Gas or electric?

It turns out to be easier to track this stuff down for gas than for electric. But there are a few twists and turns along the way. I’ll be interested to see how Ovo answer this one…

;-)

Hi Simon, Electric

For electricity, my understanding (in a nutshell - me? be brief??) is that:

half-hourly usage data come direct from the meter (via DCC) and relate to 30 minute intervals that all start within moments of the hour and half-hour (according to official time, UTC, which the Comms Hub has access to). The data are the same wherever you get them from, Ovo, Hildebrand, whoever you might authorise to retrieve them, because smart meter data is only available through DCC.

The daily usage values are all calculated as differences between successive daily meter readings (it would be better to call them nightly, because they’re taken close to midnight: the readings are listed by date if you look for meter readings, under “Account” in Ovo’s smartphone app, and are taken at the start of that day - they’re “opening” readings. BUT, meter readings are only ever available at the moment they’re provided. So if Ovo ask DCC for a meter reading at twenty minutes past midnight, they’ll get a reading that is different from what the meter register had held at midnight, twenty minutes earlier, and so the “daily” usage doesn’t quite square with that sum of 48 half-hourly usages that you’d hope it would agree with. But it will be close, usually, because any discrepancy only relates to a few minutes of usage, and that’s never going to be a lot of kWh.

So far as I understand it, *this* is the reason why you can never quite tie up HH usage data with monthly bills even if all the smart meter data are present.

If some smart data are missing, then we (or rather Ovo) get into the business of estimating values to fill in the gaps. And the place this comes in with a vengence is those “daily usage” values because, as I mentioned above, they are defined as the difference between meter readings taken on two successive days. And if the smart meter hasn’t provided both readings, well there’s a challenge and, to be quite honest, how well Ovo handle this has been a matter of some discussion in parts of this forum for a while now.

One test of all this would be for you to look at the smartphone app and see if any dates are missing in the list of smart meter readings around the time you have the discrepancy between 16.60 and 22.7 the daily usage should be identical (you can only check this to the nearest kWh because Ovo don’t share readings with any greater precision that that, except on the monthly statement) to the difference between the right pair of smart meter readings. If either or both smart readings are missing, then 22.7 is an estimate, and Ovo might have had to make it an overestimate to make up for an earlier underestimate.

As I said, there has been quite some discussion about Ovo and estimation…

With apologies for the lack of brevity,

Cheers

PS I shall reassure @Tim_OVO that it is not my intention to complicate this summary by dragging in the question of whether Ovo’s times might be out by 30 minutes but, be warned - anyone looking at the IHD and trying to tie those numbers up with the HH usage numbers that everyone gets from DCC will notice the error eventually.

PPS Apologies to anyone who still thinks that smart meters actually keep a historical record of meter readings, as opposed to “usage”. I’ve taken the bold step of asserting that THEY DO NOT DO THIS. Smart meters only store usage. The only way I’m going to retreat from this position is if someone comes up with a real live example of a stored meter reading (that some utility company uses) rather than merely pointing to the SMETS2 standard definition document and says, more or less “the standard says they do, so they do”. That’s not good enough - I want real hard evidence that smart meters store a history of readings, because I’ve never seen any.

PPPS (and why not?) The reason for the initial question, gas or electric, is that gas meters run on batteries, they do the absolute minimum, and that is to broadcast their meter reading only once every 30 minutes and this means that the daily and HH usage data do tie up after all, because there’s no room for a few minutes worth of discrepancy. It’s the full 30 minutes or nothing. In a good month, there are no missing nightly readings, and no missing HH usage data and they do tie up to better than a millionth of a kWh. (I’ve checked it, once. Actually, you can miss nightly readings during the month, because the error in usage for one day, arising from an error in the estimate for the closing reading at the end of that day is exactly cancelled by the matching error in the usage for the following day arising from the same estimate being used for its opening reading. It’s the opening and closing readings for the whole month that are essential, fairly obviously.)

Thanks Simon,

So the upshot is that if their system hasn't accessed all the data they put an estimate in for daily use?

Just checked now and the daily usage has changed to 16.60 kwh.

If they have to, they estimate, yes.

Interesting that you saw that number change, and especially that it changed from something puzzling to something understandable - which must be a good thing: I don’t mind estimates being a little odd so long as that’s only a temporary state of affairs.

Cheers

Great to see our resident smart meter usage data analyst, @Simon1D has already helped to explain the discrepancies you’ve noticed between the usage figures on your In-Home Display and the usage pages of your online account, @Paul_Bedfordshire.

It’s worth calling out that both your IHD and these usage pages may be affected by intermittent signal issues and therefore the daily consumption figures may not be 100% accurate throughout the month (as Simon has well-documented!). Any time we do re-gain connection with your meters you may notice your charges or daily usage figures are corrected based on the up-to date smart meter usage data we’ve received.

If the signal issues continue for more than 5 days it’s worth taking a look at this guide which helps to diagnose signal issues via your online account.

