You’re welcome. Personally, I’m all for constructive contributions as they help a ton. Even the ones we do backstage often lead to breakthroughs that we then make public… Or they sometimes just end up being us chatting away for fun. Either way, it keeps us busy and we enjoy it.

It’s getting late, so I’ll be heading to bed once I’ve serviced the last couple of questions that have been posted today. Knowing my luck though, Western Power Distribution will probably panic about something and post here again… :)

I am not seeking debate on Electro sensitivity science is only as valid as the criteria used to measure it .

My question was how to avoid Smart metering, which it seems is not possible if it is set up to replace  an E7 meter as they need to differentiate night and day usage for the tariff.  

1. can I ask NOT to have a dual read meter to replace the old one with a fault? My current tariff is a price per unit irrespective of time of day.
2. If there is provision for medical evidence as to NOT having smart metering and getting it set to DUMB settings, what is acceptable
3. Is there any company willing to offer NON Smart metering

Thanks so much and I apologise for this digressing in the flawed world of science !!! 

That’s the snag.

Every supplier I’ve checked so far has confirmed or at least reported that their remaining stocks of traditional credit meters have been depleted to zero and they’re not willing and/or able to switch off Smart functionality. Octopus also commented that they don’t think any supplier can easily source more either. It sounds like even if a supplier wanted to install non-smart, they’d have a nightmare doing so.

Essentially no company can offer a new non-smart meter unfortunately. I’m afraid there would be no medical evidence to not having a smart meter unless you went with an unapproved holistic alternative which wouldn’t be accepted anywhere.  
 

I sympathise with your position and how you’re feeling, wish there was a better answer for this 

Thank you. 

I think it should be possible to turn off the transmission part in the comms hub of any smart meter. The meter may still need to be able to receive transmissions, though, and this is radiation that you’re not going to be able to avoid any more than mobile phone or television signals .  

I’m afraid there’s no known SMETS Command for it though. The ability to shut off the transmissions at all was (if my understanding is correct) completely nuked from S2 during development.

And as part of networking protocols like TCP/IP, the recipient must reply to confirm receipt of whatever was sent to it, otherwise the packets will be re-sent. It’s the same here with Smart Meters. No response may result in multiple retries.

Hi @TLC2023 i suspect you are not going to make any more progress on this thread.

All i can suggest is you have a full diagnosis of your condition from a GMC (General Medical Council) registered practitioner (private or NHS) and get their opinion in writing as to whether you can't have a smart meter.

https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register

If you get that in writing, then speak to your current supplier. 

Thank you all so much for your replies. It is a very sad society we live in where personal choice is eroded.  I think I am most upset because my supplier assured me I could have a DUMB meter in February and that has been denied.. 

Hi,

I just wanted to circle back onto this one with an update.

I’ve spoken directly to two of OVO’s senior managers today who lead the Smart Metering stuff. They’re about as high as you can go and are my go-to for these things. I just don’t tend to get to chat with them directly very often.

They’ve confirmed the following. Please be advised that these words are theirs and not mine:

• Smart Functionality CANNOT be disabled on SMETS2 kit under any circumstances whatsoever
• The ability to disable Smart Functionality on SMETS1 no longer exists and possibly never even existed at all
• There is no “Dumb Mode” option available - the only Mode available is Smart Mode
• The Comms Hub, IHD and Meters will start transmitting the very moment any of them gets powered up - this is “fire and forget” out-of-the-box behaviour and engineers cannot override this, nor disable it
• Public Health England has already completed a full review into the health and safety of Smart Meters and found zero issues and no triggers that could set off EHS symptoms
• EHS does not exist (again, their words and not mine) and there’s no medical practitioner who will diagnose it
• That someone who truly does have EHS wouldn’t even be able to have Sky TV, leave the house, go near lampposts, walk down the street or even go near police officers, paramedics or firefighters due to the Airwave Network and TETRA Radios (and the underlying Vodafone system running them) being very powerful. In other words, such a person wouldn’t be able to even leave the house - all the RFI/EMI noise from every possible source would be unbearable (and I personally agree with this point based on the longer and more technical explanation provided to all the forum volunteers in the call)
• There are no longer options to acquire Traditional/Heritage Meters because stocks have dried up and none are being manufactured anymore

