) is on the windward side of the house, so to speak, i.e. with no bits of house between the meter/antenna and the mast it’s trying to connect to.

“I’m sure there’s a reference to ‘Freeview Light’ masts somewhere in those EV forums, where IIRC the poster claimed that they were typically not used to host SMWAN aerials.“ @Firedog 

Just received a call from OVO support telling me there’s no WAN connectivity in my area, therefore, no possibility of a Smart meter.

I asked when the WAN would be provided at my location and was told there is no target date.

Still confused as to how my neighbour has a working Smart meter, if this is the case?

I asked about the possibility of utilising my neighbour’s meter in order to connect to the WAN as I believe this meter-to-meter communication is possible. It sounded like this was news to the advisor.

Progress!

I’ve been promised a site visit in a week or so to check what is possible at my property.

Fingers crossed!

In a separate note, someone on a forum elsewhere has stated that “"I’ve spoken to a different agent at OVO this morning who has now confirmed that THTC meters are being replaced with a dual circuit smart meter"

Is anyone able to verify this “Dual circuit smart meter” theory, please?

It sounds entirely plausible. My worry would be that trying to move away from OVO with this kind of Smart meter may pose problems for the new supplier?

By Dual-Circuit I think they actually meant 5-Terminal. OVO has no plans to do Twin Element Smart Meters.

Oh dear, the vagaries of technical terms! It would be good if @monster9 could give us the reference to the ‘other forum’ post he read. 

I’d be inclined to think that it was referring to the ‘dual mode’ communication hubs currently being trialled, the ones that have both LRR and ‘mobile’ transceivers in a belt-and-braces approach to communication. I’m furious that I can’t remember where I read about them.

There’s also confusion with ‘dual band’ CHs for the Northern region, probably only in the RAF Fylingdales danger zone. They operate in both the 420 and 450 MHz bands for the WAN, but they also have both 823MHz and 2400MHz HAN capability. I’d call that ‘double-dual-band’!

‘Dual circuit’ does sound like a five-wire arrangement similar to that already being used by many THTC systems - one for heating and hot water, the other for everything else. There’s nothing new about this.

Hi @monster9,

Are you able to provide a link to the other topic so we can take a look into this for you?

It might not be public - I can’t find that exact reference anywhere.

Switching to deep scan - please bear with me, this may take a while.

Nope! Doesn’t seem to be public. Sorry

It's on a Facebook "THTC customers" page. It is a private group. 

Ah yeah, that’d explain it.

Feel free to signpost that user here - we might be able to advise. Arguably, this Forum is a better place to get help with THTC stuff now - we have better access to resources than any Facebook Page/Group ever will.

The “forum elsewhere” I mentioned is the “THTC Customers” Forum on Facebook and the post from 4 days ago stated…

UPDATE: I’ve spoken to a different agent at OVO this morning who has now confirmed that THTC meters are being replaced with a dual circuit smart meter which will only energise the off-peak circuit at lower cost periods. Let’s hope he knows what he’s talking about better than his colleague

Hi @monster9,

Thank you for your response. 

I’m going to double check this with our smart meter expert and I’ll be back as soon as I get a response.

Hi @monster9,

Our smart meter expert has responded and said:

“A dual circuit meter is a duel element meter. We're not fitting 'dual circuit' meters and it’s not a term that we should be using with customers. The meters we're fitting are going to be programmed to the tariff the customers are going on, the heating and water will then be aligned accordingly.”

I apologise that you’ve been misadvised. 

 I’ve had a look at the Facebook post @monster9  referred to, and I’m increasingly convinced that what the poster referred to as a ‘dual circuit smart meter’ is just a five-wire SM feeding two wiring circuits: one for 24 hour use, the other only for off-peak usage. They’re sometimes referred to as constant and switched. 
  

The newest post there makes for pleasant reading, for a change, so I’ll reproduce it here (lightly edited):
  

The last bullet point is interesting: I wonder if she has one of these, or the engineer was just telling her about an innovation in the offing.

Thanks for looking into this @Firedog, this is useful to know. 

Update on my expected Ovo appointment… Case **removed by mod**

I had an appointment booked for today with an Ovo engineer to perform a Site Inspection.

Here’s how it went, starting last night….

Engineer Message 1: Hi it's iname redacted] from OVO Energy,  This is just a text just to remind you of the 12-4pm appointment tomorrow to fit your new electric smart meter. If you could please text me back to CONFIRM appointment that would be greatly appreciated. Please make sure the meter location and fuse box is clear and accessible for myself as the meter itself is to be swapped. I also need access to your fusebox. If working from home please note the power will need to be turned off in order to change the electric meter. Thank you see you tomorrow

Engineer Message 2: Ive tried ringing rMe: why no missed call on my phone then?]  im not sure if this is going to work as been booked in incorrectly im going to ring my boss see what he says

Me: Thank you for your message. I can confirm I will be available for the appointment tomorrow.

Engineer Message 3: I sent a message to our office because its been incorrectly booked and its been removed and cancelled i believe will get confirmation tomorrow no ones getting back to me. It needs booking in correctly its quite complex the thtc so everything on the admin side needs to be correct otherwise it wont work

Engineer Message 4: Hi sorry yes this job wont be done today as its been booked incorrectly. The correct team is going to ring you and talk you through your options then book it in correctly.

Me: Thanks for the update. I will pass this information on to the complaints team.

Engineer Message 5: No problem i said its part of a complaint i think thats where its gone wrong as these thtc jobs need to go through a specific team and it hasnt.

The correct team will liase with the complaints team to sort

Couple of things…

• The appointment was for a Site Inspection, not to fit a new meter. According to the Advanced Resolution Specialist working on my case who I spoke to this morning, this was stated in the booking details. So, quite why the engineer thinks he’s installing a new meter is a mystery to me.
• The Advanced Resolution Specialist doesn’t seem to understand how to get a THTC appointment booked
• The booking system is apparently experiencing problems, so no new appointment can be raised at this time.
• I had booked the afternoon off work. This represents a loss of income to me. The Advanced Resolution Specialist advises me that there’s no claim I can make in respect to this financial loss which is entirely due to Ovo’s failure to honour their appointment. Why not?

Ovo not exactly covering themselves in glory here.

Hey @monster9,

I’ve been in regular contact with your Advanced Resolution Specialist since we raised the complaint to them. He did reach out to me this morning to make me aware that the appointments been cancelled and i’ve been speaking with our infrastructure team and a lead engineer to find out why this was cancelled as it was booked as a site inspection to determine whether WAN is available or not. I’ll continue to work with them on how we can get this resolved for you as soon as we can. We’re trying our best to try and work on this so as soon as we know more I will ask Chris to give you a call/email to discuss it with you. 

I’m sorry that it’s still an ongoing challenge for you! I’ve asked Chris to look into raising a Guaranteed Standards of Performance payment for the missed appointment and he’ll pick this up with you. You can find more information on this here:

https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/guaranteed-standard-of-performance-gsop

We’ll reach out to you as soon as we have an update on this.