The short answer to that is ‘nobody knows’. Every single RTS-controlled system is unique, with different combinations of metering equipment and controls, and different wiring arrangements for different combinations of heating equipment. Some may stay in the state they were in when the signal was turned off; some may have fail-safe systems that just turn everything under RTS-control off if no signal is received.   

There is no such animal as a ‘dumb’ smart meter these days. The SMETS2 meters being installed by OVO in Scotland are of the same type, and they don’t have a ‘dumb mode’. What ‘serious issues’ are you hoping to circumvent?

“...even if I have to enter my smart meter readings manually ...” sounds as if that’s not what you’re doing at present. Is it?

Hi Firedog,

• By “dumb” I mean a Smart Meter operating outwith the SM-WAN. I imagine it’ll be pre-setup with a tariff (E10) and I’ll have to enter the meter readings manually to my supplier periodically, instead of the meter being read remotely. At least, that’s what Ovo have told me.
• By “serious issues” I mean finding out the day after RTS turnoff that I don’t have the heating and hot water facility I had up until that point. As you say, ‘nobody knows’ what will happen to their heating / hot water after the RTS turnoff if they haven’t received a Smart Meter by that time.

OK, I think. You’re going ahead with having a smart meter installed instead of your current RTS-controlled THTC system. That sounds sensible to me, and it will avoid the serious issues you’re concerned about, whether the meter is communicating with the WAN or not. 

The pre-programming you refer to is less certain. These meters normally come configured for Economy 7, and the re-configuration for Economy 10 would normally happen during the commissioning phase - which depends on its being in contact with OVO. I hope it will be possible for this to be done prior to installation, but I’m not certain about it. Even if it were possible, there remains the question of the peak/offpeak switching times, which again have to be done while the meter is in contact with the mothership. I’m afraid you’re just going to have to wait and see what happens when the engineer gets there and tries to do his stuff.

Did I suggest you find out where your (proper, not Freeview) television transmitter is? That may be a significant factor in determining whether you’ll have a chance of connecting to the WAN. And while we’re at it, can your mobile phone connect over 4G if you stand near the meter?

Hi @Firedog

There is no 4G or any other mobile signal in the village. Can I ask what it’d be needed for re. the smart meter as I’m in Scotland?

I’m having difficulty locating the nearest (non-Freeview) TV transmitter. Lots of broken or out of date internet links.
Any ideas???

You got that right! 

 @monster9  I only asked because of ongoing trials of dual-mode meter communication hubs for use in the frozen North. These have both a long-range radio  (LRR) receiver/transmitter and a SIM, so if LRR doesn’t work, it will try to connect via 4G. 

If you’re receiving a decent TV signal, there’s a chance your new meter will be able to connect via LRR.

I just discovered that we went through all this some weeks ago:
  

where I also gave the address of a page showing all the TV transmitters. I’m sorry I may have misled you by my references to Freeview: it’s the Freeview Light masts that probably don’t host Arqiva LRR antennae.

It’s not clear whether you ever had the site survey we were so keen to hear about a few weeks ago ...

Thanks @Firedog 

Sadly, the site survey was called off the day before.
Allegedly, I’m due another attempt but so far have heard nothing re. new date.

‍♂️

A response to my MSP’s question to Smart DCC re. Smart Meter availability in remote locations…

---

Thank you for your email, contacting our communication service provider Arqiva, they have forwarded your query across to us.
 
I have registered the correspondence.
 
As I am sure you are aware from our previous correspondence some time ago, our network’s coverage is available to 99.3% of properties in the UK, however, where coverage is available, it is but an indicator of the possibility of connectivity, rather than a guarantee, as there can be local factors, outside of our control that can impact on the ability of devices to connect. These factors, such as the property construction material, location of the meter, other devices in the vicinity etc can prevent successful network connection and often only become apparent when an installation is attempted. Unfortunately, your constituents fall into a No WAN coverage area as their energy supplier has advised, where our current network does not reach at this time.
 
Despite the level of network coverage, we currently support, we do recognize that there are some consumers who are unable to have an operating smart meter because of lack of coverage.  
 
In response we’re exploring alternative WAN technologies. Procurement and development of any new network solution requires significant investment, which as a licenced monopoly funded by industry, we cannot independently approve. We are consulting with industry on our long-term connectivity approach and developing the underpinning business cases for DESNZ approval.
 
