Hey @Firedog 

Thanks for flagging this!

I’ve raised this internally, so the team can investigate. Hopefully it’s not impacting too many people and can be quickly resolved.

This particular account of mine with a traditional gas meter dose like to use a slight over use with an estimated reading on the same day I have supplied an actual reading, it’s 50 / 50 as to the what route the actual bill is calculated on.

A new manual reading dose force the correct bill to be generated, so I’m never actually being overcharged as such,

Ovo using my actual given meter reads, then  marking them as estimated

Ovo using an estimated reading for the same day I have submitted an actual read

is all to often an occurrence on this account,

but rolling there estimates backwards is a new one 🤭

Tom…

I know my traditional gas meter has in the past!  caused a few issues for myself & energy companies.

With the last 18 months being fairly uneventful, meter readings given on time, 

1 minor blip with an estimated reading again being the cause, things have taken a nosedive of late.

Some minor anomalies on DD forecast, billing & usage gone haywire.

Been onto ovo chat to get my erroneous estimated meter readings cleared up & have my usage & billing data to reflect actual meter reads.

Ditched by 1 agent, 2nd agent couldn’t help & suggested raising a complaint,

I agreed & I’m expecting a callback within 3 days to sort this out.

As of today, my billing data for the year 2023 is out by £1.41 (by my reckoning) that I have not been billed for, (due to the pricecap reduction on Oct 1st)

The issue(s) I have is that

:historical usage / billing data  (actual data or what ever data ovo decides to publish) who knows)

:any predictive energy forecast & associated DD payment’s, calculated on corrupt data,

:actual given meter reads being ignored & overwritten by estimates.

Due to how this gas meter operates, high usage over the summer & zero usage over the winter, it’s always given any automated billing system a headache at times, hence the need for human intervention from time to time.

@Blastoise186  / @Abby_OVO  Can my monthly usage / billing totals be re-adjusted to reflect  usage based on actual meter readings ? (Going back a couple of months only)

Or is it the computer says NO.

Any insight as to why the billing system has ignored my actual meter readings? Opting for wayward estimates.

Or taking actual meter reads & marking them as estimates?

Manual meter readings are

04211 @ 9th Aug

04362 @ 9th Sep

04362 @ 10 Oct

Should state zero usage 9th Sep - 10 Oct

TIA

Tom…

Those are weird numbers, and the bizarre estimates for 10 September and 9 October must have been made manually.

You won’t normally be out of pocket (or the opposite) because of estimates, because it all comes out in the wash after a reading is submitted, so long as it’s reasonable. One time when it does matter, though, is when tariffs change, like they did on 1 October. The bill you screenshot part of should have shown what estimated reading was used to calculate the costs at the old and new prices. If it was too low, the error is in your favour. I suppose it doesn’t matter much if there’s zero usage, though.

It looks as if your billing period is 10th - 9th. It seems to be best practice to submit a reading early on the first day of the billing period - the 10th, before the system generates one. That should then be used both as the closing figure for the old period and the opening one for the new period. Apart from that, it’s a good idea to submit one early on the first day of the quarter, to avoid the error aforementioned.

It would have helped to see the figures for the previous period. If that closed at 4289, you weren’t billed then for the missing 73 m³ that now appear. If some of that was charged at the new, lower rate, you’ve made a little bit on the side. Is that the £1.41 you refer to?

@Firedog  You are correct with regard to the £1.41 charge, billed for usage after 1st October at the lower unit rate.

My total usage & subsequent billing for the year is correct,

albeit this £1.41 charge that Ovo has yet to bill me for.

The issue I have is twofold,

:why is the billing system ignoring my actual meter readings, in favour of estimates,

:any upcoming usage forecast will be based on incorrect data.

*the computer model & forecast implies that more gas used over the colder months, 

That would make sense, as the central heating is used as the weather outside gets colder.

This gas supply in reality is the complete opposite! (V high usage over summer & zero usage the rest of the year).

Actual experience has shown,

That I’ve had my direct debits increased due to the predicted higher usage in the upcoming cold winter months.

Customer service eventually override the computer & set my DD accordingly as this gas meter will have zero usage over winter.

With genuine readings it has been a challenge sometimes to get energy companies to accept that the computer has got it wrong. Hence human intervention.

Moving forward, how could I historically prove that this particular gas meter is only used during the height of summer, given that ovo have attributed usage well into autumn.

Tom…

*Update*

Just returned a missed call back to ovo,

 The outcome,

As my account is technically paid up to date, ovo can’t see an issue.

