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Aclara SMETS2 smart meter communication hub lights - What do the flashing sequences indicate?

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Transparent
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Don’t worry about Tariff 00000 on the electricity meter (ESME) display @MikeE 

A SMETS2 meter must be capable of supporting at least 4 separate tariffs, although we tend to just use one or two (Economy-7 being the 2nd one). You’ve just scrolled the menu through to one of the unused tariff slots.

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The guides are well presented…

… but I’ve already concluded that the issue which @MikeE is facing is a clear WAN error, and can’t be addressed any better by the level of help we can provide between us on the Forum. We need engineering support with access to the data and the CCDB map.

My current list of likely possibilities is:

  • a software upgrade has gone wrong and lost the WAN connection
  • there’s a fault at the only Telefonica transmitter which Mike’s Comms Hub can connect to
  • there’s a localised change to the transmission route, possibly someone installing foil-based insulation

And there’s still a possible workaround by changing the Comms Hub for an SKU2 so there’s a Mesh network option available. Let’s remember that this location is in the Welsh valleys.

I just wanted to say that in the 14 months I have been with OVO this is the first time that I have had a WAN error. 

I used to regularly get HAN errors where the IHD lost the connection and I used to see the "waiting for current data" error message !

In fact I am amazed that my IHD is still working !

I would be interested in getting a SKU2 upgrade but I am wondering if there are enough people available in my area as I think that @Transparent mentioned that I would need to be in a small network for it to work !?

Like you say it could just be a software upgrade that has gone wrong and if so a resetting of the connection should restore things back to normal ?

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*edited by mod*

 

@Transparent Thanks for explaining the tariff 000000 reading :)

Transparent
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I think we need to be less concerned about the previous range of errors affecting your IHD. Even if these were caused by software bugs, they could be resolved by sending upgrades “over the air”.

The issue with the WAN connection is far more serious because:

  • it prevents OVO being able to obtain your meter readings
  • it prevents any more software upgrades being sent to you, so unless this turns out to be a problem with Telefonica’s equipment, you’re going to need a site visit.

Although the Forum Moderators can directly access the engineers, they are not from a technical background. So I wouldn’t expect them to work through the logic in the way that some of us can!

That’s why I keep reading what you post and then defining it in clear, technically-correct language!

And, by the way, WNC don’t supply an SKU2 Comms Hub. So if this needs changing, you’d get one made by Toshiba.

You wrote: this has got me thinking as to why a SKU2 wasn't fitted on the installation date

Me too!

This is why I’m asking that the engineers check the CCDB map, which shows the transmitter range for your area. It’s still the case that the vast majority of customers will need a SKU1. However, if I flip the argument around and try to imagine where in GB I might be likely to find a greater proportion of SKU2s, then the Welsh valleys would be high on my list!

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@Transparent So a WAN error is pretty terminal as there is no way to reestablish the link other than an engineer visit. I didn't know that !

No wonder why my WAN connection wasn't reset. Now I know why.

When you say that the Welsh valleys would be high on your list is that because of a (generally) poor signal ?

My area isn't all that hilly if that makes a difference, in fact it's quite flat really !

 

@Transparent "This is why I’m asking that the engineers check the CCDB map, which shows the transmitter range for your area."

If the engineers check my area and it comes back as a poor signal area, do you know if that would mean I am eligible for a SKU2 upgrade ?

Transparent
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Yes, it’s most likely that a WAN fault is terminal.

It does rather depend on why the WAN indicator has entered this state. There is a small possibility that the transceiver section is still “live” and that WNC have left themselves a strategy whereby the software can be restarted via a remote command. But if there really is no connection to the Telefonica Network, then no commands can get through.

We have to remember that the companies supplying this smart metering equipment are all highly reputable. Their hardware and software has been through extensive testing by 3rd parties before it is certificated for connection to the National Smart Meter Network.

So if a piece of essential communications has failed several months after installation, then this isn’t due to any lack of expertise and diligence on the part of the manufacturers. If the design was problematic by nature, then it would never have got as far as being installed on your site.

 

Whilst I don’t know your exact post-code, it isn’t possible to appraise just your particular location and decide whether there is the signal strength for you to use an SKU1 Comms Hub. There’s more to it than that.