I hope the above information is of use to you, and we are very sorry that at this time we are unable to provide our network to your constituents.
---

So, given the requirement for “significant investment” and the fact that they’re “consulting with industry on our long-term connectivity approach”, I’m guessing a lot of Scots will not be getting a fully-functioning smart meter by the cut-off date for RTS.

• 11 October Ovo reach out to arrange my smart meter tariff. Was told engineer would be in touch to arrange date for meter replacement. Yay!
• No call from engineer.
• Called 18 October to see where we were. Was told would receive call from engineer week beginning 21 October. Yay!
• No call from engineer.
• Called complaints dept at Ovo. My Advanced Resolution Specialist  unavailable. Was told I’d get a call-back within 48 hrs. Yay!
• No call-back from Advanced Resolution Specialist.
• 11 November. No call from engineer. No call-back from Advanced Resolution Specialist . No progress since 11 October.

Seriously Ovo!?

Energy smart meter issues creating north-south divide

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq52382zd1no

​@monster9 I found a Smart Meter Engineer for ya! Please wait and he’ll try to swing by for a question you had.

​@Lukepeniket_OVO the question being asked was how many RTS upgrades an engineer can do in a day. Question asked at the link below in case it helps (direct to comment)

Hey all,

In my teams no more than 4 MultiRate MultiMeter setups would be doable in a day. I'm sure 5 could be but with travel this is unlikely.

I did have a quick scout through and we won't install a smart meter in dumb under any circumstances in OVO at current. If there is no WAN we will invoke the install and leave process with the DCC and are just currently getting meters preloaded with E7 tariff to support these installations with no wan.

​@Lukepeniket_OVO , thanks so much for all your input today.
  

This is what we’d gathered. There have been, though, a few cases where this has happened but the ALCS was either not configured (i.e. never switching) or set to the wrong times (e.g. E10 instead of E7 and vice versa) - I think.

Can the engineer (a) see the ALCS calendar and/or (b) change it if there’s no WAN?

Supplementary: in some cases (again, I think) we’ve seen the ALCS switching at the advertised times, i.e. not delayed by the randomized offset, so the first few minutes of alleged offpeak time are clocking on the peak register. Is this possible? Can the ALCS calendar be set to, say, on ten minutes after the advertised times and off five minutes before?

I say I think, because it’s often not easy to get precise details via forum posts :( 

For our smart we are currently getting in they are preprogrammed to 0000-0700, I'm unsure if the offsets are there for load management but if the meter is energising it's off-peak it should only do this with the programmed tariff times down to the meter and record accordingly. We should never have a smart turning the off peak on whilst remaining on on peak tariff. 

Also we are just now getting these meters so they would have been tested in the lab in Bristol so should be 110% ready for thr field.

No we absolutely unfortunately can't change anything on site as its predone via the config list when being manufactured and updated with OVO certs, these can obviously be changed remotely via Over the air updates.

Thanks again, Luke. Bang went your day off!
 

SMETS2 says they should be, but who knows!
  

That’s what I thought, so it’s good to get that confirmed. I suppose that means that any change - e.g. to load management - in a no-WAN situation would involve a meter exchange. In 2026, perhaps ...  

Update…

My “Advanced Resolution Specialist” appears to have given up the ghost.

He just called me to say, in effect, he cannot get me a meter, there’s nothing he can do, it’s out of his control, he’s very very sorry - and then effectively washed his hands of it.

I don’t see much advanced resolution taking place here, to be perfectly honest.
He’s now passing it on to some other Team, apparently.

It has taken him around a month to even call me.

I have absolutely no faith that anything will happen.

Who exactly is running this Ovo ship? They should hang their head in shame.
 

Hey ​@monster9 

I’m really sorry to hear this. I can understand your frustration

If the advanced resolution team are unable to resolve your issue it can be escalated further. You can find out more about our full complaints procedure here.

 

So… in a letter from Ovo received today…

“OVO has advised that it will not install a Smart meter in an area without WAN”

But…

Energy suppliers are legally obligated under the Smart Meter Implementation Programme to take "all reasonable steps" to offer and install smart meters to customers when requested. This obligation applies irrespective of whether the meter can initially operate in smart mode. Refusing to install a smart meter in my home, even in traditional mode, constitutes a failure by Ovo to meet this obligation. The legal obligation to install a smart meter does not depend on the immediate availability of WAN connectivity.

Ombudsman then Ofgem, I reckon.

Keep us posted with how you get on ​@monster9. It might help other customers in a similar situation. I hope you manage to get this resolved as soon as possible.