 Getting actual usage attributed to the correct month can’t be done, (so at least I have an answer now.)

As I’ve highlighted these errors to ovo, hopefully it will mitigate any further issues that arise on my account,

 estimated readings in general.

                                                             
                                                                               **********

                                                                            ***************

Strange that you mentioned the best day for submitting meter reads,

My account has always shown the 9th as the best day to submit reads, (duly submitted)

very recently that changed to the 10th, that roughly coincided with my direct debit forecast springing in to life / the noted errors on my account.

Previously the forecast showed something along the lines of “ unable to show any forecast at the moment! Please check back later”

Past experience has shown that this account will cause a variety of issues, with no exception as to the supplying utility company. 


Major billing issues when I first joined ovo,  

hence the need to keep a closer eye on this account.

On a side note

The customer service agent mentioned having seen an article recently relating to an enhanced comms unit / meter, due out next year that would probably serve my lack of options in upgrading this to a smart meter. Has anybody any info on this?

But if past conversations are to be believed. being able to connect 2 gas meters to a single electric comms hub is, depending on whom you speak to,

A resounding yes! Or a definite no! 
 

Tom…

This is the first I’ve heard of such a Comms Hub, so I’m really sorry but I don’t have any info for you.

However… I can use a new forum tool to try and find out.

@Blastoise186   I’m still about, just read way more than I post,

Customer service agent couldn’t recall the specifics,  just the headline of new comms upgrade due next year.

Any info appreciated.

Tia

Tom…

My monthly bill is produced with effect up to and including the 20th of each month, and I religiously submit an online reading shortly after midnight.

Why do I always receive a reminder to “SUBMIT A READING TODAY” on the 16th ?

Hi @Ed Williamson 

I don't work for OVO, i am just a customer like you, although a regular poster on the forum.

It is a good question, as the wording could be better.

Could you add an Idea to the forum for changing the wording on the email.

Even better, suggest some new wording

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/ideas

You will see quite a few other ideas have been raised.

Have you ever looked into a Smart meter? It would potentially save you money via Power Move and Power Move Plus, should mean you don't have to submit readings, and will hopefully save us all money if OVO reach their targets for Installing Smart meters.

Is anyone else having problems getting manual meter readings to register on their bills? I submitted my gas meter reading 3 weeks ago but my bill states that a charge cannot be calculated in the absence of a reading. The home page states that my readings are all up to date and the meter readings page shows the reading recorded as well. 5 phone calls to OVO and still no progress.

Hi @Gary Froude 

I’m sorry to hear about this issue with the meter readings and bill.

We don’t have access to accounts here at the Forum, so the Support Team will be best placed to help you with this.

They can check for the meter readings, and for any other issues with the billing, and then get those corrected for you. It might be worth trying to contact the team vie webchat as this is often the quickest and easiest way, especially if they require any photos of the meter, they can get them straight away and continue working on the case to help you.

Why is it that despite giving actual readings OVO continue to use their estimated readings (which are always wrong) to calculate my bills, this even after they have told me three times that they will stop doing so?

Hi @Frustrated100 ,

The best time to submit actual readings is the day AFTER the billing cycle ends, so that it captures everything - this 100% guarantees that the bill is based on actual reads. However, any estimates will get corrected the next time you submit a reading anyway, so it’s really not that bad to be honest.

If you have Smart Meters however, that’ll eliminate this issue completely as the meters can just be set to submit at the optimal time to avoid estimated bills.

Up for it? https://smart-booking.ovoenergy.com to get started.

Sadly this matter has been going on for months and despite giving the readings on the days I'm told they are ignored for the company's estimated ones. I DON'T need a smart meter as they don't all work properly and my existing meter is fine. I have given up contacting the company as I'm not listened to and they just carry on guessing my usage.

You don’t have to get one, but refusing a Smart Meter means you’re basically refusing the easiest fix for this issue.

Why is it you don’t want one? They work a lot better than you think and ultimately, your existing one only has a finite lifespan - it can’t remain in service forever.

With smart meters having a 14 percent failure rate I am not going to take that risk. I know when to turn lights on and off, when to put my heating on and switch unused appliances off. It's when I do my side of the request from OVO giving readings and they fail to do their part. Either someone is being lazy at the company or the computer program has been poorly written to do simple tasks.

And where did you get the 14% figure from exactly? That feels like you plucked it out of thin air. Please provide evidence to back up your claims, otherwise we can just smash them to pieces. Not least because the actual figure of Smart Meters NOT working in Smart Mode is more like 9% but pretty much all of them can still be read manually.