A SKU2 Comms Hub not only has Mesh capability, but the internal WAN transceiver can be supplemented with an external aerial. You can see photographs of the T1 & T2 types on the new Smart Meter Health Check tutorial. There are also two types of T3 aerials, but they don’t get fitted by OVO.

Until an engineer has revisited the CCDB map, we can’t tell if your SKU1 is still deemed satisfactory, nor whether a SKU2 would resolve the issue we’re now discussing.

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@Transparent "Until an engineer has revisited the CCDB map, we can’t tell if your SKU1 is still deemed satisfactory, nor whether a SKU2 would resolve the issue we’re now discussing."

 

@Tim_OVO has recently raised a concern with the expert team. If they were asked to check out the CCDB  map, would they be willing to do this ?

 

I am gutted that I didn't have a SKU2 unit installed as I read your comment about an external aerial that could be fitted to boost the WAN signal 😥 

Transparent
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@MikeE wrote: If they were asked to check out the CCDB  map, would they be willing to do this ?

Certainly they would. As it appears you’re likely to need a site visit, I can’t see OVO sending an engineer to your house without first checking the CCDB to establish what equipment he’ll need!

Equally, if the CCDB reveals (for example) that Telefonica switched off the transmitter you were connected to on 13th August, then you probably won’t need a site visit at all!

 

I am gutted that I didn't have a SKU2 unit installed as I read your comment about an external aerial that could be fitted to boost the WAN signal

:joy: So it’s a good job I haven’t mentioned the SKU3 then?!

Seriously… you don’t get any “better service” by having an SKU2. It’s a matter of having the correct unit for your location.

Something happened on 13th August which fatally changed the connectivity of your site. Until an engineer can track that down I’m sure they won’t be discussing a different type of SKU.

All SMETS2 meters are connected to the same National Smart Meter Network. Have you yet spoken to any of your immediate neighbours to see if they too have SMETS2 installations and whether their WAN connections are operational?

Do you yet know if any of them have an SKU2 Comms Hub?

 

Please remember that the entire world can see this discussion. They may not all be posting comments here, but I can assure you that this Topic hasn’t reached over 800 “views” from just @Tim_OVO, you and I!

There’s a lot of interest out there. :slight_smile:

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@Transparent I don't think that the World is watching this topic, it's just that the same forum members are checking out any new posts when they get email notifications. That's what I do anyway :)

 

As far as I know there is no transmitter fault as it would come up on https://www.o2.co.uk/coveragechecker also I have no problems with my 4G signal and neither do my neighbours.

 

I have googled it and there are only 4 network operators in the UK and all other operators 'piggyback' on them (as you know)

 

In my case I am with Sky Mobile which uses the O2 network and as O2 is part of the Telefonica group I know that the mast at the bottom of my street by the 24 hour garage is a Telefonica mast as it is on that O2 network link above.

 

I think that it is more likely to be a software update that went wrong as I get a fair 4G signal in my house (2 bars) and outside in my garden I get 4 bars which is the most I can get on a S9+

 

When I type my postcode into that link I get this:

 

 

As you can see from the postcode result, I get a good signal at my address. My address is the A and the other marker is the Telefonica mast.

Incidentally the mast that I was on about is displayed in my screenshot.

I just thought of a question as you will probably know the answer and I don't know why I didn't think of it before !

You said that smartmeters use the zigbee (secure) network well do they put these transmitters on the mast in question if not I don't know how it works?

I have a theory about zigbee using Telefonica (which is a Spanish company) as I think they bought out BT at some stage and this explains  the network coverage ?

Transparent
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I agree @MikeE - that coverage looks good from the O2 mast. Bear in mind, however, that the Smart Meter signals are separate from other GSM communications, even though they use a modification of the 3G system and share the same frequencies.

The ZigBee signal used for your Home Area Network has nothing to do with Telefonica. It’s operating with a range of 100m (max) from your Communications Hub. The power level is very low… probably no more than 0.1W.

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@Transparent I am confused as you did earlier on in this thread mention Telefonica ?

If zigbee only has a range of around 100 metres then what method does zigbee use if it doesn't use the Telefonica network ?

