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Landis+Gyr E470 smart meter unofficial guide - How to tell if you've got the SMETS1 or SMETS2 version

Landis+Gyr E470 smart meter unofficial guide - How to tell if you've got the SMETS1 or SMETS2 version

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I’ve gone ahead and played one of my Joker Cards to see if Tim can find out more about these Frankenstein Meters. There’s someone in OVO’s internal teams who knows a lot about this stuff and even sent Tim a 100 page user manual for Raichu (my S2 Aclara SGM1411-B smart meter) the other day.

Hang in there for a bit and hopefully our friendly expert can give us more info. I’ll update my guide once I know more. :)

It’s great when you happen to know the Ancient Philosopher @Tim_OVO Sonius (13th Century BC)!

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HI @bgreenwood2000 and @Brilldan 

 

As of yesterday I did get some new advice about these L&G meters:

 

 

 

Yes they look like some of the models of S2 L&G meters, but they’re not. They are S1, which can be identified by their separate communications hub (Trilliant in this case). 

 

S2 L&G smart meters will always have a form of comms hub attached to the top of the actual electricity smart meter. See this topic for the latest on when L&G S1 smart meters are scheduled to be upgraded:

 

 

Sorry for any confusion caused here, @Blastoise186 or myself will be updating this topic guide today with the latest. 

 

Thanks L&G for this E470 confusion fun.. :) 

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Yup,

I’ve just had a chat with Tim about this, and it was a bit of a shocker! I’ve gone ahead and made some edits that should help to fix things up. My edits just now might not be perfect, but at least they’re (hopefully) a bit more accurate.

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Good news is that me and Tim have now gone through and fixed the guide properly, so everything should now be accurate and a little bit more tidy.

If you spot any other mistakes, please feel free to let me, Tim or Jess know. We’ll get them fixed up if needed!

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My landlord has granted consent for me to grab a photo of one of the other meters downstairs and add it to this guide. The image quality isn’t perfect as I agreed to blur it ever so slightly and to edit out private data. But it should be good enough. The weird attachment bolted to the hub was manufactured by Kaifa.

I’ve given my landlord a copy of this guide and they will be given the opportunity to view it soon. But as always, if you have more edge cases, we’d love to know about them!

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I can’t believe I’ve just realised this. But it’s yet another example of how annoying Landis+Gyr are!

I’m going to ask @Tim_OVO and @Jess_OVO to chat with a certain friend of ours to verify first. But after realising that there’s another way to identify these Frankenstein S1 E470 meters, I want to look at making a slight tweak to the guide. This thing really does evolve as we go!

Anyway, my observations have made me suddenly realise that the proper S2 E470 seems to have both the A and B Buttons on the right hand side of the meter with the green A Button being stacked above the grey B Button. Meanwhile, the S1 Frankenstein E470 has the green A Button top right, with the white B Button bottom left. This is somewhat similar to the “proper” S1 E470 button layout where the green A Button is to the right of the display and the clear B Button is below the display.

I am so tempted to ask Landis+Gyr why they designed these things like this, because it really doesn’t make life any easier. Oh well…

Please don’t rely on this comment being accurate just yet. Since this would be a major change to the guide, I want to get it verified first before updating my guide. If you later see something similar to this comment up there, you can be confident that my theory is correct.

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A good theory there, @Blastoise186 but looks like L and G haven’t made things so easy!

 

Another SMETS 2 L and G example

 

Our smart friends have given us the above example showing a SMETS 2 E470, with the button layout that we’ve seen on S1 meters in other setups. :fearful:

 

So the meters themselves really don’t give us any clues! The key difference seems to be the comms hub. Attached to the top of the meter and it’s a SMETS 2, anywhere else on the meter board and it’s a SMETS 1. Let’s hope we don’t find any examples which break this rule! :wink:

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Oh no! Not another weird curveball! :rofl:

What also doesn’t help much is the outdated product image on the L+G website. I’m pretty sure the one with the black display border isn’t really sold in the UK anymore… Right?

In that case, I’ve left my guide as-is for now without making that change. I’m glad I asked first!

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Hello, me again - with the L&G ‘frankenstein’ meter which now turns out to be not so bad after all, but still S1.

 

We’ve been in our house 2 months now, and as yet no sign of the meter being adopted or whatever it’s called.  I asked Octopus Energy about it a few weeks ago - they said they had already started onboarding L&G meters, but couldn’t tell me when mine might be done.

