I think this is a popular question for UK households with this meter manufacturer type. Thanks for helping them know what they’ve got on the wall, @Blastoise186. 

Oh and if you’re seeing this and happen to be designing meter names, makes and models, maybe consider making the name of different versions a bit different? 

Definitely agreed there!

I much prefer it when a new model either gets a new model name/number that’s unique for the manufacturer and can be easily identified as being that particular one. At very least, if a model name/number is going to be re-used, it’s appreciated if it’s at least clearly marked in a way that makes it easier to tell apart. So for example, if the S1 L+G E470 meters were marketed, sold and clearly labelled/marked as something like Landis+Gyr E470 Series 1, or Landis+Gyr E470 v1, that would have made it a bit easier to identify. Likewise, it would have been nice if the S2 variants were clearly shown as something like Landis+Gyr E470 Series 2 or Landis+Gyr E470 v2. While not quite as ideal as a completely separate model number, it does at least provide something I can work with as a user.

I very much prefer the way Aclara does it for example. If you’ve got an Aclara SGM1300 Series meter, such as the Aclara SGM1311 Smart Energy Meter with an Aclara SGC1311 Smart Communications Hub, that’s really easy to identify as being SMETS1 hardware - however many of these ones have now being upgraded to SMETS2 firmware and are currently being migrated to DCC.

Likewise, if you’ve got an Aclara SGM1400 Series meter, such as the Aclara SGM1412-B, these are definitely SMETS2 all the way through. It also helps to reduce confusion.

Hello!  Can anyone confirm that this one is SMETS 2?  It’s in a new-build (ex showhome) we should be moving into in July, originally installed by British Gas in May 2018.  No black surround, but the second button is white, not grey. No picture of the IHD, sorry.

Wow, that is just chaos. Why isn’t there a button you can push and it tells you the operational parameters, such as SMETS1 or 2 and which WAN network it is on? 

I know these meters are designed to fit a certain specification, but I am getting more and more the feeling that they are not that smart after all. 

Woah, that seems like some kind of Frankenstein there @bgreenwood2000 .

Please don’t tell me British Gas have hacked or bodged a SMETS2 into a SMETS1 somehow!

I’m afraid I’m unable to identify whether your meter is S1 or S2. It looks like it’s supposed to be S2, but some genius has stuck an S1 Trilliant Comms Hub on it. Great.

Unfortunately, there’s also no button or any easy way that you can do to tell these meters apart other than my guide. If it was an Aclara meter for example, that would be really easy. Or basically any meter brand except Landis+Gyr. Because at least everyone else uses unique model names/numbers and makes enough design changes to help distinguish different models.

Some of the only reliable methods to verify what you’ve got include:

• Doing an ECOES Lookup for Electricity and an Xoserve Lookup for Gas - your supplier can do this for you and it’s completely free of charge
• Using the guides we’ve written on this forum
• Asking us for help on the forum and showing us some snaps of your meters/IHD

In this case, it could be an S2 meter than some genius bodged an S1 comms hub on it, or it could be a total S1 that looks like an S2. If it’s running as an S1, it’ll be on the irritating proprietary Centrica WAN that’s exclusively used by British Gas - so that would basically make it Vendor Lock-In to the max. Not least because switching to any other supplier while that thing is still S1 will definitely make it go dumb. Likewise, switching any other S1 meter that British Gas didn’t install to British Gas would also make it go dumb.

The only way to get them going again is the national upgrade program, but it takes time… I like to call upgraded S1 meters “SMETS1+” or “S1+” for short, but it’s not an official term. They’ll never be true S2, but they’re also no longer pure S1. As for what to call this Frankenstein of a meter… I’m stumped.

I personally think SMETS2 is 500% better than SMETS1 in tons of ways. S2 learned from the mistakes and prevents the Vendor Lock-In issues that S1 had. And that’s just the start.