This will probably become the de-facto answer I give going forwards to anyone else who brings this up.

thanks for this rather dystopian news… No choice, no option  no preference… Only option I guess is to be off grid.. thank you so much for investigating this.. For the time being since one of the dials on our meter is turning all the time, we have reached an arrangement for my meter to stay in place …. Thanks for all the support and input . so grateful 

Anyone know if Ofgem can fine an electricity company for setting a smart meter in dumb mode so it acts like an ordinary meter, not transmitting at all? Can this be done when the customer does not want a smart meter and has objected from the star. Does a customer have to accept a smart meter, against their will? 

Hi @Collie Dog ,

“Dumb Mode” no longer exists and can no longer be enabled - it’s also impossible on SMETS2 because it has never been supported. It has been removed from SMETS1 as part of the DCC Migration.

IIRC the enabling of “Dumb Mode” is also no longer permitted anyway, even on meters that still support it - which should be none of them at this point.

There is no method to request “Dumb Mode” either - the meter will be Smart from the moment it’s installed and you can’t downgrade later.

You’re required to accept whatever meter the Supplier chooses to install. Until your current one reaches End of Service Life OR you sign a supply contract that requires a Smart Meter OR it becomes impossible to continue using the existing meter for any reason, it’s optional. However, if you move into a property that already has one, it will NOT be removed or disabled. Once it’s on the wall, there’s no going back.

Please see your previous question for more info:

Hey @Collie Dog,

As @Blastoise186 has pointed out, if your meter needs to be replaced due to end-of-life or an issue with it, then a smart meter would be fitted. Older-style traditional meters have long passed their production period, and we’ve been using smart meters for a long time now. 
 
Do you have any specific reservations or misconceptions about smart meters that we can help you with? 

Thank you, you are so kind. Being a 70 year old pensioner and not ‘electronic’ savvy’, we are moving into a bungalow for health reasons that unfortunately has a smart meter, The provider promised as part of the contract to turn it off, i.e. into Dumb Mode if we ‘went with them’ and left out current provider, which we did, as we believed them. Now some 10 weeks later they refuse to honour the contract and have sent this reason, can anyone ‘translate’ it into English please, as we are getting nowhere with the company concerned? 

“"As I mentioned, unfortunately we cannot put the meter into dumb mode as the firmware installed on smart meters is put in place for security purposes and putting the meter into dumb mode would compromise this leading to us breaching our licencing conditions. I had also explained that unfortunately, we are no longer installing credit meters so this also would not be an option.”

(It could be in a foreign language as far as we are concerned?)

We do not like the idea of transmitting meters and do not trust the smart meter it is just our choice and cannot be persuaded to agree with them, I prefer to read my own meter and call in with the figures personally.

You can still submit your own readings anytime you want - even with a Smart Meter. Just phone them through as you’ve done previously.

There is nothing to fear - the meter won’t do anything crazy, it’ll literally just submit a reading once a month on your behalf if you don’t want your supplier knowing more than that - and it’ll be the exact same reading you’d phone through manually. All it means is that if you forget, you’ve got a safety net.

But your supplier is correct - the meter cannot just be disabled as it would cause a security issue if that were to happen. Suppliers must take all reasonable steps to keep their stuff secure and doing something that deliberately breaches that rule is a big no-no. And besides that, even if they did disable it now, there’d be absolutely nothing to prevent them from just silently re-enabling it later anyway.

The “we’ll turn it off if you ask us” thing HAS NEVER been a valid clause in any supply contract. The refusal to honour it is not considered a breach of contract, because it was never part of the contract in the first place. On the contrary, honouring it will breach the licence conditions that the supplier must obey and result in Ofgem punishing the supplier - this is ultimately why your supplier is unable to fulfil your request.