 

What is exercising me is this: I’m on a time of use tariff (which I was on at the previous address) which relies on half hourly meter readings, which they are not getting - so at the moment they are not billing me.  I have read that smart meters store 13 months of data - does that apply to all of them? Will Octopus be able to bill me correctly so long as my meter is adopted within 13 months of the move?

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Howdy!

Ah yes, I’ve heard of this scenario a few times. You should be extremely careful with certain types of Time-of-Use Tariff. Those that actively respond with different rates for every single half-hour period are a serious gamble and you risk being left significantly out of pocket if you get unlucky.

As far as I’m aware, yes. Both the S1 and S2 spec include data retention clauses for up to 13 months by default. But that doesn’t always mean the meter will retain full usage history for that entire period. As long as the data is still in memory, it is possible to retrieve it in-bulk using SMETS Commands. Apparently though, there’s been a lot of complaints about Octopus taking forever to backfill missing usage data and fix the back-billing by rebuilding basically all the billing data. You’ll probably end up with a huge bill all in one go. And this very much assumes Octopus ever manages to actually retrieve all the missing data and rebuild it sufficiently so that they can generate accurate bills. If this continues to be a problem, you may need to consider coming off ToU and switching to an alternative tariff type that’s not so dependent on working Smart Meters.

I also don’t have a crystal ball, so I’m afraid I can’t predict when specific meters will commence Enrolment & Adoption to DCC. L&G meters are especially annoying, because there were multiple networks being used for them - whereas pretty much all other meter brands only had one single network per brand. This makes predicting when any L&G meter might start to migrate basically… Impossible…

So yeah. In theory there is a solution but it’s more likely that an unobtainable crystal ball would be the only fix. Sadly, they don’t exist so there’s not much else you can do for now.

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It’s the Go tariff I’m on - 5p/kWh from 00:30 to 04:30 and another rate for the rest of the time. That’s currently 14.5p for me, but with the way prices are rising, I’d me reluctant to let go of this tariff (fixed till March).  Prices are rising massively - a new customer would be paying 25p for the day rate.

 

Is there anywhere a lay person such as myself can see how far the industry as a whole is through the SMETS 1 enrolment process? Might give me some sort of a clue.  Or anything I can ask Octopus to get useful information?

 

As regards getting a big bill - I’m on a monthly direct debit but am keeping track of how much electricity I’m using and what that would cost if it was all charged at the higher rate - a worst case scenario, if you like.  I’m still in credit.

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Gotcha, fair enough.

While picking up on specific meters is practically impossible, I believe it is indeed possible to get a rough idea of overall progress. That’s not too hard to get hold of!

SmartMe has a Technical page which is regularly updated with some useful stats for example, and there’s also the Network Data Dashboard on DCC which gets at least monthly updates for pretty much all the stats it reports on. I don’t think I can easily find the total count of S1 Meters that are currently active across all suppliers myself, but I can probably ask @Tim_OVO for help with that. He might be able to find someone who can pull the figures out of some kind of magic dashboard. :wink:

Userlevel 7

 

We’ve been in our house 2 months now, and as yet no sign of the meter being adopted or whatever it’s called.  I asked Octopus Energy about it a few weeks ago - they said they had already started onboarding L&G meters, but couldn’t tell me when mine might be done.

 

Welcome back - @bgreenwood2000 and great question to ask about when your L+G meter is likely to be enrolled allowing it to communicate to all suppliers.

 

We’ve got the anticipated time frame for each meter type outlined here - in terms of L+G meters these may complete the process any time between now and March 2022. As suppliers we’re not able to specify when exactly your meter would complete the process as this is being managed by the Data and Communications Company (DCC) - although your supplier should let you know when your meter has been updated.

 

 

As regards getting a big bill - I’m on a monthly direct debit but am keeping track of how much electricity I’m using and what that would cost if it was all charged at the higher rate - a worst case scenario, if you like.  I’m still in credit.

 

I’m surprised to hear that you’re not currently being billed for your usage and we wouldn’t be able to comment on how your half-hourly usage would be billed once the meters complete the enrolment process - I’d recommend checking in with your current supplier to confirm this. It might also be worth checking whether you’re able to submit meter readings manually in the meantime (as we’d recommend doing this for OVO members with non-communicating smart meters).

 

Hope this helps - and do keep us updated when you hear your meter is being enrolled, it’s really helpful to others who might also have a bit of a frankenstein L+G meter! :thumbsup:

 

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