Moving to OVO Economy 10 (with or without storage heaters)
Has anyone successfully moved to Economy 10 with OVO and was your experience?
A few weeks ago I received an email from OVO about the removal of the RTS signal and suggesting I book an appointment to replace my meter. I was a THTC customer so I chose Economy 10 and booked the appointment.
Six days ago the new meter was installed with an In House Display (IHD). The IHD is operating in accordance with the Economy 10 tariff but the meter is supplying power according to Economy 7 times, i.e. power comes to my storage heaters between 01.00 and 07.00 but I am being charged the lower rate at Economy 10 time periods. That means I am being paying the higher rate to charge my storage heaters overnight (and it is getting cold in highland Scotland)
OVO customer support first of all offered to re-program the meter in 6 weeks; they delay because they needed to wait until communication with the meter was established (?). I managed to negotiate them down to making an appointment for a site visit in 2 weeks time.
Tens of thousands of these THTC meters need to be replaced before next June. This is a huge undertaking and my experience indicates the need for a separate help line for follow up support. It has taken me a week and a lot of investigation to get to this stage. My contacts with OVO support via on-line chat have been like wading through treacle. I think OVO need to get on top of this asap because there are very many vulnerable people using the THTC tariff with storage heaters.
An additional complication is that storage heater users have been encouraged to replace old heaters with Dimplex Quantum heaters. The preferred installation uses two power sources - one a 24 hour supply for the heating controls and the other so supply the bricks from off peak. There is a different internal cable setup for a single supply. THTC provides these supplies through two meters. In my ignorance I thought moving to one meter would mean one supply. Apparently the wrongly installed Economy 7 meter provides two supplies.
Does anyone know if Economy 10 is one supply being billed at the different rates depending on time od day. The IHD would tend to support the later as it is happily billing me as per the Economy 10 tariff.
I hope this lengthy post wiil help me and the wider community with your responses.
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I noticed the wireless icon on the IHD is flashing, so not sure but is this wireless capable as i have broadband. It’s just there’s no info at all on how to operate the IHD.
I noticed the wireless icon on the IHD is flashing, so not sure but is this wireless capable as i have broadband. It’s just there’s no info at all on how to operate the IHD.
Quite possibly if you or the engineer linked it. From your photos, it looks like you have an IHD3 which is a Chameleon manufactured device. User guide
Because of changes described in my previous post I expected my off peak supply to come live at 14.30. It didn’t and I am now very confused. I will need to this photo of my meter box to explain what happened.
Working from right to left, I believe the following.
Junction box 1: off peak supply for a) storage heaters b) water heating.
Junction box 2: 24 hr. supplies for c) lights, power points, cooker, etc. d) panel heaters and emersion booster.
Junction box 3: Neutrals. I have two fuse boxes; one for c) and one for a) b) and d).
The device in the bottom corner is a monitor which talks to an energy diverter which controls my solar power.
Following meter replacement devices receiving power from Junction box 2 operated as expected. The storage heaters would only charge overnight at times equivalent to Economy 7.
After 14.30 today I detected a strong current on the live feed to Junction box 1 but no indication that current is flowing to my storage heaters.
My question is: how can a supply which successfully got through Junction box 1 last night and charged one of my storage heaters not do the same today?
FYI this is a photo of the meter cabinet before the change. I am having a go at interpreting the spaghettis and can provide that if necessary. The RTS meter is on the right.
Thanks for the pictures (at last!)
It looks like your interpretation of the cabling to/from the three white junction boxes is correct. The brown line tail from the fifth port on the meter (the one nearest you) leads to the right-most junction box, where it splits in two, one labelled W (for Water, I suppose) and the other ST (for STorage heaters, perhaps). The middle junction box also splits the feed in two, one for each of your 24-hour CUs.