When you move into a property, you enter into a bunch of legally binding agreements automatically, not just the ones you explicitly sign before you get the keys. Arguably, it could be said that you accepted the state of the property at the time you moved in was to your liking - including whatever meters were on the wall. If you don’t like something about the property, the long standing advice has always been to walk away from the deal.

Stocks of Traditional Meters (as in Non-Smart ones) have basically dried up at this point across all suppliers. There’s barely any left in any inventories and over 99% of those are either already dead, used for testing/training or are getting too close to expiry to re-deploy. The meter manufacturers turned off the production lines for pretty much all of them around a decade ago, so there’s been no new stocks of those meters for quite some time now.

You might not want to hear this, but your best option may well be to just abandon the complaint about the meter and just pursue the fact you had bad advice i.e. were told you could do something that can’t be done.

Hey @Collie Dog,

​I hope your move into your new home wasn't too stressful and you're settling in. 

What they're trying to explain to you could be clearer. Basically, they're telling you that once the meter has been installed, it can't be turned off or put into what you call "dumb mode". Are you in a fixed-term contract with your current supplier, or do you know if it's a variable tariff? You might be able to switch to another supplier if it's the latter. 

If you prefer to call with your figures, you can still do this, and your supplier can update these as customer-supplied readings. If you didn't have a smart meter, it would limit who you could move to in the future, as some suppliers only accept smart meters. I'm an example of this. I have one of the old key meters I need to run to the store when I forget to top it up. I'm stuck with my current supplier as few suppliers are taking on customers like me. 

The "transmitting readers" will only transmit your meter's usage or readings, which helps with the energy network. Smart meters help by telling the grid when it's being used the most and the least to help balance how much energy is needed. As I said, if you wanted to call with your own readings, then your supplier would be happy to update them manually for you. 

Let me know if this helps break it down a little for you. 

Ovo say emf is not a concern as radiation emits only when scheduled to send readings which can be as little as once a month.  However all the info given re smart meters say they give readings every half hour which is a lot more than once a month.

Am I missing something?

Yes. .. the readings don’t ‘transmit’ each half hour but are simply stored until the transfer. 
 

It is also worth mentioning once again that there’s tons of EMI/RFI/EMF flying about all over the planet, including from natural sources like the sun and the earths core. After all, that’s exactly how compasses are able to work!

Police Officers get exposed to EMI/RFI/EMF more than most people - their TETRA Radios that run on the Airwave network are significantly more powerful than most stuff you can buy yourself. Yet they’re still able to work just fine. Likewise, I live in a flat full of the stuff from tons of Ubiquiti UniFi kit and it is yet to fry my brain and zombify me. And that’s despite having a Ubiquiti UniFi nanoHD above my bed when I sleep at night.

And yep, I do have Smart Meters - they work just fine and don’t zap my brain either.

If it was all harmful, you’d be dead by now from all those sources that existed long before Smart Meters did.

Thanks for reply.  So how often are they transferred?

Once a night - usually between midnight and 5am.

Thank you

Don’t forget the transmission from the smart gas meter (if fitted) to the electricity meter, which happens perhaps every half-hour, and from the meter to the IHD every 10 seconds. That’s a slightly different sort of radiation, though, but equally benign. 

Hey @TrishM, 

I can see our volunteers have already gave some great insight so far. You can also find more information on a study conducted by the UKHSA (UK health security agency) at this link here. The main consensus is that smart meters and the emissions are far lower that the recommended limits and are considered safe. 

I hope this helps! 

I’d like to take advantage of a lower cost rate but can’t unless I agree to having a smart meter fitted. I don’t want one.

I think that I recall reading elsewhere, that I can request having the smart functions disabled, effectively it becoming simply a replacement meter.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

Thank you for any help.