How difficult can it be to change a smart meter? I'm RTS

I’m sorry I can’t explain why there’s an apparent disconnect between the support staff and the technical teams. We might understand a bit better if you gave a few more details of your situation:

• Is this gas and electricity, electricity only or gas only?
• Are you able to take manual readings from the suspect meter? Have you been doing so regularly? A meter reader won’t normally be more able than you to take a reading ...
• Why do you think this meter might be inaccurate? We occasionally hear of gas meters becoming inaccurate, but it’s months or perhaps years since we’ve heard of an inaccurate electricity meter. The ones I remember have all, I think, been old meters well past their use-by date, which explains why a meter has a certification date and a limited lifetime during which the manufacturer guarantees its accuracy.

If you posted a photo or two of this meter, one clear enough for its markings and display to be legible, the other showing it in situ with the cables connected to it and the restrictions that have prevented a meter exchange hitherto, we might be able to make suggestions to move you forward.

Thank you for the reply,

The apartment block is electric only. no gas, I am on an economy 7 tariff so the meter has 2 rates, I have noticed that sometimes the night rate count goes up during the day and vice versa, hence why I was questioning the accuracy of the meter, I could be paying too much or too little !!.

I send readings off every few weeks and pay online by card which I’ve done for over 3 years.

I have attached a photo of the meter (circled in blue) in situ, the bottom plinth pops off to get to the wiring, The first engineer that came out with a meter that was too large took photos as well as writing a report, that was over a year ago which is why I said don’t return with a meter that won’t fit as you have been sent photos.

It’s a tight fit but should be doable with the right kit.

The problem being that what meters and communications hubs  the engineer may have in his vehicle on any given day will vary.

You image shows good examples of possible options,

#43 is an Aclara smart meter with attached Aclara communications hub that has been sucessfully squeezed in the available space.

#41 is an Aclara meter which has had an EDMI communications hub detached from the top and then re-connected using a Kaifa flying-lead.
(However there does not appear to be sufficent space there to do that again for another meter).

Thanks for the photo - it helps. ​@Nukecad has picked out the salient points it raises.

The meters that OVO installs are of pretty similar sizes, although it’s not easy to find just what those sizes are. The engineer would normally be fitting a meter like No. 41’s, with the EDMI box (the communications hub) on top of it where the Kaifa flying lead adapter is at present. There’s clearly not enough room for that. We can’t tell from the photo whether there’s room to the right for two EDMI boxes side by side; if there were, that would solve the problem (and even give a conscientious installation engineer the opportunity to tidy up that trailing flying lead, e.g. passing it below No. 43’s meter). It doesn’t look as if tamper seals were applied to the Kaifa and EDMI boxes, so it wouldn’t be difficult to relocate the existing EDMI box to make room for another beside it.

Another possibility might be to make the cut-out into the trunking below the meters big enough for the bottom of the meter itself to slide into it. 

So what will be the plan of action from OVO, According to your email the RTS signal will be switched off tomorrow leaving my economy 7 meter unable to work correctly, I haven’t been offered another tariff nor can I see one on my account apart from other economy 7 ones.

The only solution I can see is to call another supplier and ask them to call round and have a look at the set up and see if they can install a smart meter which it looks like OVO are unable to do.

RTS Service will NO LONGER end on the 30th June 2025

It was originally going to do that and then be fully switched off in September 2025, but plans have since changed. Rather than doing a full shutdown, it’s now being switched off on an area-by-area basis. The first group affected is ~600 customers in one specific area and you’re probably not one of them - you’d know if you were. The shutdown is still going to happen, it’ll just happen more slowly now.

And either way, your meter would have a failsafe mechanism that’d allow it to run without RTS temporarily. Given it’s newer, it has a higher chance of working. That is, assuming it’s actually RTS - I don’t see a radio teleswitch in your images.

We have access to someone who might have a solution. I will talk to the Forum Moderators in the morning as we may be able to ask him to stop by.

You’ve had an email saying that your meter will stop working properly because the RTS is being switched off? There’s no sign of any radio teleswitch in your photo, neither for your flat nor any of the others. Is there perhaps an RTS unit inside the apartment? That would have caused the meter engineer to abort the installation, because there hasn’t been any way to cope with RTS units remote from the meter.

Your meter has a big label on it saying E10. That means Economy 10, and it’s not likely that it has been changed to Economy 7. Are you sure that you’re on an Economy 7 tariff?

You mentioned earlier that “… sometimes the night rate count goes up during the day and vice versa, hence why I was questioning the accuracy of the meter...”.  Where do you see ‘day’ and ‘night’ rate mentioned? Peak and offpeak rates are often referred to as day and night rates when the tariff is Economy 7, but not with Economy 10, when half of the offpeak hours are during waking hours. It is quite normal for the offpeak register to advance during the day on an E10 system.