Jequinlan
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@MikeE  : Telephonica (o2) is how the devices communicate to the billing system, zigbee (secure and short range) is how the IHD communicates to the hub (meter)

John Quinlan
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@Jequinlan I understand now. Cheers :)

Transparent
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The Zigbee network in your home is intended to operate with a growing number of smart devices which can be triggered by signals sent from your Comms Hub. It’s not just the IHD and the SMETS2 Gas Meter which will be attached to it.

The software in each Comms Hub also has a feature called Auxiliary Load Control Switches. You can read more about that over here on the SMETS2 Installation Topic.

The network protocols are assigned and controlled by the Zigbee Alliance, an independent organisation which maintains the standard. This enables 3rd-party manufacturers to produce smart white-goods, knowing that they are capable of being paired with your Comms Hub should you choose to do so.

For reasons I don’t yet understand, Kaluza has decided to avoid using the ALCS system to send commands to devices controlled by their Flex Platform. Instead they have developed an encrypted/secure protocol which operates across the internet. Even so, their protocols have been developed in consultation with the National Cyber Security Centre (the “public” arm of GCHQ).

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Yes, it’s most likely that a WAN fault is terminal.

It does rather depend on why the WAN indicator has entered this state. There is a small possibility that the transceiver section is still “live” and that WNC have left themselves a strategy whereby the software can be restarted via a remote command. But if there really is no connection to the Telefonica Network, then no commands can get through.

It's just a waiting game now !

I know that the Telefonica mast that I have mentioned is working as yesterday I took a short walk (as I had to get some stuff from the 24 hour garage) and the signal strength gradually got stronger from around-79 dB in the vicinity of my house to around -45 dB when I was only a few metres away from the mast under signal strength.

 

I just hope you are right about WNC  being able to send a remote command to restore the link without the need to send out an engineer.

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Just to say that I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get a reply from the smart meter health check.

I just hope this problem can get resolved as I didn't get anywhere with Scottish Power as they didn't resolve my problem either when I was with them and they ignored my emails as well.

I may have to think about changing supplier when my contract is up next July.

I wish I hadn't got rid of the meter cupboards as the meters are both eyesores and I am not any better off as I still have to give manual meter readings.

I first reported this smart meter problem over a month ago and apart from feedback here on the forum I haven't heard anything from 'official' channels so I have no idea if anything has been done or whether my request is just been ignored.

Even if the Covid19 situation is hampering home visits (if I do indeed need one) it would be nice to have feedback.

Customer service is very important to me and is why I am still with Sky after more than 20 years and why I have recently moved to Sky mobile (from EE) because I have found Sky customer service to be first class.

I have just read a few posts on here and not many smart meter problems seem to get resolved.

Transparent
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@MikeEwrote: “I have just read a few posts on here and not many smart meter problems seem to get resolved.”

That’s an interesting observation. There have been a number of Smart Meter topics to which I have input a substantial contribution. The discussion then goes silent.

In a few cases I’ve followed up the situation with the original complainant in a Private Message. The usual response has been “No one contacted me from OVO, but it suddenly started working OK. I didn’t really have anything I could report back on the Forum”.

I’m becoming convinced that the lack of contact/acknowledgement from OVO staff who solve the issues is having a detrimental effect on the customer-base.

Assuming that @Tim_OVO, @Amy_OVO, @Ed_OVO and the rest of the Moderator Team are going to read this… it’s important to us that when we expend significant time and effort here on the Forum in helping to diagnose what the fault is, that CS do at least provide the complainant with a basic response to say what they’ve done to resolve it.

If CS can’t even be bothered to recontact the customer to say what they’ve done and ask politely if all is now working, then the inevitable result is that customers won’t renew their contracts.

The feedback is every bit as important as CS having arrived at a solution.

 

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@Transparent Yes both you and @Tim_OVO have been very responsive to my problem and, in your particular case, you have spent a lot of time going into detail about the inner workings of how the smart meter system(s) work and I have found your technical information interesting, yes I am a geek 🤓 lol

 

@Tim_OVO sent the expert team a set of questions a while ago with no feedback and with the smart meter health check team not responding either, I am beginning to think that customers smart meter problems (perhaps other problems like billing etc) take a back burner.

