Faulty traditional meter

Never ending saga continues, this now consumes my day!

Currently Ovo have asked a company called SMS to install a meter. SMS say they can install a smart meter and do away with the THTC, but Ovo previously said this was impossible, their best suggestion was having a heritage meter supplied for the faulty standard one and a single tariff since our biggest spend is our regular meter. No idea how to proceed.

SMS proposed fitting an SMETS2 E7 Meter an Off Peak Tariff for the hot water (from 12am to 7am)

My many questions included:

*This appears to be dual tariff again not single?

*How would a cheaper tariff at night benefit us regarding the hot water system...doesn't it currently heat the water when it's USED, so as the tank empties and refills with cold water the sensor reacts by turning the heating element on to raise the temp...this wouldn't specifically happen at night? We don't want it to become an expensive immersion heater that is constantly on.

*What would the two dual tariff costs and standing charge be?

*Are economy 7 meters going to continue to be supported or are they being phased out?

*I'm not a plumber and I assume the meter installer isn't either, so not sure how the water heater will be rerouted from the THTC and made to function on demand as it does now?
*Would I be able to swap provider with this meter?

Meanwhile Ovo continues to ‘handle’ my complaint which is mostly me not understanding wth is going on and why I should be paying estimates for a non-functional meter!

PLEASE HELP ME AS I DON’T KNOW WHAT YO DO RE THESE METERS!

Hi @zedzedhoney, sorry to hear of the ongoing saga!

And, in general terms, be reassured, SMS are the folk to fit a smart meter. 

I can help with several of your queries, taking them seriatim:

1.  It would indeed be a dual tariff that seems to be the suggestion here.

2.  Not sure about the hot water/immersion time of use to suit yourself; is it a tank with heating element, that can be lagged and well insulated, could you use it as a big immersion heater, timed to heat only between 12 and 7? Or is it, as sounds more likely, some kind of instant on demand water heater? If the latter, you're quite right, dual tariff wouldn't really help in normaI daily use I think.
3. The standing charge won't cost any more with having dual tariff.
4. The cost of the two tariffs and the SC can be found out by (once more!) chatting to OVO
5. There are many on here well versed with Economy7, and someone will soon respond… but this is also something you could query with OVO
6. The change of wiring to your water heater would not necessarily involve a plumber at all, simply connecting the existing heater cable to the new meter rather than the old meter. Whether said cable is long enough etc. is more of an electrician’s problem than a plumber to ponder, so far as I can tell?
7. You would find it easier to swap provider with the new smart meter...but every provider has different tariffs, and dual tariffs could maybe be a sticking point when seeking to switch? But in itself, no problem about switching after a smart meter has been fitted. 

So, pending further, more pertinent, advice from forum members on your dual tariff requirements (or not) and the whole Economy7 side of things, you could start preparing a list of queries to OVO customer services, now that at last you have encouraging news about a SMETS meter being a real possibility: namely, the practicalities of Economy7 for your situation and your particular heater, and the tariff costs of said dual tariff if it is practicable in the first place.

Good luck, things are progressing for you on the metering front, even though it might not feel like that! It's this water heating problem that needs definitive answers before you can feel confident about proceeding, I know. 

Thanks for reply, will need to disseminate later when I’ve more time as lots of great info thanks…it’s my birthday and I’m determined to spend some of it NOT on this issu…and yes I’m chatting to OVO many times a day, but they seem not to be chatting with SMS much so are still on the heritage meter/single tariff loop…I’ve no idea who to ask about the water heater as it seems to be nobody’s job! SMS just replied saying it’s simply my choice what meter I want….but not answering any questions re the water (which I need an answer to before choosing) so it’s obviously not their job!

😳😳😳

Walt has made a lot of valid points. 

I’d ask - how big is that high-tech water tank? What model number is it? I counted 38 different models on their product literature page, so it’s impossible to guess.

How much hot water do you use each day?

I’ll look it up again, but I think you should be able to charge it up overnight to give you enough hot water for the day, so long as there aren’t too many of you needing hot baths each day. My 210 litre tank lasts for two or three days on a single night’s charge, but there’s only one of me.

Whatever is currently connected to the THTC meter would be connected to the fifth port on the smart meter, meaning (if they get it right) that there would only be power to them at night. We can’t be sure that this will suit you until we know more about the water tank. This looks like the only potential stumbling block on your way to a solution.

Happy birthday to you 🎂 

What is your water heater for? Handbasin level filling or larger - like a bath full?

Or post a picture of the water heater and we might have a better idea 

So the tank is 210 litres on label, it’s attached to a timer/control unit, so I guess we have the option for all day or timed (but we know that all day only comes on and heats it when the sensor detects cold water temp drop…so it tops up temp as needed if on all day…I think…but there’s a lot of wires!) there’s also a wee white cylinder attached to it about which I’m clueless! There’s two adults and two preteens in the house, and soon there will be two guests in the appended cottage most nights via Air bnb (although there’s an electric shower in there) they will do dishes etc.

We have one electric shower and one regular in the main house, we don’t ALL shower twice daily, probably 2 showers run in morn and 2 showers at night, plus the usual two lots of dishes morn and eve, BUT we do run a minimum of two xl washings and two dryers daily, cold feed not hot, but it’s relevant for electric bill (this is due to my daughter’s incontinence).

And as I mentioned we’re on heating oil not gas so that’s in there too somehow when the boiler fires up, incoming photos of Doom Cupboard!

And this is why it’s worth putting up with the stone age technology coz we get to wake up to this in our garden every day! 

A very Happy Birthday to you!!

Yes indeed, as SMS say, they only fit the meter, which in effect means connecting the grid to the new meter, and then from the meter normally to an isolation switch which your own electrician can then connect to your consumer unit(s). If there is no isolation switch, SMS can fit one (there might be a relatively small cost to you, but it's very useful to have one). As said above, there's a slight additional task of factoring in the possibility of a dual tariff supply for domestic hot water. That would best be decided between you and OVO, SMS will be happy to install either single or dual I imagine, provided cabling and safety and other normal considerations allow.  
 

Ultimately it's a decision that you the householder are now in a position to take, rather than OVO, and not SMS, but you need clear advice on the options at this stage. You could ask OVO for guidance on likely tariffs given different scenarios, but in your shoes I would ask a friendly electrician to pop by with regard to the water heating side of things; they won't charge a fortune for their valued time and expertise (may not charge anything if you're very lucky, against the possibility of future commissions) to take a look and offer reasonably firm opinion including (rough) guidance on costs involved. Not tariff costs, electrician/householder type costs! 
 

Anyway, ‘nuff said for now, it's your birthday for goodness’ sake!  Be assured, though, that it looks like you're at the stage of at last having the situation resolve itself soon...a kind of birthday present!

Have a lovely evening...all the warmest and best from us on the forum…

EDIT Ooooh yes, what a fab location!

And there's a lot of brilliant info about your hot water setup, thank you for your trouble...

Oh, and of course silly me, I remember now, as an isolation switch you already have that wonderful Frankenstein lever, which will serve (already does serve?) admirably.

@Emmanuelle_OVO ir anyone, who/what department at Ovo would I talk to re the proposed installation by SMS of an economy 7 single smart meter with dual tariff, whilst removing my THTC, and what effect this would have in my current water heater system (since the proposed meter would I think heat the water tsnk only between 12am-7am) 

Would it be complex meter team? Tariff people? Technical people? I seem to be stuck in a loop of only hearing back from complaints team when what I need is technical advice and prices before I am able to book in SMS to visit us and install….something. Thanks