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Hi @IanFerguson, informative post!

Of course if you already carry out these tasks outside this period you are not going to get the discount. It's not that hard to understand -is it?

One still could qualify for the discount, though, I think: by continuing to do those tasks you cite outside the  peak times, without changing those usage habits, the incentive could well be earned, whereas before there was no particular monetary reward.  
 

That’s what I like about Power Move: for the first time ever I’ve been offered a financial incentive to modify, adapt (or in the case of some well-organised individuals as you intimate above) or maintain my peak usage behaviour…I guess in the near future we’ll see more incentives using smart variable tariffs etc., but with this one you can actually monitor day by day (via the half-hourly usage stats in our OVO account) how the challenge is progressing. A straightforward hit or miss incentive. 
 

I do hope, however, that OVO (and indeed all energy providers, surely?) can eventually provide a graph for every user in their account usage pages showing peak usage hours as a percentage of total usage.  In OVO’s case, the algorithm must already exist for the weekday usage stats for all PowerMove users, it would be nice for us to actually benefit from it as the weeks progressed through the relevant month.

Anyway, Ian, in your own case it looks like you’ve got the incentive well in hand, all the very best of luck with it, let us know at month end how it’s gone for you….

Hi Waltyboy. Thanks but your first statement is totally wrong. If you already do your household tasks outside the 4-7 pm period you won' t gain any benefit. The idea is to reduce your overall average daily consumption at these times.

It actually makes a lot of sense. The vast majority of the population arrive home from work and school between 4 and 7 and on goes the TV, computer, Hi Fi, Xbox and cooker, followed by dishwasher, out comes the hoover, iron. There is nothing wrong with that, it's been a part of daily life for decades. What it does however is put a strain on the supply on the supply network and what OVO are trying to do, commendably, is to reduce consumption during peak periods which is going to be critical once gas and coal power stations disappear in the not too distant future.

Small changes aren't that difficult (for most). Instead of turning on the TV or games machine, read a book, do a crossword, get a hobby - make something!,  and, I'm certain the dog would love an extra walk in the park! 

As I said before it ain't rocket science, just a small change in attitude and behaviour, although I suspect for some this may be be more difficult than rocket science itself!!

Hi @IanFerguson Many thanks for the reply and the kind explanations…I still only partly understand your explanation, though, apologies for being a bit slow! 

I had earlier said:

One still could qualify for the discount, though, I think: by continuing to do those tasks you cite outside the  peak times, without changing those usage habits, the incentive could well be earned, whereas before there was no particular monetary reward.  

to which you’ve kindly replied:

If you already do your household tasks outside the 4-7 pm period you won' t gain any benefit. The idea is to reduce your overall average daily consumption at these times.

If, say, you have already reduced usage during the key weekday slot 4-7, then, as you rightly intimate, you cannot further reduce the usage during that peak time.  But that doesn’t preclude you qualifying for the incentive, surely? Yes, in that circumstance you can’t reduce minimal usage to less than minimal usage during 4-7, but if you’re already hitting the required target in this way, and have been doing for so,e time, it doesn’t mean you won’t qualify for the monthly Power Move payment.

For example, I’m willing to bet that folk who hit the September 12.5% Power Move target (like myself, for example) are more than willing to have a go at hitting the October, November and December 13.5% targets as well! Surely they won’t just say “I can’t reduce my usage any more, I’ve done it for one month, any further reduction is not possible”?

I think what I don’t understand in your reply is your (quite justified, as you point out, given most people’s typically high usage 4-7) emphasis only on the key word reducing 4-7 usage, even for the (admittedly limited) number of people who’ve already satisfactorily reduced their 4-7 usage to below 13.5% of their total daily usage: in their case, they have no need for further reductions, given their qualifying percentage, they need only continue their successfully qualifying habits.
 