Other suppliers’ engineers would be faced with just the same space constraints as OVO’s. 

Actually… I also notice a whole row of smart meters in the row below yours - it seems there may be more options than we initially thought...

Definitely an economy 7 tariff, 2 rates on meter 1 and 2 which I’m billed for peak and off peak, going to ask the other apartments with smart meters who their supplier is this evening and look at a way forward, OVO asking me to book a slot again this morning but not booking another morning off work to be let down a 3rd time.

That would be the case for any two-rate plan - e.g. Economy 7, Economy 9, Economy 10 and Domestic Economy - so that alone doesn’t confirm that you’re on an E7 tariff. It should be apparent from your bills, where the tariff name, prices and times should be specified. You should also be able to see the same details in your online account’s Plan page.

If you’ve noticed meter register 2 incrementing during daylight hours, it’s very unlikely that you’re on an Economy 7 tariff unless the internal clock in your meter is grossly inaccurate.

I have rate 2 as my peak and rate 1 as off peak since I moved in, the previous tenant also had the readings this way round as well, I’ve been through numerous phone calls and emails questioning if they are the right way round and they insist they are, Hence the reason for wanting the meter checked !!!!

Hey ​@colin147,

I’m sorry for the stressful situation you’ve experienced, 

I wonder if ​@Lukepeniket_OVO has any suggestions here? 

There are some situations in which customers would be compensated for missed appointments:
 

hello all!

S1 meters are smaller than S2 with Northern CSP hub so it wouldnt fit, also the flying leads we have are only 0.9m long which limits the area we can put the S2 hub (we have 1.5m leads landing in the UK end of July beginning of August).
​@colin147 Is there another wall with Black box/clock looking devices anywhere?

If you could also share a view of the meter room and all the walls aswell I can best advise on next course of action =]

Could you also DM me a account number please.

​@colin147 thank you for the account number.

Did you manage to take photos of the wider meter room?

We’ve got longer flying leads coming into the business over the course of the next month, these will help with installing the meter. 

Im going to work with the local TM to see if i can get an engineer to have a look when they are passing to see what is needed to do the job. I wont be sending the same engineer thats attended previously.

Cheers

Please see attached photos of everything in the meter room.

I take it that trunking top has only recently been cut/broken away, ie. since your first photo was taken.

From that new image then with the top of the trunking removed as it is (and maybe a bit more off right back to the wall) it appears that there is plenty of room for a new smart meter to protrude downwards into the trunking space.

Of course the earlier engineers could only assess and work with the available space that they saw between the upper and lower trunkings.
It’s not their job to hack away at trunking which after all is the property of  the customer/landlord.
Now that it’s gone they have much more space to work with.

Gosh! I hope that vandalization of the trunking was carried out by a helpful landlord, not a frustrated tenant! Apart from that wee ledge where the trunking used to meet the wall, it looks as if there’s now plenty of room for a full-height meter + CH, and even scope for the engineer to tidy up that existing flying lead a bit (even if it’s not the same supplier).

That would explain a lot! It was established some years ago that DCC assumed that the lower register tier (0 or 1, depending on meter type) was recording peak usage. This tallies with data from single-rate meters. For two-rate meters, the upper tier (1 or 2 ...) is consequently expected to be recording offpeak usage. You might have to examine your historical statements to see whether you’ve been properly billed.

When my own SMETS2 meter was installed a couple of years ago, the tiers were the wrong way round. It was corrected within a few minutes of my grumbling about it.

Hey ​@colin147,

We appreciate you sending the photos of the meter room and i’ll tag ​@Lukepeniket_OVO so he gets a notification to check them out! 

​@colin147 looking at the photos I believe this install can be done when we have longer flying leads which should arrive July/August. My only other concern is WAN coverage but we have both Northern CSP hubs and 4G CH to be tried. For now, leave with us to rebook in once the longer leads have arrived.

Cheers

Thanks for your help as always ​@Lukepeniket_OVO, and for your patience ​@colin147 - hopefully this can all be sorted in the near future 🤞.

So apparently the tenant in apartment 35 had a visit from an Ovo engineer a few weeks ago and was advised that our meters (35 & 39) couldn’t be upgraded to a smart meter because of the wiring going into them !!!!! but not to worry as the RTS signal wasn’t being switched off for a good while yet, I’ve attached a couple more photo’s and can’t see much difference in the wiring going to our two meters and all the other ones.

I keep seeing messages on my account from Ovo asking me to book an engineer to swap the RTS meter to a smart one, There’s no way I’m booking another slot to have my time wasted a third time and the tenant in apartment 35 is pretty much pi**ed off as well as Ovo has been badgering her to have a smart meter for months as well, She finally agreed and when an engineer turned up guess what, she couldn’t have one fitted !!!!.