I’m going to have to admit defeat here I’m afraid, but I’m not going to go down without a fight. And I still have my Joker Card to play. Heya @Tim_OVO ! Can you run an ECOES Lookup on that meter by any chance? The MSN is Z18Q099514.

On closer inspection, the more I look at the photo, the more I begin to suspect this meter really is a Frankenstein. The meter itself definitely looks like it should have been an S2 Landis+Gyr E470 and it even has that blanking cover on top for where an S2 Comms Hub should have been fitted. It also looks like the entire install is absolutely horribly done too. Almost as if the installer didn’t really do a very good job of it.

But instead, the meter has been hacked/bodged/modified to use an external S1 Trilliant SEAP-2001-V Comms Hub, so in effect makes the entire thing run as an S1, which it was not designed to do. This is probably the most horrible example if British Gas handiwork I’ve ever seen and I find it unbelievable that they’d do this. If that was my meter, I’d probably insist on having it ripped out and replaced with a proper S2, because I can already foresee some nasty headaches with the one you’ve got there.

Thanks for sharing this one with us! We’ll keep an eye out for any more of these and I’ll update my guide if needed.

Have L+G stumped even our resident expert, @Blastoise186 ? 

A quick check on Ecoes (the national electricity database) confirms this is a S1 meter, @bgreenwood2000, which throws a curveball into the original guide. Would you be happy for us to use the photo you took to update this as another example of an S1 Landis and Gyr meter?

Do you know what I’ve also just realised to my horror as well?

If this Frankenstein setup has bodged an S1 comms hub onto an S2 electricity meter, I dread to think what kind of monster was fitted for the gas meter if a gas supply was also installed. I’ve got a terrible gut feeling that the gas meter would be an S1 L+G G370 as well, since S1 hardware and S2 hardware are not compatible with each other.

Unless BG somehow managed to find some kind of secret hack, I can only assume the entire site will be S1...

@Jess_OVO yes, happy for you to use the photo.
 

There is gas, but I don’t have a picture of that.  You would hope that British Gas would know how to install a gas meter properly.  OTOH on a new estate I would imagine it’s all subcontracted.

Perfecto! Thanks for that. I’ve already drafted an update that I’m hoping to edit in later, once Jess has a chance to check it over.

I totally agree with you as well about the installation being pretty rubbish. I also begin to wonder if these Frankenstein meters are non-compliant with either S1 or S2 specs. My understanding was always that S1 hardware must only ever be used with S1 hardware and S2 hardware must only ever be used with S2 hardware - with no mix and match being permitted.

Your meter is also so high up the backboard, that fitting any comms hub on top of the meter (which is where they’re supposed to go!) would cause it to overhang and the way it’s all been arranged makes terrible use of the space. But my biggest concern is that with those cables already touching the existing meter in its current state, it’s probably not going to be easy to rectify without re-arranging pretty much everything on the board.

There’s not even any flexibility to move the meter or main fuse around without replacing some of the meter tails!

Having thrown your image into GIMP and zoomed in further, I think I’ve also spotted a possible safety issue that I’m not happy about @bgreenwood2000 . You seem to have some potentially exposed wiring in those cables. It might be worth asking your local Distribution Network Operator to take a look at that, especially as it’s the cables between the meter and main fuse. It might only be the earth cable, but I would rather play it safe anyway.

@Blastoise186 Eek!  Thanks for the heads up about the safety issue.  Will get that looked into as soon as we move in.

No worries! I’m glad I spotted that one!

It could be nothing, but I know that any DNO will always be happy to take a look anyway, just in case. If it does turn out to be a problem, they’ll be able to advise as to what to do next.

It’s extremely tempting for me to recommend seeing if you can get the entire meter switched out to be honest. The current one seems to be so badly installed that I lack confidence it’ll continue to work properly! And I also suspect you’re probably not too keen to go with British Gas either.

