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March 18, 2023
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Economy 7 tariff changes on SMETS2 meter but fifth terminal not activating at all!

  • March 18, 2023
  • 39 replies
  • 2177 views

Hi, hoping someone may be able to help with this - I’m having an absolute NIGHTMARE trying to get through to a OVO/SSE department who is able to help progress this.

Not sure if they’re going through a change with call centres or the like but there’s a language barrier happening and the operators, in the several departments I’ve tried to speak to, over several hours, can’t understand the technical aspects and vocabulary such as fifth terminal, secondary contactor, etc, only picking up on words like ‘heating’ ‘not’ ‘working’ until eventually I was put through to a lady in Scotland who is in the home cover insurance department for when your boiler or water heater stops working!

Any help in getting through to the proper support line would be really helpful - I can sympathise with the call centres abroad not understanding the technical aspects, as it’s a totally different language for everyone whatever their first language - but at the moment I have a OSO 210L water heater that’s only half-working (on a very expensive day tariff!) because the fifth terminal which feeds the bottom element isn’t getting any electricity during the night when it should.

Basically, I had an Alcara SGM1416-B smart meter fitted a few days ago, and noticed the bottom element didn’t kick in during the night (more obvious now that I have a smart monitor to help look for the 3kW spikes).  Second night, after reading the Alcara manual to work out what I should look out for, I stayed up until 00:30 to check the status of the secondary contactor, which should show a ‘closed’ switch symbol around this time when the tariff changes from day to night (I can confirm the night-tariff changeover is working fine, on 00:30, off 07:30).  As far as any movement goes on the secondary contactor - not a sausage - no change on the digital display - no click heard like before.

 

Apologies not easy to see but bottom right of digital display shows open switch symbol (o/o) for secondary contactor when it should show closed (o-o).  This taken just after 00:30 tariff change.
Much easier to see on this photo, bottom right of digital display, secondary contactor still open (o/o).  This taken just before tariff changes back to day rate.

Fortunately I had the installer’s mobile number, so called him, and he suggested it’s a faulty meter and needs to be sorted - but I’d need to go through customer service to organise this - which is proving a very difficult problem!!!  I seem only to be left with writing to Smart Customer Services at the Havant address, but this would seem to be a very long way around.

I’ve just messaged the installer to ask if he did an ECAUL and waiting a response - not sure though if he might go silent on me because he has plenty to be getting on with.  I know the tariff change may not exactly correspond to the secondary contactor change (hence the ECAUL query) but in this case it’s not activating at all, at any time throughout the day.

All help and guidance will be gratefully received.  Many thanks in advance.

 

PS You may also notice that the smart monitor is not fully configuring - showing 0.000p standing charge - that would be nice 😶

Best answer by Tim_OVO

Updated on 20/07/26 by Ben_OVO

*update on this @SteveBee :

 

I’m told that with smart meters connected with a 5th port,  the tariff and ALCS schedule are separate objects in the meter, and they both need to be set for the 5th terminal (or any ALCS connection) to work.

 

The team found your meter based on its serial number and they could see that the ALCS calendar wasn't set on that one, they're not quite sure why. It has been set now.

 

As a result, this should now be fixed. Please let us know.

 

39 replies

Newcomer
November 27, 2023
*edited by moderator* ","meterType":"S2BDE","mapId":"SGNS","lineLossFactorClassId":"104","registers":[{"tier":1,"clockingTimeId":374,"timeOfUseLabel":"offpeak","meterRegisterId":"1","timePatternRegime":374,"measurementQuantityId":"AI","switchedLoadIndicator":true,"meterRegisterMultiplier":1,"registerMappingCoefficient":"1"},{"tier":2,"clockingTimeId":375,"timeOfUseLabel":"peak","meterRegisterId":"2","timePatternRegime":375,"measurementQuantityId":"AI","switchedLoadIndicator":false,"meterRegisterMultiplier":1,"registerMappingCoefficient":"1"}],"start":"2018-11-07T00:00:00.000Z","end":null,"fuel":"Electricity","meterNoOfDigitsOrDials":5}]
Newcomer
November 27, 2023

 

BPLightlog
Super User
Super User
November 27, 2023

You might want to delete your location and meter information in the previous data post @pegem 

Bring me Sunshine ~ E&E {Solar PV, Battery Storage, Hybrid EV, ASHP and Home Assistant automation}
Newcomer
November 27, 2023
Off-Peak