It would have helped if you’d touched button A on the meter before taking the picture to switch the lights on - it’s not easy to read the display. To me, it looks like <1kWh import has been recorded on TOU Rate 2 (which should be the offpeak register). The contactor symbol in the bottom right-hand corner appears to be open, meaning that the switched circuit wasn’t live at the time the picture was taken.
I think there’s something you’ve misunderstood: while communications seem to have been established between the meter and OVO, it may take some time for all the normal configuration stuff to be transmitted - the tariff, for example. I suspect the smart team will wait until it’s settled down completely before attempting the ECAUL request to configure the ALCS, which should then start switching the auxiliary load at the times appropriate to Economy 10.
I’ve no idea, I’m afraid, how your solar power generation fits in to this scenario. @BPLightlog (our resident renewable guru!) may have some ideas. He may know how to explain the left and down quadrant arrows in the bottom left-hand corner ...
It all takes time, I’m afraid, so you may have to be patient a little longer.
Thank you Firedog. In my defense I need to take photo’s with my IPad and email them to myself and then use my laptop to copy them and paste them to this blog. I know!. It is all about being more comfortable using a keyboard.
I don’t remember seeing any thing about being ‘patient’ in OVO documentation. If only they had indicated there would be a delay.
There is a saying, ‘If he had a brain he would be dangerous’. I have and I think I might be.
Cheers
@Crag Thank you - that’s very helpful.
The two switches to the water heater are most probably as I suggested one for the constant supply and the other for the switched supply. Normally, the switched one would be always on, in which case it would only be live during what are supposed to be offpeak hours, when that’s eventually sorted out. The other switch will probably be for a second heating element near the top of the tank, to be used as a booster if you run out of hot water in a peak period. It’s surprising that the electrician who installed the tank didn’t label the switches a bit more clearly.
Have you looked to see whether the left-hand switch lights up overnight? If your meter is turning the switched circuit on during Economy 7 hours, it should be working between 01:00 and 08:00. Have a look tomorrow morning (I noticed you were up and about before 8 this morning!). If it is live then, you could turn the other switch off. You’ll still be paying too much for water heating overnight, but that should come right when the meter’s timings have been sorted out.
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I’ve no idea, I’m afraid, how your solar power generation fits in to this scenario. @BPLightlog (our resident renewable guru!) may have some ideas. He may know how to explain the left and down quadrant arrows in the bottom left-hand corner ...
The solar side looks ok to me - especially if it performed previously. The additional contraption looks at solar production, compares to home usage and diverts extra power to heat water. The main connection point is simply an additional power feed. The arrows simply show the vector information (direction) of the flow, positive or negative
The solar side looks ok to me - especially if it performed previously. The additional contraption looks at solar production, compares to home usage and diverts extra power to heat water.
… which could explain why there’s no (or very little) consumption recorded on the offpeak register. If the heating is turned on, of course, I’d expect at least a few kWh to show up there reflecting overnight usage. I think we’ll have to wait until everything’s fallen into place to sort that out.
I just noticed that @Keast’s quadrant arrows were the exact reverse of mine, and that’s one element of the Aclara’s displayed information that I’ve not bothered to dig into.
Many years ago, my brother’s solar panels were wired up to do the same - heat up the water tank instead of pushing all of the excess generated energy out to the grid. I got the impression that this arrangement was not entirely kosher, when compared with his reward for helping out the grid. I never understood that, either. I suppose if he was getting FIT payments for 50% of generation, there were probably constraints on how much he was allowed to consume himself.
The ‘Harvi’ in the photo is a clever little device and monitors to decide where any excess might be more useful. It is fully acceptable and doesn’t affect any FIT payments as those are purely based on generation (with either a 50% deemed export or a measured alternative)
BPLighting you are right about the Harvi. It talks to an a myenergi eddi (by blue tooth I think) which diverts the solar output to the house, the water heater and out into the grid, in that order of preference.
I have had the solar panels for nearly 2 years but have not received full financial from benefit from an FIT because I have been waiting for a smart meter for nearly 3 years.