Also, I was a little unsure of your saying “The idea is to reduce your overall average daily consumption at these times.”.  This may be where I’m failing to understand! Because, unlike your starting premise (I think?), I feel the incentive is not so much about reducing overall daily consumption (though that’s always nice!) but rather about reducing consumption in the key 4-7 slot as a percentage of overall daily usage. If it’s already reduced for some lucky people without even “trying” for the incentive, then great for them, they’ve already hit the target without having to reduce anything, and the rest of us have to try to achieve the same aim by reducing our own 4-7 usage and hopefully emulate the successful folk’s behaviour. 
 

One thing’s for sure, you and I, as I should think goes for most people on this forum, agree most definitely on attempting to reduce our peak usage especially, as you say there is an ever growing need for all of us to do that, and indeed wherever possible our overall usage as well, so keep up the good work is what I say!

Hi again, I must say I'm enjoying this debate which is refreshingly intelligent and not full of the usual insults so common on these type of forums.

Let me try and explain what I read into this scheme. It is not intended to reduce your overall daily usage, but to encourage shifting high usage away from the peak period. So if you usually do the cooking, ironing etc between 4-7 and switch these tasks to before or after these times then you may benefit from the scheme.

But, here's the rub, some people like retirees are at home all day and may already carry out high consumption tasks outside of the peak period and their 4-7 usage is very low anyway. This section of users won't benefit at all as there is very little consumption to move to other times of the day.

It's a misconception to think that if you're doing it anyway you qualify for the discount - you don't.

Only those who are seen to be making tangible changes to their usual consumption  habits are going to benefit.

Another group that unfortunately can't participate are those who don't have Smart meters as this is the way the scheme is monitored.

Hope I've made myself a little clearer. Nice to chat with you.  Ian.

Sorry, but this isn’t right. It’s what I, too, expected, so I was a bit surprised when I discovered the way it actually works. The system makes no ‘before and after’ comparison. It simply looks at your consumption in the target period - 4-7PM on weekdays - and compares it to the total weekday consumption for the month. If the result is less than the target, you get the reward. It was made even easier for people like you and me for the Autumn challenge by increasing the threshold from summer’s 12.5% to 13.5%. 

There is a way of ‘gaming the system’, as you’ve probably read. You’ve already noted that the object of the exercise isn’t to reduce overall usage, but just to try to move usage away from the most critical period when the grid might struggle during the winter (this may also have the by-effect of reducing CO₂ emissions if it means that less power has to be generated by burning fossil fuels). But it only looks at weekdays, so for those who can’t quite reach the target despite cutting down consumption during the target period, another way of achieving it is by increasing consumption outside the target period. They can do this by moving power-hungry activities from weekends to weekdays. Again, there will be no reduction in total usage, but the chances of meeting the target are greater. 

This is of course against the spirit of the thing, but for those for whom a £15 reward would make a significant improvement to their finances, it’s worth doing while it’s possible. I won’t be surprised if OVO take measures to close this loophole at some stage, but it may require a lot more computation than they’re prepared to undertake. 

Hi @IanFerguson Good to hear from you, and that you’re enjoying the forum, it can get quite busy at times, but always enjoyable and informative. As indeed you say, what’s not to like about sharing ideas and viewpoints, and I’ve so far seen little or no abruptness or unkindness from one user towards another. We’re pretty much all in the same boat!

Vis-à-vis the PowerMove incentive, it seems to me as though you’re convinced there has to be a tangible, demonstrable reduction in people’s peak usage every month of the incentive, or else they won’t benefit at all. Am I right in that understanding?

But, here's the rub, some people like retirees are at home all day and may already carry out high consumption tasks outside of the peak period and their 4-7 usage is very low anyway. This section of users won't benefit at all as there is very little consumption to move to other times of the day.

It's a misconception to think that if you're doing it anyway you qualify for the discount - you don't.

Only those who are seen to be making tangible changes to their usual consumption  habits are going to benefit.

If I’m correct in my assumption that what you’re saying is in fact people who are already benefiting the Grid by maintaining “very low usage” during peak hours of 4-7 won’t qualify for the discount, then this is a very outlying view on this forum, I suspect!  Your “It's a misconception to think that if you're doing it anyway you qualify for the discount - you don't” would be rather bleak, I think, and most certainly a view which I for one definitely do NOT share!  For the folk who successfully hit the requisite 13.5% target over the month, they earn the discount however many tangible changes they make, or however few tangible changes they make, or even (in a minority of cases where people are already using 13.5% or less of their weekday totals during the peak 4-7 hours), if they make zero tangible changes. 

