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Rank 2
March 23, 2022
Solved

Are my solar PV panels connected to my smart meter and measuring my exports correctly?

  • March 23, 2022
  • 44 replies
  • 13155 views

We recently in Dec 2021 had a large PV solar install completed on our house.  A new 24 panel [385W each] Solar array at 8kW by a seemingly professional company. Disappointingly the install has issues, the main one being that the house utilty meter has the same consumption rate as before the solar install started!  This suggests there is wiring config. or equipment fault issue somewhere or the meter cannot cope with Solar supply since we are having large Solar Yields!

        Either way we are none the closer to getting either the solar installer coming back to fix it in a hurry [I don’t think they understand it!] or the Utility company to check  the meter!   All this in rapidly rising energy prices ….. pause to weep …… seriously this is cry for help please, we have spent a fortune for nothing! 

       One thing that stands out to me, being a lighting engineer [as a I have some electrical knowledge - although a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!] is that the Solar Installer has wired the Solar Arrays Inverted 240V output not direct to our Consumer Board but has put it through our Utility Meter with the grid supply [on a single split combined cable]. When I asked the solar installers engineer how the Utility Meter can tell the difference between electricity we are consuming direct from the grid or through the Solar he just shrugged his shoulders and exclaimed that it just can! Personally rightly or wrongly i am unconvinced!

I attach an image of our electrical utilty meter [ a SMET 1 – Elster AS300P] cupboard with the solar installers wiring config  displayed. Please the question to those in the know is should the Solar always be through the consumer unit first [as in schematic A] or through the utilty meter [as in schematic B] shown , or does it depend on  other factors?

Any help or direction most welcome.

Best answer by PeterR1947

@mattwillhill  There is no way that meter will measure export as the PV is not connected through it.  If the PV was connected as every other one I have seen, i.e. though the consumer unit, your Elster meter would be able to measure the export.

 

All meters are clever enough to sense which direction current is flowing through them.  With non-smart meters, if the very old variety the spinning wheel would go backwards, the electronic ones would display “RED” (Reverse Electricity Generated).

 

A Smart meter is smart!  if you are exporting to the grid, this is sensed and measured as export which you now know how to read and when you are not exporting the meter measures the consumption.  When you are generating but less than the house is using, the meter will simply show the reduced rate so your monthly PV generation will reduce the consumption you are seeing at present.  On thinking further about what I said earlier, I don’t think a PV installer is allowed to connect directly to an incoming supply, only your DNO is allowed to make these connections, perhaps @Transparent  can confirm that

44 replies

Newcomer
September 15, 2022

If you Right click and open image in new tab,  then left click the image it opens fully.

Newcomer
September 15, 2022

What you signed for looks okay, what you have is wrong.
It also looks like they have used smaller tails between the Henley block and the original meter (could be wrong but they look different in the photo). 

I would be tempted to contact the council surveyors department, they usually have their own electrical engineering team.

good luck 

If things don't change, they stay the same!
Rank 2
September 15, 2022

It’s the same error as was mine.
[Fundamentally the on- site installer fails to understand what he has to achieve and/or is confused].

Your PV generation meter is telling you that you have flow and positive solar power but it cannot be read by your “grid (import) meter” because it is being flowed through it like it’s part of the import - like a double billing! 

Obviously having confirmed it here for reassurance simply collate this evidence and write to both the installer and the most suitable body from Council who appoints the installer [it’s not clear who this is] asking for them to amend the wiring and compensate you for the lost and added PV Power.  I would of course highlight and impress upon them that this is a matter of urgency with high energy bills and that the amount of compensation is escalating by the day! 

It goes without saying, don’t get a third party involved or attempt and corrective remedial wiring yourself.  Good luck. 

 

 

Emmanuelle_OVO
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
September 15, 2022

Hey @NottinghamSolar,

 

I knew our community members would have some top tip advice here! 

 

What you signed for looks okay, what you have is wrong.
It also looks like they have used smaller tails between the Henley block and the original meter (could be wrong but they look different in the photo). 

I would be tempted to contact the council surveyors department, they usually have their own electrical engineering team.

 

​Obviously having confirmed it here for reassurance simply collate this evidence and write to both the installer and the most suitable body from Council who appoints the installer [it’s not clear who this is] asking for them to amend the wiring and compensate you for the lost and added PV Power.  I would of course highlight and impress upon them that this is a matter of urgency with high energy bills and that the amount of compensation is escalating by the day! 

 

 

I think @ArundaleP and @mattwillhill are spot on here. 

 

Keep us posted with how you get, this could help customers with similar issues in the future. 

 

Renewable Energy? Big Fan.
Newcomer
September 15, 2022

Hello, Thank you for all the help with this. have just been on the phone with the guy who tells the electrician what to do and he says the wiring we’ve had done is correct.

He said he’s had a lot of people asking the same questions.

He said that the supplier would deduct money off our bill with some tariff.

I then asked if we would be payed back the same amount we pay for each unit of electricity and he did sound like he said yes , but very feint.I asked him again to clarify and then he said no.

So we will be paid via the Export meter but not the same rate that we pay for it on the import meter. This is ridiculous and goes against the wiring schematic that we signed this offer on.

I’m going to have to have a lie down as i’m rather agitated by this :-) I can’t believe that they think this is right.

I will be contacting the council as you asked, but I can only guess they are in on this utterly wrong installation method.