Let us know if this helps, or if you notice any further discrepancies. It’s really helpful to others who may find this topic in future too! 

Many thanks all for the info

I’ve got an OVO-supplied smart meter, made by ‘Chameleon’, probably 2017 model, an IHD3.

Taking more notice of it these days (!), iand t’s obvious it doen’t match my bill.

During July, it was averaging about £2 total usage a day for combined gas and electric. Yet my bill for the month averages £3 per day.

I’d always assumed the charges that the smart meter shows are correct and don’t have to be adjusted at my end. Or am I wrong? Grateful for any advice. Just tried to use the Chatbot at 0945 on a Saturday and got the response that the chat was out of working hours!

Hi @Cantata 

I don't work for OVO or have access to your account. I am just a customer. A few of us help out with a few posts if we think we can. 

In case you didn't know

The usage page on the app doesn't include vat or standing charges. 

https://account.ovoenergy.com/usage

The IHD includes both standing charges and VAT. Your bill includes VAT and Standing Charges etc. 

Does this help explain any of the difference or did you already know this? 

Hope that helps

Already knew that thanks. No, the July bill is showing roughly £60 of electricity units before any VAT or standing charges, and roughtly £30 for gas units, so about £90 for the month, or £3-worth of units per day before the add-ons. But the smart meter rarely went over £2 for each day.

You mention an app, though. I’m just reading the numbers on the smart meter?

The costs on your IHD (in home display) for your smart meter include VAT and Standing charges.

The costs on the usage page on the website and app don't include vat or standing charges

https://account.ovoenergy.com/usage

So the costs on the usage page on the website and app will always be lower than you see on your smart meter. 

Does that help? As you say you may already have known that. 

No, sorry maybe not making myself clear.

The smart meter display throughout July rarely went over £2 per day, combined gas and electric.

My July bill, emailed to me this morning, shows a usage breakdown equivalent to £3 per day.

So according to the smart meter, just watching it each day, my July bill should be about £60 plus the add-ons, but the actual July bill is for £90 plus the add-ons.

Hi @Cantata 

The other reason is sometimes the tariff info on the actual smart meter is out of date. It may have got out of sync with your real tariff stored with your account. 

So ask the Support Team to send the SMETS Command "Update Tariff Configuration." 

That is definitely worth a try. This will update the smart meter in your home. 

If that doesn't work one of us can ask you a  few more questions to see if we can help you. 

Feel free to ask anything, there are plenty of customers that try and help out here. 

OK? 

The IHD (the display in your house) isn't your smart meter. It's a display unit that receives data from the smart meter and uses it, along with other information, to give you information about your energy use. The other information is your standing charge and cost per kWh. If these figures are wrong in your IHD (they're wrong on ours) it will display correct usage figures (in kWh) but incorrect amounts (in £).

If you think your bill is incorrect you should check the usage figures, in kWh. Take some meter readings to see if they match up to the figures on the bill.

Ah, thanks, I did wonder. I also hoped that the meter was right and OVO was wrong!! I’ll try and get hold of them on Monday I guess.

Yes, thanks, I’ll try the ‘Update Tariff Config’ option. I did know the display is not the smart meter, by the way, just writing shorthand a bit……...

Hi @Cantata at the same time ask them to check your smart meters are setup for 30min readings. Some people only have their smart meters setup to automatically send a meter reading once a month. We have seen examples of this making it difficult for customers looking at their daily figures. They will be able to check and make this change if necessary. 

OK, I called OVO and they agreed straightaway that the tariff hadn’t been upgraded at my end since I finished my fixed price period at the end of last year. So they are going to do it.

I have to say they were very helpful and courteous on the phone.

I moved in recently and have been charged twice the amount for bills. My flatmate called and they said they have a set amount they charge to cover future issues that is more than what is on the meter. Is this true? If so, where is that stated in their policies? I don’t want to pay for something I haven’t agreed upon in writing. 

Hi @rayrafols 

https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/credit-checks

Some customers are asked to pay a security deposit.

Did they say you would be asked to pay that? 

In regards to billing, no security deposit was mentioned, just the surprise this morning when our bill was way more than what the meter had read, and it’s exactly twice the amount.

@rayrafols

Does the bill say it was based on an estimated reading?

Is the starting reading correct?

Their comment made me think of a security deposit, so i would double check with them it isn't that.

We don't have access to your account obviously as we are just customers like you. So we can't see exactly what you are looking at on your bill.

Is it a smart meter?

If you pay by direct debit, the costs are smoothed throughout the year. So your direct debit payment may well be twice your usage at this time of year so you build up credit to use over winter. 

Not entirely sure about what a smart meter is, I’m assuming it’s the information linked to a display showing electricity/gas and price? I have that.
 

I’ll get back to you on the rest since the account billed is associated with a flatmate and not myself. 

Can you post photos of your electric and gas meters? We can identify them for you and tell you what type they are. :)