Zubadan shows consumed hot water energy bigger than delivered hot water energy

Maybe it’s worth checking the heat pump readings as your installer and M.isterW suggested they aren’t always accurate.
Could you take meter readings from your main supply meter eg today and this time tomorrow, to compare how much electricity is being used in total over a whole day. Also note the readings on the hp controller at those times. As the house is still cooling down it would probably only reflect a hot water cycle, plus of course anything else used in the house. If you have any other heavy use items eg an EV, and deduct the amount they use it should indicate whether the heat pump is actually using the amount it states. 

We verified the total electrical consumption for the house and it seems that what the heat pump shows for consumed is similar with the calculations that we did extracting the usual household items. So maybe the delivered energy is not accurate, but the consumed is…

What I noticed now is that the pump started for heating water (after we stopped it today so that it doens’t start heating the house)  and it uses the electrical resistance to heat up water as the firebolt is displayed…

What settings should we do so that it doens’t uses the electrical for heating the water? 6 degrees outside…

There are so many things that I don’t understand and that are nor working as I am logically thinking..it makes me think that maybe it’s an actual issue with the pump and not just with the settings. The problem is that we cannot find a good specialist to know, the person that installed it didn’t helped us much…

I also realized that probably when the water is heating the THW1 and THW2 are not showing the temp for underfloor heating…now it stopped the hot water and changed to the house heating

Sorry I’ve only just thought of this…  consulting Dr Google I’ve found advice about setting the times for the water heatup…

Can you set HWdrop to 10 and HWtime to 90.

Not sure how ECO mode affects the water heating process but this will trigger the water heat up less frequently and let it run for longer.

Is the tank reaching 50 degrees? It looks to me like it isn’t.

Further thoughts: you could lower HWtemp to 48 maybe ?

ECO mode on your system means the hot water is heating up more gradually at a slower rate with a less hot flow temperature. 
 

There’s a very good forum with a lot of knowledgeable heat pump owners at renewableheatinghub.co.uk so if you feel we’re getting nowhere with your problem it might be worth asking there. However I’m not giving up !!

I stopped the immersion and booster heaters and the dropped the HW temp by 10c; I will also drop HW time. Eco is already on and the tank reaches 48-49 from what I saw.

Heating is still not ok, consuming much more than expected..I was looking at THW1 and THW2 and saw that the difference betweend them is not that big..should’t be bigger?

How did you stop the immersion ?

I think you should increase the HWtime from 62 mins to 90 mins.

Increase HWdrop from 6 mins to 10 mins.

Decrease HWtemp from 50 to 48.

Further to my comment above about cycling I think yours was cycling because the room temperature (26) was already above the target temperature (20) so it couldn’t get rid of the heat it was producing. I don’t know why the heat pump was running for heating though. 

Besided the HW changes, as last resort, we put the heating and HW on a scheduled timer...First hot water in the morning from 7 to 8.30 and then from 8.30 to 13.30 the heating...it worked continuously for heating from what I saw in the logs, so I am curious about the COP and the energy consumed. 

But I believe that even though is on schedule, it will do defrosting if needed at night, right?

I am not happy with a schedule for heating, this not something that I wanted, I am thinking now that it was better with the thermostats, at least I could change the temp for heating remotely and not going always at the pump…

I will see tonight if this experiment worked, until now there were all fails :))

Is the room temperature back to something comfortable ?

Yes, we keep it around 22-23 degrees, I will see how much it will drop these hours.

But I already checked and one night at around 0 outside the room with the termometer showed loss of 1 degree. So I did a math, and at 0 degrees in 24 hours should be 3 degrees loss, meaning 788W at our house volume and insulation. So the necessary would be 19kWh for 24h at 0 degrees…and those are thermic W, if the pump would work only with COP 1.5 and would need just 13kW.

And our pump consumes much more, even leaving aside HW. 
The person that installed said..it is ok..answered none of our questions, it is ok for him the consumed energy  and the delivered number he says that it is just not accurate. My problem is that he is comparing the consume for our house with other houses, but our is way better insulated…

I’m going to send you a private message… !

Just to point out something about heat pumps, if they cycle a lot that significantly reduces the COP because each start up consumes energy without producing heat. That is certainly consistent with what we are seeing here. The question is why is it cycling so much and ​@juliamc may have given us the answer.

I think there are a few things wrong with the installation, things that good installer can see which I’ve missed altogether. I’ve asked elsewhere about this and have some useful answers which I’ll try and summarise asap. Meanwhile Morana has arranged to get a second opinion locally. 

I agree that it might be cycling, but the thing is that the room temp should not be taken into consideration, as we don’t use auto adapt..I was expecting that the pump to look at the outside temp, the flow and return temp and adjust the heating acordingly..o

Here goes ! I’ve asked on the Facebook page Heat Pumps UK which is a most helpful group of heat pump installers discussing their trade, and advising on all things Heat Pump. This is my summary of their comments on ​@Morana ‘s photo of the plant room with the Zubadan and associated pipework and buffer tank. I’m not saying I understand all this, but I hope Marana’s second opinion installer might get to see this and it might help:

Most comments are regarding the grey buffer tank with the 4 pipes, which results in “distortion”. There isn’t always a need to include a buffer tank, it depends on the individual design’s total volume of system water. Sometimes they have been installed unnecessarily, sometimes a smaller volumiser or low loss header is used instead.

With the 4 pipe buffer you have flows (hot) and returns (cool) all pumped into the buffer and probably at mis-matched rates, meaning hot and cool mix together, lowering the system water by several degrees. The more mis-matched the flow rates are going into the buffer, the worse the problem is.

An improvement would be a three pipe configuration, where the heating return is piped into the return back to the heat pump after the buffer.

One installers advise is as follows:

People talking about Buffer Vessel and distortion.

Whilst yes this can be a factor the more important query is whether a buffer vessel is required.

That would depend on the total system volume, the length of the pipes to the furthest heating emitter (ie radiator/ufh/etc).

This looks like it has been zoned into 2 different areas (upstairs/downstairs?) so would be helpful to know what types of emitters are installed on each zone along with how many plus the break down of the numbers on each loop.

Under Floor Heating is often installed with a blending valve to reduce the temperature so that no damage occurs to the flooring.

If the heat pump is trying to run a DHW cycle and the UFH is also running then you will be constantly blending cold water into the system at the same time - this would massively impact COP.

Have they used ESBE valves for diverting heating to the 2 separate zones?

If these are installed incorrectly they can in effect be letting by (or working as a blending valve) allow Hot Leaving water intended for the DHW Cylinder to go through the heating loop(s) again destroying your COP/efficiency.

A point about the readings shown on the Ecodan controller: the buffer distorts the delivered energy report, and even the heating flow temperature too. So the advice is to measure the flow and return temperature on the heating side of the buffer - measure on stub - and use this calculator* to see what was the delivered heat mass. You will need the flow rate of your pump (after the buffer)

As for a reference - You can check Ecodan flow rate in Service menu > Commissioning wizard - also you can adjust pump speed in the service menu

*https://heatpumps.co.uk/calculators/

Other comments point out that the refrigerant pipes are not well supported. Those are the two thin, part insulated in white (foam?), copper pipes that loop up and into the top of the Ecodan unit. If they were knocked they might easily come loose and refrigerant could leak out. That would be extremely unwise! Mine leaked into the open air which was very bad, but if it leaks indoors that must be worse.

Good luck ​@Morana I hope this is useful !!