if it turns out to be possible to get the supply down to 100A per phase but remain split phase that might be a realistic option.
3 phase 100A per phase would be closer to our current set up but the issue with changing to a 3 phase is the installation of the additional overhead power line from the nearest sub station capable of offering the 3rd phase. I have understood previously from DNO that this is potentially 7miles of new overhead line required and would be through national park, site of special scientific interest, conservation area etc. The stake holders that would be concerned about any digging or new over head lines are considerable. The distance would make it costly (low to mid six figure cost was quoted by DNO) and the location considerations means that it might not even be possible. The cost alone means that even i i decided i could afford it it makes little sense economically to spend hundreds of thousands on a 3rd phase to be able to get a SMETS2 meter, as, everything else being equal, savings might mean payback of 3rd phase cost would probably be well over a 100 years.
discussions with Octopus aren’t quite dead yet. They do seem to be able offer some export opportunities with AMR meters for their business customers, which if the case would at least allow me to sell excess pv kWh at a reasonable rate.
https://octopus.energy/blog/panel-power/
But this seems unlikely to help with access to Time Of Use tariffs (although if turns out is possible for them to install an suitable AMR meter that provide half hourly (or more freq) readings perhaps I can convince them they have all they need to offer me TOU tariffs too - seems a bit of a stretch).
I spoke to helpful chap at Ocotpus yesterday who seemed to think that (when configured properly) our current meter (Elster A1140 in CT mode) should be fine for export measurement (possibly even with manual reading submission). He seemed to think was just a case of getting the request in front of the right team, Having been burnt in the past I am not getting hopes up yet though.
But you can’t be a Business customer on a Domestic supply. And there’s no price protections for Non-Domestic supplies like there are for Domestic… And it costs 5 million percent more to run that way! :(
But you can’t be a Business customer on a Domestic supply. And there’s no price protections for Non-Domestic supplies like there are for Domestic… And it costs 5 million percent more to run that way! :(
I think what Octopus are saying is that they can possibly let @ruralCTsupply stay on the current domestic import tariff (non ToU) , but make use of a business export tariff if the right people agree.
That way they get the price protection for their usage.
In fact the SEG Smart Export Guarantee isn't limited to domestic customers.
Also you don't even need a smart meter to get the SEG. You can simply have a half hour export meter.
Would a separate export meter work with the current meter? That would solve the export issue so you didn't need to divert the excess solar to the single phase supply. Or doesn't that work as it is a 200a 3 phase supply?
The original question relates to accessing various tariffs alongside selling excess PV back. It’s the more flexible tariffs that would need a smart meter
Hi All,
Following on from the conversation almost a year ago my existing supplier did propose a partial solution.
They proposed adjusting the configuration of my current AMR CT meter to enable an Export register so the meter would be able to provide realigns for both Import and Export levels of electricity, and I would then periodically manually submit Import and Export meter readings to them - as I already do for Import. Instead of the reconfiguration they also suggested it might be easier to just replace the exciting AMR CT with a new one that they and their MOP were more familiar with - this would be determined by an on site engineer visit.
This solution wouldn’t allow me access to Time of Use tariffs (I see there has been some discussion on this site about Half Hourly AMR readings not being able to be integrated into SMETS based Time Of Use tariff systems) but would allow me join an export tariff and get paid for the electricity we export.
I followed up with the supplier over the subsequent months, but having made the proposal they seemed un able to actually deliver it and arrange the necessary engineer visits to do the required work (i.e. reconfigure or replace the meter). Eventually in September contact from the supplier on the issue dwindled off, and when I finally got their attention again in the Autumn they seemed to have little recollection of the previous proposal and not much knowledge about the situation at all.
Having continue to follow up with them the supplier now seems to have zero knowledge of their previous proposal or of any previous discussions about the issue. Through choice or lack of corporate memory they seem to have no knowledge of anything that has gone before with regard to this issue and are now telling me that they only offer export tariffs (including SEG) to customers with smart meters (irrespective of info on their website that suggests different or they have told me in the past).