 

Firedog
Super User
Super User
November 27, 2023

Brilliant, thanks. Here’s your problem, I think:
  

[{"tier":1,"clockingTimeId":374,"timeOfUseLabel":"offpeak","meterRegisterId":"1","timePatternRegime":374, ...
...{"tier":2,"clockingTimeId":375,"timeOfUseLabel":"peak","meterRegisterId":"2","timePatternRegime":375, …

 

The TPRs look like the right ones for an E10 tariff, but they’re applied to the wrong registers. DCC (who collect usage data and readings for suppliers and others to access) expect the first register to record peak usage. I’m not sure whether they look for the tier number or the register ID, but in your case they’re the same anyway. Your first register (tier 1) is recording offpeak usage:
SSC: 0935   TPR: 00374   Timings: All days 0000-0500, 1300-1600, 2000-2200   Name: Off Peak

It seems that when the readings reach OVO, the contents of the first register are wrongly assigned to peak and - more worryingly - billed as such. 

I think this is quite simple to rectify by means of remote commands from OVO’s metering team, so you should contact support (webchat might be best, so you can copy and paste stuff like this post) and ask them to persuade Metering to reconfigure your TPRs: Tier 1 should be TPR 375, tier 2 TPR 374.

At the same time, I’d suggest you ask for your reading frequency to be changed to half-hourly. This gives you much more clarity about your consumption. It used to be the default, but it seems that it’s reverted to monthly during recent meter installations. You should also ask to have your bills corrected for the period from when this started (probably when the meter was installed) up to the date of the TPR fix.

Last, your photos show (I think) that LC2 (the Load Control for your storage heaters) is active, so there should be power to the heaters. If this was during what should be an offpeak period, then the LC is working as designed. If it wasn’t, scream!

 

Full disclosure: I went through a similar experience following a meter exchange a few weeks ago. Support were able to get the TPRs fixed and the reading frequency changed back to half-hourly, where it had always been previously.

Noel | I have no official status; I'm just a volunteer who comes here to help other customers. My gear: Aclara SGM 1416-B Electricity-only E7 meter; Chameleon IHD3-PPMID-AAA | It may look as if I know what I’m talking about, but don’t let that fool you. |
Newcomer
November 27, 2023

Thank you very much, it looks like that is what's happening. You obviously know your stuff! it's a bit technical for me but I think I've got it!

We shouldn't have to do this sort of investigation, I’ve got time, but what about all those who don't have time or who accept what OVO have set up!

Thanks again, I’ll waste another 3 hours on web chat with numpties who don't have a clue! I’ll let you know how I get on.

Emmanuelle_OVO
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
November 28, 2023

Hey @pegem,

 

Let us know if you have any issues getting through to the support team. 

Renewable Energy? Big Fan.
Newcomer
November 28, 2023

We have now been told that OVO don't offer E10 & we should never have been offered it! It appears that we had a Smart Meter fitted on Economy 10 with SSE in March. When we migrated to OVO in August Economy 10 wasn't a tariff OVO offered so we have been on E7 since But NOBODY TOLD US!! The local setup still thinks we are on E10 and the heating etc. still boosts for 10 hours per day, but that means 5 hours at expensive heating! The charging pattern on Storage Radiators is still E10 but we have losing  5 hours of cheap electricity a day! OVO are registering on their system, at best E7 at worst flat rate. There's talk of compensation, well see! Disgraceful! We can't be the only customers affect by this.

It explains why it was so difficult to reconcile readings with usage!

Firedog
Super User
Super User
November 28, 2023

That is disgraceful, and I wonder if you were misled. If I visit plans.ovoenergy.com and enter a postcode near yours, then select filters for Electricity | Available for sale | Multi rate | Direct Debit,  I find this option:
  

  
I can’t imagine why they would advertise it for sale, but then claim not to offer it.

 

Noel | I have no official status; I'm just a volunteer who comes here to help other customers. My gear: Aclara SGM 1416-B Electricity-only E7 meter; Chameleon IHD3-PPMID-AAA | It may look as if I know what I’m talking about, but don’t let that fool you. |
Newcomer
November 28, 2023

Thanks for that, As I understand it E10 is fine on traditional meters, it's so called 'Smart' meters that are incompatible. Why I don't know. Two months I've been trying to get this sorted!