 

I just hope I am wrong but I do know that OVO got fined last year for incorrect billing between 2015 and 2018 so it is obvious that it's in OVO's interests that they fix the problems they have with their smart meters !

 

From the OFCOM article it says:

"The regulator claims Ovo was aware of the problems, did not self-report the majority of the issues and was slow to put things right"

 

Has anything really changed ?

 

Also this topic has been marked SOLVED, well it hasn't been solved !

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I have had enough I have been making enquiries about switching suppliers.

I know I have to pay 2 x £30 in exit fees but I am not bothered about that. Just waiting now for responses to my emails which should take around 2 working days.

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I am moving to NPower. They said they will try and get my existing SMETS2 meters working with their systems.

If they can't get it working they will fit me 2 new smart meters.

I have enjoyed the technical chat on here but won't be posting any more.

Adios 

Transparent
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Thanks for letting us know @MikeE 

You don’t lose your Forum membership by no longer being an OVO customer. You could still ask anything you want here even after you’ve had NPower sort out the meters.

@Tim_OVO- I hope you can mark up this Topic in orange highlighter and shove it across Adrian’s desk!

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@Transparent I didn't know that I could continue to be a forum member even when I am no longer an OVO customer.

I thought that my membership would be cancelled !

I have had my say now and in future if I am still allowed to post on here I will not be posting any anti-OVO comments as I don't see the point.

 

By the way who is Adrian 😆 ?

Transparent
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There’s no problem with you remaining an active user here. Two of the Ninjas (SuperUsers) aren’t actually OVO customers!

There’s some interesting technology coming along in a couple of Trials during the next six months (Air-source heat pumps and PV-driven Storage batteries, both controlled remotely by the Kaluza Flex Platform). You can still enter discussions about these and keep your geek certification alive. :sunglasses:

Kaluza is operated as an entirely separate Division so that this technology can be licensed to Energy Suppliers other than just OVO. There’s nothing preventing NPower licensing this technology for their customers.

 

Adrian is someone within OVO who would be able to knock heads together when he finds out why you didn’t receive responses!

By the way, when you switch suppliers there’s a minimum 14-day cooling-off period stipulated by the Financial Services Act. So if OVO got their act together and resolved your reported issues really quick, you could reappraise your position accordingly without any penalty.

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@Transparent- that's a coincidence that you mention heat pumps as my girlfriend has one at her flat along with underfloor heating and it costs her a fortune almost £10 a day in electric.

The brand is NIBE which is Scandinavian I think !?

She is also on a prepayment meter.

She wishes she still had her combi boiler.

Regarding OVO sorting out my smart meter problem before 1st October (that's when I am due to move to E.ON) I won't hold my breathe !

As I said before customer service is very important to me and if I have to take a £60 'hit' I will.

I don't know what NPower customer service is like but the woman I spoke to was very keen to resolve my meter problem.

I will still post on here if I am allowed to :)

 

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@Transparent My girlfriend (Lisa) is with United Welsh (a housing association) and it's a joke. 

They have so many different brands and variants that the engineers don't have a clue what they are doing !

Instead of having (say) 2 models of heat pump installed, making it easier for the engineers to learn functionality, no one engineer knows everything about the whole range of heat pumps !

One engineer was sent a few months ago and he didn't have a clue lol

Another thing is Lisa only has 2 room thermostats (one in the living room, the other in the bedroom) and neither work.

This means it is not possible to prevent her flat getting too hot !

The air is always dry and is normally around 25C all year round, even in a heatwave lol

She is looking to move but so far has not found anything suitable.

By the way, it is 'wet' underfloor heating not dry.

One final thing to say is she has 3 solar panels on her roof but we don't think it is working as on a wall module next to the heat pump, there is a sensor flashing and on a particular screen, we can see that the temperature is listed as __ in her loft, where as the temperature is displayed outside so the temperature monitoring isn't working properly and she has been in this situation since last November when she moved in !

The heat pump is complicated (maybe not for you as you understand technical stuff) not to mention massive, it's as big as an American fridge freezer !

At least she only has electricity to pay for as there is no gas supply at her flat.

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