By installing the panels and replacing old storage heaters with Dimplex Quantum I have reduced our energy consumption by about 40%. It was a big capital outlay, and I am too scared to do the financial benefit calculations, but I am happy to help make the world a tiny bit greener.
I am right now waiting for a quote for a battery so I don’t need to sign up for a miserable FIT. Resilience for power cuts will be an added benefit because we have a completely electric household.
As an update, I am still on an Economy 7 supply, my meter readings have been sent to my account but it is only showing figures under the ‘anytime’ column. Those figures are less than my IHD meter reading shows so maybe the off peak usage is being held back until Economy 10 kicks in.
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I have had the solar panels for nearly 2 years but have not received full financial from benefit from an FIT because I have been waiting for a smart meter for nearly 3 years.
You will be on a SEG export tariff rather than FIT of course
By installing the panels and replacing old storage heaters with Dimplex Quantum I have reduced our energy consumption by about 40%. It was a big capital outlay, and I am too scared to do the financial benefit calculations, but I am happy to help make the world a tiny bit greener.
I’m sure the outlay is worthwhile eventually and obviously offers some green credentials as well
I am right now waiting for a quote for a battery so I don’t need to sign up for a miserable FIT. Resilience for power cuts will be an added benefit because we have a completely electric household.
Batteries are a key component of any solar system to my mind. Although you have some generation diversion, the battery storage adds substantially to your local capabilities. Just be careful on the power cut part. Many (if not most) systems actually switch off during a power cut as the external cables need to be isolated before engineers work on them. Generally there will be an option for a backup supply from the batteries but it will need its own power source (a secondary battery usually) and the sockets it feeds have to be cabled separately so are only used during power cuts
I got switched from radio teleswitch (superdeal) to smart meter (economy 10) on Oct 1st.
All seemed to go well. The IHD indicates when it’s going to switch (an hour before the rate changes it shows a little countdown graph and tells you if the price is about to go up or down) and the rate changes match what I was told for Economy 10 (but always only in GMT timing, apparently).
The heating circuit comes on and off with that timing but I have only 2 “rates”, 1 - peak and 2 off-peak (and strangely the meter has a rate 3 and rate 4 but they don’t use them at all so they are all zero).
So heating is basically just charged the same as off-peak usage, and the heating circuits only come on and off with the Economy 10 timings (I don’t have a 24-hour boost wiring such as some of these photos, but that’s just the way things were wired internally by the council years ago, I suspect, and has always been that way.
All seems to be working.
The only annoyance is that the OVO account still thinks I’m on a complex meter setup, so still offers me a smart meter, still won’t work on the app, still can’t see any stats, I can’t check or submit a meter reading (still reading my old MPAN and readings), I still can’t join those energy-saving initiatives that require a smart meter, and my bill is still just the standing charge for this month and nothing else. I’m hoping that’ll change when it gets to the end of the month and they actually “realise” that I have a smart meter that they fitted.
I got switched from radio teleswitch (superdeal) to smart meter (economy 10) on Oct 1st.
All seemed to go well. The IHD indicates when it’s going to switch (an hour before the rate changes it shows a little countdown graph and tells you if the price is about to go up or down) and the rate changes match what I was told for Economy 10 (but always only in GMT timing, apparently).
The heating circuit comes on and off with that timing but I have only 2 “rates”, 1 - peak and 2 off-peak (and strangely the meter has a rate 3 and rate 4 but they don’t use them at all so they are all zero).
So heating is basically just charged the same as off-peak usage, and the heating circuits only come on and off with the Economy 10 timings (I don’t have a 24-hour boost wiring such as some of these photos, but that’s just the way things were wired internally by the council years ago, I suspect, and has always been that way.
All seems to be working.