Thanks again.

 

Newcomer
September 15, 2022

Hello, Thank you for all the help with this. have just been on the phone with the guy who tells the electrician what to do and he says the wiring we’ve had done is correct.

He said he’s had a lot of people asking the same questions.

He said that the supplier would deduct money off our bill with some tariff.

I then asked if we would be payed back the same amount we pay for each unit of electricity and he did sound like he said yes , but very feint.I asked him again to clarify and then he said no.

So we will be paid via the Export meter but not the same rate that we pay for it on the import meter. This is ridiculous and goes against the wiring schematic that we signed this offer on.

I’m going to have to have a lie down as i’m rather agitated by this :-) I can’t believe that they think this is right.

I will be contacting the council as you asked, but I can only guess they are in on this utterly wrong installation method.

Thanks again.

 

I would contact your energy provider (billing company) because I would imagine they won’t be happy that anyone has wired anything on the grid side of the meter (perhaps mention the term “bypassed the meter”). Failing that the DNO would be the next call.
Do you have the building regs electrical certificate from the installer? 

If things don't change, they stay the same!
Blastoise186
Super User
Super User
September 15, 2022

!!!WARNING! CRITICAL SAFETY ISSUES DETECTED!!!

 

Please contact your DNO immediately in the morning.

That clown of an electrician has made your setup extremely unsafe. The meter tails should be the same size throughout the entire installation and absolutely nothing should be wired grid side except for the Service Fuse and Import Meter. This is technically meter bypassing and could get you in trouble for abstracting electricity. I’m satisfied you’re not doing it deliberately, so I won’t report this to Stay Energy Safe but this really needs to be fixed ASAP.

In the meantime, please consider shutting down your solar panels and inverter, to prevent any back feeding or potential fires. This installation completely fails code and should never have been done this way.

I strongly recommend you report the installer to the authorities as well. As far as I’m concerned, they appear to be a cowboy and shouldn’t be allowed to continue.

I’m seriously concerned that this is also the case for other installations as well. Please could you send a link to this thread to the council for us? They will want to see this.

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way! Remember, I'm just like you - AI Powered Evil Geniuses aren't Staff!
Rank 2
September 16, 2022

Don’t get discouraged by their telephone response, they are off-guard and on-guard at the same time! A telephone call rarely cuts it.

Continue to write to the responsible Council team and write to the installer to let them know that they are liable for any faulty wiring and that they should send a senior engineer to inspect. I am not sure the DNS would engage but this is because my DNS did not when I attempted but you could try. 

It’s important at this stage for you to relay the difference in the wiring diagrams and that your grid meter is not recognising any Export values! All diagrams and photo evidence should support your correspondence. These things rarely are solved quickly you will need patience and belief to continue to stand your ground. 

One other route you could try is to call in your electrical supply company, like EON, EDF or British Gas and get them to rewire it and write a report. You then INVOICE the original electrical installer pursue with a small claims court if they fail to reimburse you. 

All the best
Matt

 

The easiest way to explain the error is as follows;

Incorrect wiring has the DNS outputs errantly removed from the Grid Meter and terminated in a junction box which is shared with the solar inverter, the consumer unit & the grid meter.  [Note: The DNS direct outputs cannot be removed from the Grid Meter, nor be split, shared or go indirectly to the Grid Meter.]

Correct wiring has the DNS outputs kept straight to the Grid Meter. The Solar Inverter PV supply is terminated in a junction box and is shared with the Consumer Unit and the other side of the Grid Meter. 

Newcomer
September 16, 2022

 I would contact your energy provider (billing company) because I would imagine they won’t be happy that anyone has wired anything on the grid side of the meter (perhaps mention the term “bypassed the meter”). Failing that the DNO would be the next call.
Do you have the building regs electrical certificate from the installer? 

 

I will get around to it had a hectic day today with drunken scaffolding removers, but that’s another story :-)

Not seen any Building regs or electrical cert from installer.

Thanks again for all responses.

Newcomer
September 16, 2022

Don’t get discouraged by their telephone response, they are off-guard and on-guard at the same time! A telephone call rarely cuts it.

Continue to write to the responsible Council team and write to the installer to let them know that they are liable for any faulty wiring and that they should send a senior engineer to inspect. I am not sure the DNS would engage but this is because my DNS did not when I attempted but you could try. 

It’s important at this stage for you to relay the difference in the wiring diagrams and that your grid meter is not recognising any Export values! All diagrams and photo evidence should support your correspondence. These things rarely are solved quickly you will need patience and belief to continue to stand your ground. 

One other route you could try is to call in your electrical supply company, like EON, EDF or British Gas and get them to rewire it and write a report. You then INVOICE the original electrical installer pursue with a small claims court if they fail to reimburse you. 

All the best
Matt

 

The easiest way to explain the error is as follows;

Incorrect wiring has the DNS outputs errantly removed from the Grid Meter and terminated in a junction box which is shared with the solar inverter, the consumer unit & the grid meter.  [Note: The DNS direct outputs cannot be removed from the Grid Meter, nor be split, shared or go indirectly to the Grid Meter.]

Correct wiring has the DNS outputs kept straight to the Grid Meter. The Solar Inverter PV supply is terminated in a junction box and is shared with the Consumer Unit and the other side of the Grid Meter. 

Thank you. I will take on your advice, had a mad day today.

Thanks for all information. 

Paul.