“Meter Failure” in our eyes (as in between all the Forum Volunteers) is only when the meter fails to perform the primary function of recording meter readings/usage locally. Everything else is secondary and the worst case is that you just do manual readings.

I’m sorry to say this, but if you’re unwilling to accept what is probably the easiest solution, you’re going to have a much more painful experience. I strongly recommend you reconsider - as I suspect upgrading the meter may well eliminate the entire issue.

Over 4 million out of the 30 million smart meters in operations not working properly is not plucking figures out of the air. You come across as someone with a vested interest in smart meters so would not have a bad word said against them.

Sadly computers do go wrong (just look at the Post Office Horizon system) so no I am not signing up for a system with a high enough failure rate to warrant caution.

“Not working properly” != Not working at all.

Far too many IHD Only issues are in that 4 million. Knock those off and the number of sites with issues plummets a LOT, likely by more than 50%. In fact, the actual figure is more like 2.7 million without removing IHD-Only issues - and it’s dropping constantly.

Likewise, Horizon’s issues were not just crumby code - that was also heavily caused by DELIBERATE MANIPULATION of the entire system by engineers at Fujitsu messing with the systems via remote access as people were trying to use it and quite literally changing figures right as people were looking at them. Sure, the code for Horizon is about as solid as a chocolate teapot, but it’s an extremely rare case of a sloppy build of the entire system right from the start - I doubt we’ll see anything like that again anytime soon.

It doesn’t matter how good (or bad) the code is - if someone’s messing with the underlying database or data files, they can do absolutely anything they want and the code will just believe what it’s seeing - because as far as the code knows, that manipulated data is the data it thinks it’s supposed to be working with.

And there’s not much you can do to idiotproof commands like sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root or DROP DATABASE horizondata; beyond locking down access to the underlying system. The same access is required however, for legitimate purposes from time to time.

And I know that because a few years ago, I literally spent several days reading the court transcripts - they’re on the public record if you’re interested.

You cannot just blindly compare literally everything to Horizon or CrowdStrike. Those who do will soon find themselves in a pitfall trap or two…

In case you’re wondering, I have interests in the technology behind Smart Meters, but that’s about it. If they were scrapped, I’d just move on and wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

Hi @Frustrated100,

I’m sorry to hear this.

When’s the best date to submit a reading for my monthly summary?

The best date to submit your reading is on or just before the date shown on your bill - the email or text reminder you receive may suggest you enter this the day before to make sure it’s received on time. If you do enter the reading slightly early we’ll only estimate your usage between the date you entered the reading and the date the statement was generated, so it should be fairly accurate.

These threads might also be helpful:

@Shads_OVO Sorry, but we’ve been through this before. 

1. Bills have at least three dates on them: 
     

   

   Referring to the date shown on your bill isn’t very helpful. 
     
2. We established some time ago, subsequently confirmed by Billing, that the best time to submit a reading in order to avoid estimations is (in the early morning of) the first day of the billing period. In my example above, I should submit a reading on 1st October for the billing period 1st Sep - 30th Sep.
   The ‘best answer’ in the first thread you referred to says just this.

It’s time this old chestnut was roasted to oblivion 

Hi @Firedog,

Unfortunately this is the advice we’ve been approved to give to customers. When I discussed this with the team during our last discussion, they wanted to keep this advice the same. - https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/estimated-reading-on-bill

I do however understand your frustration. I’m aware that you may have found a better alternative to this, which is why I linked the first topic that has that best answer you’ve mentioned.

OK, I don’t think I’d spotted that particular variant: “the best time to send a reading is on the date we bill you each month.”

Sadly, that is just as ambiguous as the screenshot above would suggest. For the past many months, I have been billed like clockwork on the 5th of the month for the previous one, so this instruction would tell me to submit a reading on the 5th - which is wrong if I want to be sure of not getting an estimated bill. I don’t know what a customer whose billing period isn’t the calendar month sees, so I can’t say what this instruction would mean in that case. 

There are several articles both at this site and in the Help pages that still aren’t quite right in this respect. Perhaps they’ll all be updated just in time for Billing to change the system again without telling anybody 

One positive is that the billing is live so when a customer submits a meter reading their balance will update within 24-48 hours. 

We’d always recommend customers get smart meters installed & set to half hourly reading so their bills are always accurate & to an up to date reading. Although I understand not all customers are able to have meters in communication.