Smart meter issues since getting photovoltaic (PV) solar panels fitted - inverter issue, is the meter damaged?

Howdy @DokDream !

Sorry for the wait. It sounds like you’re in Australia perhaps? Just as a heads up, we don’t have much experience with anything related to OVO Australia because this forum is more for OVO UK.

Most smart meters can handle your type of setup just fine - I think it’s more likely that the meter is detecting reverse energy and triggered a Reverse Energy Detected (RED) warning. Usually, this is a sign of potential energy theft, but can safely be ignored in the case of legitimate exports like yours.

I’d still recommend having a chat with OVO anyway though!

Ya know, I SUSPECTED that you folks were across the pond!  Couldn’t be sure, though.  No, I’m in sunny Southern Califonia.  The smart meter the utility installed is what I’m wondering about.  As I noted, the meter hasn’t budged in about 5-½ months.  Since reading is automatic, the system subtracts the old reading from the new and calculates power use.  Since zero from zero is zero, then we get a bill for $0.00.  I’m not protesting THAT.  But I wonder if the elecricity I am making with my photovoltaic system is feeding into the utility lines.  If not, then I paid (and am paying) $30,000 to save $250/month.  When the meter was working, I didn’t really see it reflected on my bill.  I have 21 conventional-size panels, so I should be producing up to about 800 kwhr/month of power.  If the inverter was faulty from the start, then the system was likely producing less than half of that power, which would explain why my bills never appreciably declined.  Now, with the issue of the non-functional smart meter, I am wondering just what do I have?  Did the photovoltaic system kill the meter, or did the meter cause the system to malfunction?

By the way, with an issue like this, I wonder just how likely are photovoltaic system components prone to failure?  Since the systems are tied to the utility, the typical homeowner won’t have a clue if the system failed or not.  They may wonder why their electric bills remain high, but dismiss the thought as reflecive of their own power usage.  And with commercial grids, I suspect the problem would be exacerbated.  Technicians would be constantly busy diagnosing systems and replacing faulty components.  I’m starting to wonder if intertied photovoltaic and utility systems are such a good idea.  What if I spent more money to install battery banks and only used utility power during the “low cost” part of the daily cycle, and relied on electricity saved in the batteries for the rest of the time and at night?  Opinions???

Haha, we get a lot of people here! You’ve no idea how many Australians stop by!

We can definitely try to figure out what you’ve got if you’re cool with posting some photos. I’ve never seen an American smart meter myself, but you never know. And if push comes to shove, I guess our resident smart meter engineer might be interested in giving it a go! XD

There are also members here who know a lot about solar panel stuff. I’ll get the forum moderators to remind me of who is best placed for that sort of thing. Please post as many photos of everything as you wish. :)

That reminds me actually. You up for a unique challenge @hydrosam ?

I don’t know how effective photos will be, but I’ll produce some images of the meter, the photovoltaic system controls and the solar array.  Importantly, the comments you cite do suggest that others are experiencing the same or similar situation.  The panels are by a company named “Solar Edge.”  The installer, “Semper Solaris,”  has been quite cooperative.  Their personnel spent hours testing and diagnosing our system.  They concluded, and the supplier concurred, that the solar inverter was faulty.  It is scheduled to be replaced.  Of relevance is that the technicians could not explain if there was a connection between inverter failure and (a) malfunction of our “smart meter,” or (b) electrical use or production by the system, with feed into the utility grid.  As a corollary, is the power production of the system optimal, or am I mainly relying upon the utility due to equipment malfunction?  Further, how long has this been occurring? At this point, I just don’t know.

Not to make light of the matter, but it does remind me of a story:  “A man went to his confessor.  ‘Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.’

‘What did you do,’ queried the Holy Man?

‘When the war began, I hid a man from the enemy.’

‘That was noble,’ said the Father.  ‘ Why do you beg forgiveness?’

‘Because I charged him an exorbitant amount to hide him.’

‘Well, I understand.  But you were faced with war-time shortages and any remuneration helped you defray expenses.  I see nothing wrong with that. Besides, the war ended 13 years ago.  Why is this bothering you now?’

‘Thank you, Father.  Because I never told him the war ended and I’m still collecting hiding money from him.’ “

Yes, my concern with the solar system is sort of like that!

I would really have a good luck at the installed wiring config? 

We are getting many incorrect installs where the PV Is not being placed across the consumer unit but being fed in to the Grid Meter first! 

If you are not ‘enjoying’ exporting on full sun days (summer time) its a definite red flag. Have you checked if the system has ever exported? 

Photographing the wiring set up and detailing a wiring diagram schematic is the best way to get others to help you review the correct wiring. Wrong wiring will cause equipment failure and could have led to the demise of the inverter! 

Hey @DokDream,

Just stepping in here to tag you so you get @mattwillhill’s response. 

Hope this helps. 

“I would really have a good luck at the installed wiring config?”

