@Transparent OK thanks for the explanation.

Guess we will have to wait until an OVO engineer can look into the problem.

Well at the moment we’re just waiting until @Alice_OVO finds out I’ve tagged her!

Like most of the Moderator Team, she knows her way around Customer Services. They have two levels of gurus who work on issues that are deeper than can be addressed by the ones who first answer the phones. That’s why I think this issue needs to be addressed by someone in Tier-3.

Ideally they should then have a look at the CCDB too.

I just thought I would show you the location of my electric SMART meter.

You can see where the wooden cabinet was in fact I am going to decorate it this weekend. I have already bought the plaster and have some leftover paint, wallpaper and coving from before !

As you can see there shouldn't really be a problem with the WAN signal to OVO as I would think that double glazing is quite transparent to mobile signals.

Finally as you look at the picture, there is a wall facing the meter on the right hand side which is an internal wall only 4 inches thick and my IHD is located only around 2 metres from that wall and there's no problem with the WiFi signal as on my IHD I always get 3 bars meaning a strong signal.

Thanks @MikeE - photos are always helpful here on the Forum.

Just two observations:

1: Your IHD doesn’t connect using WiFi. That would compromise the security of the SMETS system. It actually uses the same 2.4GHz frequency, but a protocol called ZigBee. Without the correct software key, you can’t connect another device into a ZigBee installation.

2: It would be great if we could dictate the direction in which the Wide Area Network signals left our Smart Meter, but alas it is not so. Unless you knew that the active/nearest Telefonica mast happened to lie in that direction, we can’t tell if the window glass has any bearing on the issue. The GSM signals might just as well be going from the back of your meter and through the wall!

@Transparent Thanks.

I googled ZigBee. It is kind of WiFi but secure as you said.

I don't think the signal from my meter would go through the wall as surely the installer would have had a very low signal when installing my SMART meters or do they not do these checks on installation?

Also that is my boundary wall with my neighbour and that wall is even thicker around 2 foot so I doubt the signal would get through at all !

This is the first time in 14 months that the WAN light sequencing has changed to 7 successive flashes indicating loss of signal.

I have had a few issues with my SMART meters but I think this is down to software issues and OVO migrating their SMART metering system to another system and this is borne out by many other OVO customers on this forum having problems with missing data on their IHD's and other issues.

It may be true that I would have less issues by having a MESH system fitted on installation but it wasn't my decision to make !

I assume that MESH uses an aerial of some kind or a booster of some sort ?

Oh the Installer has no choice but to do a signal strength measurement. The Communications Hub automatically performs this during the first minute of power-up and uses the 5 indicators to show the result! Neat huh?!

The direction of the Wide Area Network transmitter could indeed be directly through the wall behind the meter. These photons are not too dissimilar to catholics during a coronavirus crisis - in that they have no mass.

That may look to you like a 2-foot solid wall, but at the sub-atomic level it has 10³ more holes than a slice of jahlsberg.

If, however, I were to put a sheet of aluminium foil insulation between the Comms Hub and the Telefonica transmitter, then there will be distortion and reflection of the signal because metals have free electrons. Non-metallic solids are akin to Belarus and Russia - they exhibit no free elections because they’re held in place by a rigid structure.

True - it’s not your choice to have a SKU2 with a Mesh. But that’s why I’m asking @Alice_OVO to run this past the 3rd Tier of CS colleagues who can check the CCDB for us. Of course this map will also show the location of your nearest transmitter and where others in your neighbourhood have a Mesh network.

There are bound to be instances where a change in local topological circumstances affect the WAN signal. Perhaps this is one of those.

Equally the issue could be a software upgrade that “went wrong”. I had this occur a year ago when I had an agreement with OVO that they could run test code-updates on my site. Several worked fine. But as soon as there was an update which pranged the WAN, it was game over. Without a connection to the National Smart Meter Network, it’s no longer possible to send a piece of code to correct the error!

To address the problem an engineer has to visit the site and replace the offending hardware.

So I did a search for Telefonica transmitters and found a site which appears to show them in your area. Does this tally with your local knowledge @MikeE ?

The tricky bit is that I can’t see a function by which I can be sure that these masts are actually part of the Telefonica network, as opposed to other GSM providers.

As it’s based on entries from contributors, may I suggest that others go to the site, check their own geographical area and then start sending in local data to the site.

Thanks for that post as I regularly go past a transmitter on my way to my local Texaco garage.

The mast is only a short distance from my house.

It matches one of the locations highlighted on your map.

It must be one of those Telefonica masts you mentioned.

Significant in what way ?

Communication issues like I am experiencing now i.e. if I had had standard kit fitted (Toshiba Comms Hubs) maybe these problems wouldn't arise ?

