Traditional PAYG electric meter- Top up not going on the meter

Yup, the best tariffs on the market going forwards will require you to either have a Smart Meter, or be willing to get one. And by impossible, @juliamc really does mean impossible. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions and no subjectiveness and this is non-negotiable. There’ll be no way for the best future tariffs to work without Smart Meters. Period. There are already tariffs on the market which come under that banner. If you refuse to go Smart, you will be 100% guaranteed to be locked out of them.

The words above ultimately came from one of my industry contacts who prefers to remain anonymous. I’m sorry if you have been told otherwise somewhere, but that’s just how it is.

It’s not so much coercion, and more a thing that the new stuff won’t work with old stuff. Nobody back in the 1880’s - and definitely not Thomas Edison - ever thought about the future or that someday we might need fancier meters than ones which just spin a dial and therefore never designed them to do anything more than just have a thing that span a few dials. But alas, that time is now.

Put it this way. If you’re on a Half-Hourly Time-of-Use Tariff, unless you want some gigantic Traditional Meter with like, 10,000 registers on it that you’ve have to submit manual readings for every single day without fail… How exactly do you expect such a tariff to work without Smart Meters? I challenge you to come up with a solution for that which fits your desire.

Or a Type of Use Tariff like OVO’s Charge Anytime and Heat Pump Plus, where specific things get discounted green juice. How would that work with Traditional Meters without the risk of a customer acting fraudulently and fudging the numbers? And more realistically… What if the customer got more stuff (or got rid of stuff) that qualifies for these discounts? Do you really expect them to get tons of re-wiring done and yet another meter swap for all that? It’d quickly become massively impractical.

But with Smart Meters, that’s easy. Just set them to Half-Hourly Mode, pull the data each day and do the number crunching from there.

Also, the opt-out thing does exist, however that is NOT a 100% Guaranteed To Totally You Opt-Out Of Smart Meters Forever Promise. The opt-outs apply solely to the marketing and promotions of them, nothing else.

The following circumstances allow all suppliers to bypass and override opt-outs and by extension, fit Smart Meters, without requiring your consent. Once fitted, there is also no going back either.

The reasons include but are NOT limited to:

• Changing between Pay Monthly <-> Pay As You Go - whether voluntarily or otherwise
• Recertification at the end of the current meter service life - usually every 10 years*
• Tampering - if you or someone else at the property has been known to tamper with any meters, Smart Meters may be used to enforce the suppliers rights and detect future tampering more easily - it’s likely that they’ll be force-fit as part of the repairs. Oh, and you’d also be billed for that too (along with being billed for all the stolen energy)!
• If the legacy key/card based PAYG infrastructure shuts down (PAYG Customers only)
• The existing meters fail/blow up/break down/become inaccurate/(insert failure reason here)
• You deliberately break the meters by smashing them up with a hammer - this has actually happened before and we’ve seen at least one case on the Forum! Then again… Being forced onto Smart Meters would probably be the least of your problems if you pulled off a stunt like that...
• RTS Meters - the only path forwards with any of these is Smart Meters. No-one makes the old local timeswitch meters anymore.

All of the above are completely legitimate reasons for a Supplier to bypass your opt-out, because they are all necessary to continue operating the services being supplied to you.

*Failure to swap the meter out on-time can cause the existing meter to become inaccurate and screw up your bills over time. The longer you leave it, the worse it gets.

Still... Could be worse...

Colin, you said previously “…  suppliers may be able to withold some tarriffs if you do not have a smart meter but in my opinion this ammounts to unfair practice and a coersive practise that should be resisted.” As Blastoise describes, some tariffs are designed around half hourly readings being sent by the meter and the costs changing for each half hour. Octopus Agile is an example. If a customer doesn’t have a smart meter it is impossible for them to get on that tariff. It’s not coercion or unfair. The more people that are on those kinds of tariffs (and changing their behaviour to benefit from the cheaper slots) the less chance of power outages.  

hi juliamc,

But you see I have a so called non Smart half hour remotely reading 3 phase meter which SSE before Ovo and I am told other suppliers can read and therefor offer certain tarriffs for, It is Intransigence on Ovo’s part that they as they have said “do not want to integrate  “Non Smart” meters into their system  why is this when I am a good relativel high (in the winter ) paying customer and a supplier of Good green Energy for around 2/3rds of the year?

The U/K does not have enough generation capacity and the needs are going to grow if we keep pushing the net zero nonsense so outages are innevitable.

regards CW

Hi @Colin Wheeler 

Am sure what you have found will help other customers. Thanks for the update on AMR meters.

1. Who told you about these other suppliers?

2. Can you post the names and links of those suppliers who you and other domestic customers can switch to with AMR meters?

3. Also links or the actual names of the tariff they are offering for AMR meters?

4. Are any of them time of use tariff using 30 min readings? 

When are you going to switch to one of these suppliers now you have found them?

Installation of AMR Meters is at supplier discretion. But that doesn't mean you can access ToU tariffs. It's more likely that you might not be able to access them.

 Hi Blastoise,

As you say Currently TOU Tarriffs are not available to Customers with AMR meters, but this in my opinion is a shame! As a winter high use customer I could make a real contribution to moving my usage to outside of the grid high demand period, and already do so as it suits my lifestyle.

As to wanting a ToU tarrif to say charge an EV or Batterys, I can achievesavings by using a reverse flow detector on my solar arrays and not exporting surplus green energy to OVO for them to sell on at a large profit. Perhaps not seen as very ethical as I am being paid to generate power in the form of FITs but Fit’s were and are an incentive to get people to invest in solar and my investment was not insignificant so my conscience is clear.

regards CW   

FIT was an incentive but I think it is important to point out for new customers that it is no longer available for new solar installations 

There are various export tariff, battery setups or EV setups that new solar investments can make use of.

There is nothing stopping you shifting usage now for the common benefit. We shift our usage and donate all our Demand Flexibility Scheme payments to a fuel charity.

You could try asking ofgem the regulator if you haven't already about any supplier obligations regarding AMR meters, including reading then, tariff options and the National Grid Demand Flexibility Scheme.

consumeraffairs@ofgem.gov.uk

I've been trying to top up by the pay as you go app and it won't go through i tried the website aswell but still nothing would I still be able to use a paypoiny if my ovo app nor website are working 

Hi ​@Shaunthomas ,

Yes you can - you can use the barcodes in the app for that.

However, I’d suggest calling 0330 175 9669 to have diagnostics done just to see what’s going on.