Thanks Tim

Just a last minute entry, I should have thought of it before !

When I change to hourly readings I can see that the link was lost around 1.30am on 13th August on the electricity side as the 1.30am  half hour reading was never displayed:

That might be the time at which your Communications Hub was polled to pick up the data for the previous day.

The Retrieve Data command used to be sent shortly after midnight. Now that the installed base of Smart Meters is much larger, I guess the data is collected over a longer period of time.

Currently OVO’s Billing System only initiates one connection per day. I don’t know whether there’s a “network charge” for each occasion a SMETS Command gets sent across the National Smart Meter Network. But in any case, that’s why we can never see “live” usage data on the App.

@Transparent I did wonder why the data was always (up to) 24 hours out of date !

I expect there is a charge of some sort as it is,  after all, data and all data networks charge the end user in this case OVO Energy.

Cheers 

This is one of the questions I put the Kaluza representatives here last month.

The Kaluza Platform (distributed storage network control) is making decisions on which loads and sources to switch on/off based on the wholesale price of electricity per minute.

For the V2G Trial they are sending charger commands via the internet. But this is nowhere near as secure as the National Smart Meter Network operated by the Data Communications Company (DCC).

The cost of using DCC’s channel must be low enough to handle all future transactions to in-home smart devices, otherwise we leave the UK’s domestic energy supply open to attack from hostile (foreign) agents. That’s why GCHQ were involved in the development of the encryption used for our SMETS2 meter commands.

@Transparent "That’s why GCHQ were involved in the development of the encryption used for our SMETS2 meter commands."

Crikey !

I have another query if you don't mind.

If the daily connection fails (for whatever reason) can the next day connection restore all the available data ?

I think it can as sometimes when an issue is sorted, my daily energy usage sorts itself out but at other times the daily energy usage is just equally shared over the number of days that the connection was lost.

I don't really understand why this system only works some of the time when smart meters can store up to 13 months of usage data.

I read this somewhere but forgot to save the link. Doh!

I’ve read specs where a Smart Meter manufacturer has claimed their product can store 50 days or 90 days of usage data. This is usually quoted on the assumption that these will be half-hourly (HH) readings.

I presume that figure is “per tariff” because the specification requirement for these meters is that they must be able to directly handle at least 4 different tariffs across the day (not just two tariffs, as would be required for Economy-7).

The “feature” you’re seeing where data gets spread evenly across the number of days for which your Smart Meter wasn’t being polled, is an anomaly of OVO’s new Billing System. If you notice, it applies this only to gas readings. Electricity usage is allocated correctly to the relevant day once communication is re-established.

@Transparent Yes you are right, the electricity usage puts itself right so I assume that the electricity side of things has some sort of 'memory' where as with the gas 30 minute reading, for whatever reason, if the data isn't available at the time, it is lost as there's no way to save the data ?

You really know your stuff mate ;

Not quite… OVO collects all the available HH Usage Data when connection to your Comms Hub is re-established. You can view this for both electricity and gas if you use the Day-View on your Online Account.

But if you look at my Monthly histogram, you’ll see that OVO didn’t collect gas data for 25th. So the combined total for 25-26th has been apportioned across both days of the weekend.

This anomaly in the Billing Software will need fixing at some point because the Calorific Value (CV) of gas varies slightly each day. It’s not serious because the possible error is still less than 0.005%, but this will change as our Gas Distribution Network (GDN) is permitted to take more bio-gas into the mix.

Yes, I “know my stuff”… principally because I’m a member of my local Transition Towns group where we get to discuss all sorts of energy-related matters. It’s through TT that I’ve collected the contact details for a few useful engineers in the UK Energy Industry. I use those selectively to explain how something works or where I can find sources of information

@Transparent I didn't know that the calorific value changes from day to day (albeit by a minute amount)

I have heard of CV as it is used to calculate the gas bill.

I also didn't know that bio-gas will be added in the future.

This is probably something to do with going 'green'

We’ve been discussing CV data elsewhere on the Forum.

Six months back we were looking at how this affects the accuracy of Bills.

And before that I showed how CV gets calculated within the kWh readings used on our bills.

Bio-gas is a good way of using energy from our food waste. But it still produces CO2 when burned in our homes. A bio-digester must add Propane to the mix, to ensure the CV is above 37MJ/Kg before it can be introduced to the main.

There are proposals to use Hydrogen. But on its own that has a CV of just 12MJ/Kg.

Worcester-Bosch are manufacturing “Hydrogen-ready” boilers in anticipation of this event occurring.

OK thanks for the explanation.

Guess we will have to wait until an OVO engineer can look into the problem.

"Thanks for taking the time to contact us, and for completing the smart meter health check. I have raised this with the smart team to investigate, and they will be in touch with in the next 10 working days so on or before the 11th September with the next steps."

I am hoping that OVO reset my WAN connection when 11th September arrives !

I have almost given up with smart meters (it's a pity they weren't as reliable as smartphones) and if nothing is done, I have decided to just give monthly meter readings like I used to do before.

It's just that I had problems when I was with ScottishPower on a SMETS1 meter.

I thought that with a SMETS2 meter, my problems would be sorted but the problem is just as bad !

This will be the S2 team that I mentioned. They’re best placed to try some back end fixes. HOWEVER, I can’t find my comment outlining that I had it passed onto them. I’m very confused. When looking at your activity history, @MikeE it also doesn’t seem to be working correctly. With every comment you made on this topic showing as 18 hours ago. I have raised this with Insided, the platform provider. 