I am still trying to follow up with them but it seems an increasingly lost cause which is particularly frustrating as last summer, according to my solar and battery management technology, we exported a considerable amount of excess pv generated kWh to the grid for free (our ground source heat pumps being mostly off for the summer and the solar array still belting out the kWhs).
As a result of this latest disappointment from our current supplier I am looking at whether other suppliers might be able to help?
Does anyone here know if OVO would be able (and willing) to provide the sort of solution outlined above? Could OVO provide an AMR CT meter (or reconfigure the existing one) that can measure export (and import?) electricity to allow participation in an export tariff where I could submit manual readings? If this is possible it makes little sense to have import and export with different suppliers so I would probably look to switch import suppliers too.
Not sure if this is one for the public forum or not so if someone what to message me on the side about this I would be more than happy to discuss further.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks.
Howdy @ruralCTsupply ,
If memory serves, OVO does have an arrangement in place to support AMR Meters. It is also the only way that OVO can support Polyphase CT Supplies - attempts were made to do it with SMETS2 but it’s a minefield and development efforts for it were abandoned.
I think you’d be able to make this work. HOWEVER, please bear with me - I’m gonna pull out my joker card and send this thread backstage. Back soon!
thanks, from what I have seen on this forum (and limited experience discussing with Octopus) it looks like matching up AMR produced Half Hourly data provision with the sort of systems used by energy companies to provide access to Time (or Type) of Use tariffs is not possible (sounds like the software data plumbing is too challenging from a system dev pov). However if OVO could provide an AMR CT meter with an export and import register (or adjust the configuration of the existing in situ AMR CT meter) that would ultimately allow me to participate in an export tariff that would be quite appealing - even if it required manual rather than automated meter reading submissions.
Updated on 21/08/24 by Emmanuelle_OVO:
Hey,
I got an update from one of our smart meter experts:
There isn't a Smart solution for CT meters.. it doesn't exist... they must have Automatic Meter Read (AMR). There is confusion about what 'types' of AMR, but all AMR meters are configurable to record export.. (they're technically a Half Hourly meter that's programmed to be read Non Half Hourly) - so they can record the 4 quadrants of energy and present them (import, export, import lag and export lag).
Do we support that, I highly doubt it, as we don't support AMR itself very well. All suppliers are required to support it for their domestic CT customers, the licence states that very clearly, it's part of the Smart roll out obligation, that any domestic customer with a CT supply must have a AMR capable meter by a set date and report that to Ofgem.
But it must be CAPABLE to providing remote readings (AMR means Automated Meter Reading) but it depends on the communications solution in place.. as sometimes it's not possible to get reads remotely.. this is causing confusion with the RCAMR an RCAMY..
*NC stands for Non configurable Remotely (of course!!) where as RC stands for Remotely configurable.. can be done by comms signal.. doesn't need a site visit*
The RCAMR and RCAMY bit relates to if they can be remotely enabled or not, to provide reads, but NONE of the descriptions means they are communicating, just that they are all capable of doing so, but need to be connected to a communication solution, be that a telephone line or cellular solution whereas Smart should always communicate..
AMR meters are only really one way, they send reads, that's it, nothing else that smart does.
thanks Emmanuelle, that is very helpful and one of the clearer and more informative summaries of the situation with AMR (and RCAMR and RCAMY).
I totally appreciate that (for numerous reasons) AMR is effectively only one way and not as sophisticated as SMETS protocol in a SMART meter so can do much less. I guess this might change in the future but it seems like a low likelihood at the moment.
QUESTION FOR OVO IS … working on the basis that my current AMR CT meter already operates in “dumb” mode, with zero automatic send communication to supplier, where the Import registry that monitors imported power is periodically read manually (a meter engineer usually reads it a once or twice a year and I submit monthly readings too) could OVO support a situation where the AMR CT meter had an Import and Export registry enabled so Import and Export readings could be submitted on a similar periodic manual basis and if so would this mean I could participate in OVO’s export tariff?
As an aside, on the automated communication issue; while my meter is somewhat remote with only a little 4G mobile signal there is a enough communication signal at the location to support a SMETS2 meter and allow it to communicate normally (there is also v good broadband) so the addition of a communications module to the current AMR CT meter to allow automates send communication is a realistic possibility too.