Mind you, if one of the cables is already looking dodgy, it’s definitely worth having them all checked out to see if any others are in bad shape. This could be fun. On the plus side, if there really is a problem, I’d consider this to be a possible fault which could result in the meters being MEX’d out and replaced with proper S2 meters for free. I’d be keen to push towards that direction if it were me.

If you need any more help or advice, we’ll always be here for you. there’s just the small matter of the bill for my time… Here’s the breakdown for ya @bgreenwood2000 :

• Time spent researching: 1 hour at £0.00 per hour
• Use of GIMP for image analysis: 1 image at £0.00 per image
• Content writing and editing - 30 minutes at £9999 per minute
• Safety advice: loads of it! At £0.00 per advice
• Special Discounts: 100%

So the final bill is… Well..  £Free. 

Hehehe

“So the final bill is… Well..  £Free. “

Much like my EV’s charge today. Use them while they last, I reckon.

Haha, nice one!

Yup, all the advice and support we offer via this forum is 100% free and never forces you to commit to anything you don’t want to do. The only real difference in the advice you’ll get if you’re an OVO member compared to not being an OVO member, is that we might not have as much info available about other suppliers and can’t reach out to any of their teams. But we’ll always help you out the best we can.

I’ve also gone ahead and updated the guide. I’ll probably make some minor tweaks and fixes later on, but I’m pretty happy with it now. But with that said…

If you happen to have any other weird edge case Landis+Gyr meters, we’d love to know about them! And if you happen to work for L+G or Trilliant, could you give us some tips on how the mysteriously confusing comms hub lights work? It’s a great light show and all, but not very helpful! 

What EV model do you have, @bgreenwood2000? See this comment from Jess, where we looked at feedback about what potential EV owners look at when making a purchase decision. tesla_model_3 (I won’t tag them to avoid a spam attack on their inbox) posted a great review of their Tesla here. What could we do to convince you of the value of creating a review for your latest EV? 

By the way, @Blastoise186, this excellent L&G guide that I’m commenting on is now this community site’s fasting growing piece of content. 874 more visits over the last month then the month before.   

Woah! That’s an absolutely crazy amount of views! I’ve always known that if you want to get noticed, this kind of content is exactly the way to do it. If only some of my other L&G content got the same attention, like this one 

You know, if I got one Point for every view on this thread since it was created, I’d probably end up storming the leaderboard forever. Probably a good thing that it doesn’t do that then. 

Mind you, there’s a small chance that some of OVO’s internal teams may have spotted this thread too… Or possibly half the support team… 

@Tim_OVO I have a Hyundai Kona Premium SE - ex-manager’s car,  with 3,000 miles on the clock when I bought it. 

I absolutely love it, and it’s been painful that I’ve had so little chance to drive it because of lockdown, so really pleased that things are opening up and there are some longer runs on the horizon.  I’ve learned so much about EV’s in the past few months.  I bought it in the middle of the November lockdown, without having driven it, but my hand was forced by my previous car becoming expensively ill, and it made sense to bring forward a planned purchase rather than shell out £££ to keep the old one going a few more months.

I’m ashamed to say that while I researched the model extensively via YouTube and online EV owners’ groups, and chose this one in preference to other makes, there are some really fundamental things about EV’s that I did not know.  Like, the different mindset you need about charging an EV versus fuelling an ICE car, and the fact that it is going to cost me so little to run.  I must have just decided to suck up the higher initial price because it was the right thing to do, I didn’t do my sums at all.

As for a review…. sorry, that sounds like an awful lot of detailed information to put together, and life’s rather busy at the moment.

However, having the EV has really woken me up to energy efficiency and tariff issues, which is a good thing!

No worries @bgreenwood2000 !

I actually have a bit of an offer I’d like to make you.

Once you’ve had some more time to get used to your new wheels, definitely feel free to stop by and give us your thoughts again and update us with what you think. Hopefully by then, your DNO will have had chance to take care of those other issues I mentioned.

If you like this forum and decide to stick around… Good things may happen...

