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Are my solar PV panels connected to my smart meter and measuring my exports correctly?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
March 23, 2022
44 replies
13155 views

We recently in Dec 2021 had a large PV solar install completed on our house. A new 24 panel [385W each] Solar array at 8kW by a seemingly professional company. Disappointingly the install has issues, the main one being that the house utilty meter has the same consumption rate as before the solar install started! This suggests there is wiring config. or equipment fault issue somewhere or the meter cannot cope with Solar supply since we are having large Solar Yields!

Either way we are none the closer to getting either the solar installer coming back to fix it in a hurry [I don’t think they understand it!] or the Utility company to check the meter! All this in rapidly rising energy prices ….. pause to weep …… seriously this is cry for help please, we have spent a fortune for nothing!

One thing that stands out to me, being a lighting engineer [as a I have some electrical knowledge - although a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!] is that the Solar Installer has wired the Solar Arrays Inverted 240V output not direct to our Consumer Board but has put it through our Utility Meter with the grid supply [on a single split combined cable]. When I asked the solar installers engineer how the Utility Meter can tell the difference between electricity we are consuming direct from the grid or through the Solar he just shrugged his shoulders and exclaimed that it just can! Personally rightly or wrongly i am unconvinced!

I attach an image of our electrical utilty meter [ a SMET 1 – Elster AS300P] cupboard with the solar installers wiring config displayed. Please the question to those in the know is should the Solar always be through the consumer unit first [as in schematic A] or through the utilty meter [as in schematic B] shown , or does it depend on other factors?

Any help or direction most welcome.

Best answer by PeterR1947

@mattwillhill There is no way that meter will measure export as the PV is not connected through it. If the PV was connected as every other one I have seen, i.e. though the consumer unit, your Elster meter would be able to measure the export.

All meters are clever enough to sense which direction current is flowing through them. With non-smart meters, if the very old variety the spinning wheel would go backwards, the electronic ones would display “RED” (Reverse Electricity Generated).

A Smart meter is smart! if you are exporting to the grid, this is sensed and measured as export which you now know how to read and when you are not exporting the meter measures the consumption. When you are generating but less than the house is using, the meter will simply show the reduced rate so your monthly PV generation will reduce the consumption you are seeing at present. On thinking further about what I said earlier, I don’t think a PV installer is allowed to connect directly to an incoming supply, only your DNO is allowed to make these connections, perhaps @Transparent can confirm that

Show previous replies

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Graham110011

Newcomer

My method would a) discover the nature of the issue (for free), b) give time for the original installer to respond and correct (10 days is fair) c) fix the issue one way or another d) get a fair outcome and protect others overall if they need to be reported (if needs be). Then my final suggestion, about getting a quick look over, ensures against any possible fire or panel breakaway hazard. Given that the connection looks to be before the meter (which is illegal) it makes great sense for all parties (including those in the future) to be protected.

There’s no loyalty - just safety and doing what’s right by everyone.

if they can’t do it, they can’t do it.

Ps… sorry Tim :)

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mattwillhillAuthor

Rank 2

Graham110011

Thanks for your continued pondering. When you say discover the nature of the issue (for free) you mean by getting a quote from empower energy? :)

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Graham110011

Newcomer

I’m sure they would be happy to identify and quote, yes. Or from anyone that’s considered a qualified third party. It’s more about getting some “other” company to take responsibility (sign off) on the work (confirm correct or pull your fuse) as it currently stands. A company that has no connection to the original company. You can use the one I suggested - they installed my system which charges my car and covers my current daily usage - or any other “regulated” company.

I wish you the very best - but when it’s potentially below the meter, it’s not a tech forum issue involving stats, it’s about legality and safety.

again- best of luck

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mattwillhillAuthor

Rank 2

UPDATE as of 06 April 2022

I’d like to thank all those who contributed to this thread.