It’s not directly the degree, or measurability, or how tangible is a change in peak usage that qualifies, but rather the more indirect but still rigorously mathematical percentage figure that qualifies: it’s the ratio of peak usage to overall usage that’s being incentivised here.  As you and I both agree, I’m sure, that translates into reducing weekday 3-hour peak usage, but (and this I suspect is where you and I differ?) only and exclusively when compared to our overall 24 hour weekday usage, aggregated as a percentage over the relevant month..

Its purely mathematical, though, there’s nobody measuring how tangible the changes are that we’ve made, and nobody necessarily saying “sorry, Ian, no tangible usage changes from you during peak hours this month as compared to last month, so no discount for you even though you may well be below the 13.5% ratio…”

Good luck with it all, let us know how you are doing with PowerMove, it’s a bit of a tough call going into Winter, but quite a few people on the forum are aiming at it, that’s for sure! Provided we all remember we mustn’t cut back on basic 4-7 levels of warmth, light and indeed comfort and wellbeing. Misery most definitely is not what the incentive is about! 

Kindest regards…..

Hi, you make some great points particularly in regard to some who may try to work the system by switching weekend use to weekdays. However what you say in your first paragraph just seems to echo what I said. There must be a before and after comparison i.e. peak and off peak in order to arrive at a percentage regardless of whether it's averaged out over a month or a year or am I missing something? I'm completely amenable to being corrected.

Where I may have it wrong is when I intimated that those already hitting targets  would not benefit. I am not 100 percent sure of this. I do know that not every customer has been invited into the scheme so OVO may well be looking at historical usage before sending out the invites. I cannot see them giving away discounts to customers who don't have to make any changes, or am I just being a stereotypical old grump.

All the best. Ian

All customers should now have access - as far as I know. 
It’s all about percentage comparison rather than a before and after view. That differs from the last event last winter. 
Basically, looking to get users focusing on reducing peak usage compared to their general usage which helps reduce carbon emissions as it’s at peak times that extra capacity often involves higher emitting plant

Hi again Walt. I think I covered your main points about already low peak period usage customers and admit I may have it wrong but reserve the right to see evidence first.

However I do think your criticism of my use of the word "tangible" is off piste unless my many English tutors were charlatans! Tangible, visible, measurable, real, they all have the same general meaning.

I didn't at any time suggest that individual changes in habits were being monitored but if one reduces or switches peak usage such as cooking dinner to off peak periods the results are "tangible" and can be seen in the meter readings. whether or not averaged out over a month.

Moreover usage is being monitored continuously by OVO's Smart system otherwise I wouldn't be receiving regular "Well Done-You're on Track" messages. This wouldn't happen if there weren't "tangible" changes in my Smart meter readings which could only happen by "tangible" changes in my habits.  These changes aren't made by the usage fairy while I'm sleeping!

I hope you're enjoying this as much as I am? A lot may be away from the subject but thoroughly enjoyable none the less. Also keeps my rather elderly brain cells exercised. Rgds. Ian.

Hi @IanFerguson Hello again…absolutely no criticism intended, of your English usage or otherwise! I always try hard not to give offence, I do apologise for implying criticism.  My written word has come back to bite me on the proverbial at times in the past (general work emails and so on over the years, I mean) and so I always try to be careful. Lesson learned (again!), apologies once more.

Yes indeed, it’s good that the incentive does encourage us to make changes, especially in peak time. 
 

Tangible changes!

It’s certainly the first time I’ve ever received (directly, at any rate) a financial incentive for modifying my usage, so hopefully with more smart meters coming on stream and with ever-raised awareness, energy suppliers and their customers will start to get a lot smarter about usage and how to monitor and tailor Grid usage to the benefit of all of us…

Kindest regards, keep up the good work!!