@mikestanley464 Very true. It may be that Toshiba kit is better at maintaining a signal than Honeywell kit (which I have fitted)

Do you have Honeywell kit fitted at your address ?

I happened to read an OVO article, namely, https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/smart-meter-troubleshooting and it mentions that if a customer is having ongoing communication problems, OVO can send out some kit to boost the signal, maybe an aerial of some sort ?

"I have a smart meter but I’m getting estimated bills

If you’re getting estimated readings for gas and/or electricity on your OVO statements, it could mean that we’ve lost connection with your electricity meter – either via WAN (Wide Area Network), or both WAN and HAN (Home Area Network). 

If there's an issue, please call us and we can go through a meter health check. We'll either reset your meter remotely or send you some kit to help boost the signal"

Good points @MikeE … except that the page you’ve quoted from on OVO’s website dates back to the SMETS1 meters manufactured by Secure.

There is no signal repeater within the SMETS2 specifications.

I just wanted to clarify that before @mikestanley464 starts investigating the hardware installed at his location.

@Transparent Fair enough m8 

I don't mean to post misleading advice!

Is it possible to turn a SKU1 into a SKU2 by fitting the Mesh hardware and go on to a MESH network to get better connectivity?

It’s not your misleading advice @MikeE - it’s that someone at OVO should’ve re-visited that page to update it once they started installing SMETS2 meters!

If it transpires that

a: you should have a Mesh network, and that

b: there are sufficient other installations in your locality to enable it to be configured

then it’s a simple matter of an Engineer replacing the Communications Hub. Let’s wait for OVO to answer those questions first.

@Transparent Thanks for your feedback 

My goodness this is a big thread. 

I am happy to raise this and try and get info for those with technical expertise in the area. I’ve just lost the question. Let’s have a recap and simplify this a bit. It might help me when I come round to working out if this needs to be split out. 

What can’t we find using the best answer? What do we need clarity on? 

@Transparent I’ll raise the question of Mike’s activity history now updating correctly with Insided. I hope this isn’t systematic of a wider issue.  

Just to add something to the thread, for the last couple of months my gas daily standing charge (27.4p) doesn't show on my IHD.

The gas usage does though.

I do, of course, still pay it as it is billed at the end of the month.

I do like smart meters, I just wish they would work.

Having said that I had trouble with my smart meters when I was with Scottish Power!

Thanks @MikeE - I’m going to use this comment, editing as I go, to create a list of questions I need to take away. Fort example:

Q: Why is daily gas standing charge not showing on IHD. Should it? 

Q: Why is Mike’s WAN indicator displaying a fast-flash error and is this coincident with the meter readings having not been updated online since 12th August?

@Tim_OVO When I first had my Chameleon IHD it used to show both gas and electricity daily standing charge at 29p on each energy source which I assume is 27.4p + 5% VAT which is 28.77p which is rounded up to 29p ?

So just after midnight 58p used to show on my IHD.

Only the electricity daily standing charge shows now.

It's not a problem as such, I just mentioned it as you probably want all the issues that I am experiencing so that you can resolve the problem.

Are you saying that daily standing charges are not supposed to show on my IHD ?

I can't remember whether they used to show on my IHD when I was with Scottish Power last year.

Can I join in?

Q2: Why is @MikeE’s WAN indicator displaying a fast-flash error?

Q3: Is this coincident with the meter readings having not been updated online since 12th August?

and only after we have those answers can we progress towards any discussion of re-checking the CCDB and a Mesh network. It could simply be an error in the Comms Hub software. I wonder if there was an upgrade applied on 13th August?

@Transparent I think it was something to do with the WAN light flashing fast and going out of sequence as when I noticed this, I checked out the OVO app and this is when I noticed that my daily energy usage wasn't updating.

I couldn't really miss it as my electric meter is right by my front door and since removing the box that was enclosing it, it's really easy to see the meter lights !

Just curious that if it was an update that went wrong then surely the software (SW) light would also flash faster than normal and be out of sequence like the WAN light ?

Well, I’m not sure what it is that triggers the SW indicator to produce a medium flash.

The SW fast-flash occurs when it has attempted to reboot to resolve an issue, but that the reboot has itself failed.

I’ve had software upgrades which caused my Comms Hub to lose the WAN connection and yet the SW LED remained at the usual slow-flash rate.

@Transparent OK  

Thanks both, @MikeE I’ve passed these two questions onto our smart ‘subject matter expert’. I’ll post back here when I get a reply. 

What about the two questions I added later @Tim_OVO ?

They’re part of the same investigation.

Scrub that… I’ve just noticed you’ve merged what we wrote. Doh!