As many of us suspected the installer eventually admitted they had wired it incorrectly and changed it as we had all thought, finally everything fell in to place.

Here is the rewired Elster meter. Its a shame there are NOT standard referal drawings for meters but i guess if the paid professionals get it wrong the consumer does not have a chance!

Jess_OVO

OVO Staff

Glad to hear you managed to get the solar installers back to correct the wiring there, @mattwillhill.

Important point about making this info more accessible too - but hopefully this thread might go some way to help.

On that note, how are you getting on with the solar installation generally? Any top-tips you’d recommend to others considering getting some solar panels installed? We’d love to hear them over here:

Powered by Re-knowable Energy!

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NottinghamSolar

Newcomer

Hello, the above wiring method has been done to us, but with another export meter fitted before the (Solar Supply MCB), After it was all switched on I was expecting our smart display to show lower usage. But it didn’t happen, so I then had a look at how we had been wired up.

I told the electrician that this is surely wrong as the generated solar goes straight out to the grid (Via another mystery smart meter) and we get charged for using our own solar! He said he had been told to do it this way.

We are using the Nottingham City Council Carbon Neutral 2028 scheme. and so had them installed for free. We did have to pay towards the other property we own as we do not live there(rented) and i’m now thinking we’ve been done. There was no mention of this method of install in any documentation send to us or in fact any available I can find online.

Particularly interesting to hear that breaking the line from the Fuse to the Meter is very bad.

I’m not an electrician but understand the basics.

Emmanuelle_OVO

Retired Moderator

Hey @NottinghamSolar,

Sorry for the issues you’ve been having.

I have taken a look at the Nottingham City Council Carbon Neutral 2028 scheme website and can’t find any more information as to how the Solar system they install works. I’d advise contacting them directly to try and find more information. @mattwillhill any thoughts on the suggestion that it’s meant to be set up that way? I’m sure @ArundaleP and @PeterR1947 wouldn’t be happy to accept that…

Keep us posted with how you get on!

Renewable Energy? Big Fan.

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ArundaleP

Newcomer

Hello, the above wiring method has been done to us, but with another export meter fitted before the (Solar Supply MCB), After it was all switched on I was expecting our smart display to show lower usage. But it didn’t happen, so I then had a look at how we had been wired up.

I told the electrician that this is surely wrong as the generated solar goes straight out to the grid (Via another mystery smart meter) and we get charged for using our own solar! He said he had been told to do it this way.

We are using the Nottingham City Council Carbon Neutral 2028 scheme. and so had them installed for free. We did have to pay towards the other property we own as we do not live there(rented) and i’m now thinking we’ve been done. There was no mention of this method of install in any documentation send to us or in fact any available I can find online.

Particularly interesting to hear that breaking the line from the Fuse to the Meter is very bad.

I’m not an electrician but understand the basics.

As I understand it nobody (other than your supplier or DNO) is authorised to disturb anything (and certainly not make any connections) on the grid side of the meter.

All connections Solar or otherwise should be on the property side of the meter.

If things don't change, they stay the same!

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mattwillhillAuthor

Rank 2

I doubt very much anyone in Notts City Council Carbon scheme understand or have an OEM manual with a wiring diagram unless their City Engineers (Building Services Electrical) have been involved. Most trust that the installer configs the final cabling up based on each variable house set up.

I would advise that your first port of call should be to photograph & draw a schematic of how it is wired. Assess the meter to see if any energy has been exported. (Do you know how to find the export reading?) Report the system back to the City Council with your evidence and advise them that the installer has wired the set up incorrectly.

No installer should touch the grid side of a meter - they don’t need to anyway. The solar side should be directly wired on to your consumer unit. Please refer my schematic in my post. No export units on the meter readings is an immediate red flag, especially given the summer we have just had. If its not exporting its likely wired incorrectly.

If you would like further input it would be helpful if we could see a photograph with a schematic to assist. Also tell us what type of grid meter you have. Good luck & all the best.