The only annoyance is that the OVO account still thinks I’m on a complex meter setup, so still offers me a smart meter, still won’t work on the app, still can’t see any stats, I can’t check or submit a meter reading (still reading my old MPAN and readings), I still can’t join those energy-saving initiatives that require a smart meter, and my bill is still just the standing charge for this month and nothing else. I’m hoping that’ll change when it gets to the end of the month and they actually “realise” that I have a smart meter that they fitted.
Good to hear of another (mostly) successful swap out. The smart meters and background systems do take a while to get ‘in line’ so you should see those changes before too long. I’m interested in your IHD .. I’ve never heard of one doing the countdown etc. Which version do you have?
Mine does a countdown. Octopus Go starting at 00:30. I probably won’t get up to see it countdown from 04:30 when the standard rate returns at 05:30…!
Mine does a countdown. Octopus Go starting at 00:30. I probably won’t get up to see it countdown from 04:30 when the standard rate returns at 05:30…!
Fascinating.. not seen this. Glad mine doesn’t do that every half-hour on Agile
Many thanks iedow letting me know about your successful move to Economy 10. I see your meter was installed on the same day as mine. Do you know when the Economy 10 service kicked in?
Firedog writes: I suspect the smart team will wait until it’s settled down completely before attempting the ECAUL request to configure the ALCS, which should then start switching the auxiliary load at the times appropriate to Economy 10.
I found this Tutorial dated July 2024 on the forum: Getting a SMETS2 smart meter with storage heaters, underfloor heating or other 5th port appliances.
I wish I had seen it before now. It is enlightening and provides two interesting pieces of information:
The default off-peak hours loaded on to the meter are 00:00 - 07:00. When the engineer installs your meter they’ll also send an 'Electricity Configure Auxiliary Load' request (commonly known as an 'ECAUL') to configure the time-switch on the meter to match the off peak hours for your region.
If your heating isn’t switching on as expected (or at the times expected) following a SMETS2 meter install, it might be due to an issue with this ECAUL configuration process, in which case we may be able to fix things remotely. Reach out to our Support Team to report these issues.
This suggests that the installing engineer sends the ECAUL request. I wonder how long I should wait before I reach out to Support because after 13 days I am still on Economy 7.
Many thanks iedow letting me know about your successful move to Economy 10. I see your meter was installed on the same day as mine. Do you know when the Economy 10 service kicked in?
For me it was immediately on the meter change.
As soon as the engineer had finished waiting for the IHD to “commission” itself, and it started picking up OVO details, etc. in its settings menu, the E10 hours started to take effect - with the countdown showing (same IHD as that pictured above).
He’d changed the meter just before 4pm when the E10 second period expired and I was able to see the countdown on that straight away (and previously on Superdeal there was no such 1-4pm window).
Mine does a countdown. Octopus Go starting at 00:30. I probably won’t get up to see it countdown from 04:30 when the standard rate returns at 05:30…!
Fascinating.. not seen this. Glad mine doesn’t do that every half-hour on Agile
FYI this is what OVO gave me too, the same IHD device.
It’s a “Chameleon Technology IHD3-PPMID-AAA“
My IHD does the countdown too but the off peak supply does not come on during the day. It comes on between 1.00 and goes off at 8.00. I understand that is the default for the meter if it does not communicate.
My IHD does the countdown too but the off peak supply does not come on during the day. It comes on between 1.00 and goes off at 8.00. I understand that is the default for the meter if it does not communicate.
That’s because your meter Economy 7 Mode rather than Economy 10 Mode. :)
Blastoise: You have brought me back to square 1! Do I need to throw a six to restart?
Nope! If the meter comms are working, it should be an easy fix. The SMETS Command to reconfigure ECAUL/ALCS should do the trick.
Thanks, Blastoise186. Who issues the SMETS? Is it done remotely or on site?
Remotely only - OVO Support should be able to trigger it. It can’t be done locally/on-site.
Thanks again, Blastoise186. I will try them this after noon.
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