Just as a quick mention…

I can’t include this in my guide properly (for now) because I wasn’t able to get any snaps of these. There is also another slight edge case with the S2 which I’ve encountered today - but at least this time the edge case doesn’t make them Frankenstein Meters! 

I’m not really sure why, but when some of the other meters in the cupboard downstairs were upgraded recently, S2 L+G E470 meters were fitted with S2 Toshiba/WNC SKU1 Cellular Comms Hubs, but were not attached directly to the meters for some reason. Raichu remains the only S2 Aclara down there, but I don’t mind. Not least because at least I can tell Raichu apart from the rest very easily!

Instead, there was some kind of weird attachment fitted to the top of all three meters and a (very loose!) cable goes between the attachment and the Comms Hubs which are wall mounted separately from the meters. Not sure why anyone would do it this way because it seems like this could make it easier to tamper with the meter by cutting the cable that goes to the comms hub… But I guess that’s just how it is.

However, if you do happen to have this edge case, I can confirm that you do still have S2. With that being said, we’d love it if you could snap a photo and share it with us for this guide with your permission. :)

Hi all. From previous posts am I unfortunate enough to have another Frankenstein? This was installed in a new build flat 12/18 and since moving from British Gas in 2019 display obviously stopped working. I was trying to register with Bright to make it easier to track my usage but they’ve come back to me to say I can’t. Any advice for getting it upgraded I’m currently with Symbio.

much appreciated.

Heya @Brilldan !

Yup, I’m afraid you are indeed correct in your guess. From my understanding, that meter might start to get migrated to DCC sometime around Autumn/Winter 2021 but I personally have concerns that it’s going to break due to being a Frankenstein. It’s unlikely that even the Bright App will work anytime soon as that meter is still on the terrible Centrica WAN that’s exclusive to BG. The app might work after the meter is migrated, but again that assumes it can be migrated. We’ve no idea if these Frankenstein Meters can do so without getting bricked.

It’s also another one of those 2018 manufactured L+G E470 meters too… Great...

Those cables though… They look pretty bent to me…

When I think about it, there’s only two options. Sorry for these edits, the editor is being a bit weird today for me. If the meter fails to migrate properly, I’d recommend seeing if your supplier is willing to replace it with a proper SMETS2 meter. While the one you have can theoretically be converted to proper S2, I have no idea whether the hacks that BG have done to these things prevent them from ever being true S2’s.

Some suppliers might be willing to swap it out with a Meter Exchange (MEX) for free, so it’s worth asking.

Please bear with me for a minute. I’m just going to pull that image into GIMP to analyse it a bit more closely.

As I suspected…

There appears to be possible signs of cable damage in your setup, which may have been caused by the way that your meter was installed. The cables that get used for meter tails have some pretty thick and chunky cores that do not bend easily into really tight u-bends. And it appears someone has tried to force those cables to do exactly that.

I will admit that it’s possible I’m being overly cautious about this, but I have a bit of a concern about your meter tails being squashed up so tightly against the meter and the circuit breaker next to it. If that Trilliant Comms Hub wasn’t there, the circuit breaker could have easily been fitter further to the right and reduced the need for such extreme angles.

I’d therefore definitely recommend getting in touch with your local Distribution Network Operator (DNO) and ask them for advice on what to do about this. Pretty much all of them are happy to at least give you some advice and take a look at it free of charge.

If you’re unsure of how to find these details, we’ve got a handy guide right over here.

I hope this helps you @Brilldan . But if you need anything else, we’ll be here. :)

Thanks @Blastoise186 I will take a look at your guide and see.

I wonder if I can insist BG replace it due to the poor installation even if they aren’t my provider anymore?

No worries @Brilldan ! I’m always glad to help with these things. 

I’m afraid British Gas are definitely not the people to ask about a replacement meter, not least because they’re no longer your supplier. And if they did replace it, you’ll probably end up with another Landis+Gyr E470 again which is definitely not an ideal option. Your current supplier Symbio might be willing to do a MEX though. See what they say! :)