I am glad you included the word *almost* - I can understand if you have battle fatigue with these issues. But your contributions here, when combined with the work of our S2 team, will help us work out what is the cause of this, and the best fix. 

Let’s see what happens this week…..

@Tim_OVO I just let off a bit of steam lol

I don't mind giving monthly meter readings if my smart meters just won't work as it's no problem now as I got rid of the box that my gas meter was in to try and help with my HAN signal.

Before I had to take the lid off and move my router when I wanted to take a meter reading.

I have moved my router a few feet so I don't have that problem anymore.

Fingers crossed that it will work again if not no worries it is what it is !

It's not the end of the World :)

Router?

What router?

Are we talking about an internet/WiFi connection?

@Tim_OVO Your comment is still in this thread at the top of this page in fact !

"Thanks both, @MikeE I’ve passed these two questions onto our smart ‘subject matter expert’. I’ll post back here when I get a reply. "

@Transparent Sorry for not explaining myself !

I wanted to switch to a smart meter system because I used to have to move my Sky router which was on top of the cupboard lid that enclosed my gas meter.

I am not that bothered about taking monthly meter readings now that I have got rid of the cupboard (including lid) and moved my Sky router a few feet from where the meter is situated as I suspect having my Sky router so close to my gas smart meter wasn't a good idea ?!

Yes I was talking about an internet/WiFi connection and nothing to do with my smart meter problem.

Ah… that was tricky for me to understand. My intuition took me along the path of assuming we were discussing some radio-wave interference between the router and the Comms Hub.

It didn’t occur to me that the router was sat on top of the old meter cupboard!

There’s a Westcountry tale with a similar twist:

A hiker was walking down a country road when he looked over a 5-bar gate. He was pleasantly surprised to see a farmer sitting on a 3-legged stool, milking a cow by hand.

“Good afternoon,” hailed the hiker.

“A’ernoon!” grunted the farmer.

“I wonder,” continued the hiker, “if you happened to know what time it is?”

“Aye,” said the farmer, placing his hand beneath the cow’s udder and raising it. “It be a quarter t’ four.”

“That’s amazing,” the hiker exclaimed. “You can tell the time by weighing up how much milk is still in the udder!”

“If ee say zo,” remarked the farmer. “But I fin’ it better t’ see yon church clock if I lifts t’udder out t’ way firz!”

Well my problem still hasn't been resolved. The WAN light is still flashing 7 times in high frequency mode indicating that the link has been broken and I haven't had a reply since sending the smart meter health check and the 10 working day deadline has now passed.

From now on I will just give OVO monthly meter readings on the last day of each month and they will have to go by my meter readings unless they still send out meter readers who report back to OVO with the actual meter readings ?!

I think that meter readings have now stopped to save money and what's the point in having them with the rollout of smart meters (when they work!)

I wasn’t expecting anything to change until we had a response via @Tim_OVO for the questions he forwarded to the (very) technical team.

And I don’t think Tim is around today because there’s other stuff been posted which he would normally have responded to.

The fact that the WAN indicator isn’t changing from its error state is actually good news. We’d be in a more tricky situation if the symptoms were erratic. It’s much easier to diagnose faults when they’re stable.

@Transparent I don't have much patience as you can probably tell !

It's just that the entire time I have had smart meters I have had problems !

I was with Scottish Power for just over 2 years and I had constant problems which were never resolved and to top it all their customer service was terrible.

Good customer service is one of the reasons I moved to OVO.

I don't regret moving despite the smart meter problems that I have had since joining OVO last July.

I just don't think that smart meters use reliable technology as it isn't just me that has had problems, this forum is full of customers with similar problems.

At least there's some good news as you said that the error state is stable !

A further note and that's my LAN connection is stable as I still have my IHD displaying energy usage which hasn't always been the case as I sometimes used to get a "waiting for current data" message !

@MikeE this is probably not helpful for you, as you’ve done these meter health checks already. But I’ve just posted a full tutorial guide on these SMETS2 smart meter health checks. Check it out here 

I wonder if you could just have a read, make sure there’s nothing new there for you to check and do, and then let us know. 

There’s also a new SMETS2 IHD tutorial guide for you to look at.

Probably not the solution in your case, but worth a look I’d say. 

:) 

Also wasn’t today the day you were hearing from our S2 team….?

The guides are well presented…

… but I’ve already concluded that the issue which @MikeE is facing is a clear WAN error, and can’t be addressed any better by the level of help we can provide between us on the Forum. We need engineering support with access to the data and the CCDB map.

My current list of likely possibilities is:

• a software upgrade has gone wrong and lost the WAN connection
• there’s a fault at the only Telefonica transmitter which Mike’s Comms Hub can connect to
• there’s a localised change to the transmission route, possibly someone installing foil-based insulation

And there’s still a possible workaround by changing the Comms Hub for an SKU2 so there’s a Mesh network option available. Let’s remember that this location is in the Welsh valleys.

@Tim_OVO I have read your articles and I did follow your instructions, in fact I saw a lot of meter data that I mostly didn't understand mainly on the electric meter !

I did come across "Tariff 000000" on the electric meter and I am wondering if this is right as surely they shouldn't be all zeros ?

Today should have been the day I heard from the team that I sent my answers to regarding the smart meter health check.

I know you asked a few questions to your expert team on my behalf but I am not sure when you will hear from them.