 

This is what the system looks like.  The system is supposed to feed the house first, with excess going into the grid.  Is it?  I have so far been unable to find out.  The power bill never really told me anything and (as you can see in the next photo) the power meter has stopped.

 

 We are getting many incorrect installs where the PV Is not being placed across the consumer unit but being fed in to the Grid Meter first! If you are not ‘enjoying’ exporting on full sun days (summer time) its a definite red flag. Have you checked if the system has ever exported? 

You may be right; the system may be running backward -- feeding power into the grid first -- then line current flows into our house electrical system.  If the PV system isn’t feeding power into the grid, we would still be receiving power FROM the grid.  We haven’t had an electric bill since February or March, and until I know that the PV system is working, I don’t want to disclose this to the utility.  

Photographing the wiring set up and detailing a wiring diagram schematic is the best way to get others to help you review the correct wiring. Wrong wiring will cause equipment failure and could have led to the demise of the inverter!

Yes, that is what I suspect.  So far, I’ve paid around $14,000 on the PV system, leaving $22,000 balance.  The contractor was right on top of things when they were selling the system to me; when I found the problem, it was pulling teeth to get them our here!  I have a 21 panel array.  At a typical rating of 2kWh per panel per day, here in sunny So. Cal., I unnderstand that I should be pumping out up to 1,440 kWh/mo.  My actual. rate is about 430 kw/mo.  When there are wildfires in So. Cal., the panels get covered with ash and I notice a real reduction in power.  But even when clean -- and when brand new -- they never put out more than 550 kWh/mo.  The thing is, I just don’t see the power production reflected in power “banked.”  Here is the third image showing the system spec info:

Hey @DokDream,

Thanks for bringing this really interesting topic to the OVO Online Community! 

Do these photos help shed any light on whether the wiring is incorrect @mattwillhill? I’m wondering if also @PeterR1947, @sylm_2000 or @Transparent have any helpful insight here? 

Keep us posted if you get any further updates from the installer, this could really help other community members in the future.

Hmm… An Aclara meter… I wonder if I can get the manual for it...

For reference, this meter is an Aclara KV2c Electric Smart Meter, documented at https://www.aclara.com/products-and-services/smart-meters/ansi-commercial/kv2c/ and https://www.aclara.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Aclara-fifth-generation-kV2c.pdf

I’ve never seen one of these before other than in their brochures, so I’ve had to dig deeper.

https://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/Common/ViewDoc.aspx?DocRefId=%7B80882531-1548-40B4-A0FB-FC2AFB8B86FC%7D

You’re welcome. :)

Give me an hour and I’ll try to decipher that error!

Ok, so here’s what I can gather from the nameplate for a start!

The Meter Serial Number (MSN) NXD083313667 indicates this meter was manufactured in January 2019. For obvious reasons, it won’t exist on ECOES because that only works in the UK so it’s impossible to get anything about the supply from that.

Interestingly, it was also tested with a Test Voltage of 240V and 2.5A which I wouldn’t expect for the USA!

There is no dedicated display symbol for Reverse Run, which is unlike the Aclara SGM1400 Series that we have here in the UK.

Even more curious is the way it responds to a magnet. Here in the UK, magnetic field detection would trigger a tamper alarm, but apparently this thing uses it like a button press to scroll between various display modes??? Wow… I guess magnet tampering isn’t a problem in the USA?

And now the main event. That error code:

Er 000 002 - Battery Failure and Power Outage

The Battery Failure and Power Outage error indicates the battery failed to maintain power during an outage or that no battery was installed to maintain power during an outage.

The fix for this is actually quite easy. You just need to get the utility company to come out and either replace the battery in the meter and reprogram it to clear the error, of if it’s intended to run battery-free, simply set the time and date back up. Piece of cake!

If the utility company wants to know how you know this, feel free to tell them that a forum volunteer in the UK got hold of the user manual. XD

Pages 50-57 by the way for that PDF, but are numbered 38-44 in the original document!

Hey @DokDream,

Looks like @Blastoise186 may be onto something here...

Keep us posted with how you get on!

Just a thought actually…

Have you ever seen the meter generate this Caution Code?

CA 000 001 ‐ Low Battery

The Low Battery caution indicates a weak or missing battery. The meter periodically tests the battery. To test the battery, the meter applies a load to the battery, waits, and samples the battery voltage. The meter sets the Low Battery caution if the resulting battery voltage is low. The Low Battery caution is cleared when the battery test passes. The meter tests the battery under the following conditions: • Power up • 1st of each month (00:16) • Once per day • Activate the display switch (not in Test mode) • MeterMate software This caution should be disabled if the meter is being used in battery-free mode. Refer to the kV2c Gen 5 Electronic Meter Features and Applications Guide (132272-TUM) for details on this operating mode.

If you have, then that indicates there is a battery in there but it’s probably run out of juice. Replacing it is possible on that model (but alas, doing so on an Aclara SGM1400 Series here in the UK would trigger a tamper alarm!) but the utility company needs to do it. You would lose power for maybe half an hour or so while they take care of it.