Thank you to all those who helped last year regarding Air Source heat pump as my oil boiler went down and i was having trouble with my housing association about when it was going to be installed etc. That was in May last year.
Fast forward to this year we now have a heating system ....its Storage heating and I spoke to OVO regarding all this being changed in January this year apparently yes then at the last hour it was no. Ok so I tried to look for a different company that do Economy 7 tariff.
Found one but now OVO don't want to let me go due to a huge bill which I have due to it being wintertime and having to use electric heaters due to no heating system can anyone advise me what to do obviously I didn't really want to leave but ....its a case of having to but then if OVO did Economy 7 or something similar I wouldn't have to.
Best answer by BPLightlog
... will Viv1966 be able to get a duel tariff like Economy 7 with the meter setup they have ?
If you’ve been advised that we can’t switch you to Economy 7 (which is generally the case)
We can’t tell whether this meter is capable of switching an offpeak circuit on and off. Even if it did have the internal switch necessary, there would have to be an external contactor to do the actual power control.
…
It seems that the magic use-excess-solar-generation-to-charge-heaters system only works if the heaters are wired to a constant circuit (i.e. not having the charging bit separate from the control bit so charging only happens during offpeak hours). Again, we can’t tell whether this is Viv’s arrangement. It involves installing some extra bits and bobs including a CT clamp, all included in the optional Solar Box.
As @Firedog suggests, a separate supply is not needed for these
So that should mean that a traditional 4 terminal smart meter should work with these heaters.
The balance would then be how much energy is needed during the day for other appliances and how the units are connected
@Peter E @Nukecad @BPLightlog i knew something was afoot regarding Storage heating....but its not a fossil fuel heating is it? I suppose the government want everyone on Air Source don't they?
It's not fossil fuel heating but it is inefficient compared to a heat pump. With a storage heater you get the same amount of heat out as you put in with electricity.
With a heat pump you can get three or four times as much heat out for the same amount of electricity. It's complicated but moving heat from the outside to the inside (sounds impossible but it's true) is easier that generating the heat directly. So it's basically a third or a quarter of the price in electricity for the same amount of heat. I'll restrain my inner physicist and stop there.
Ah, I was thinking of the electric shower and your new electric water heater. No it’s absolutely not a requirement to be with OVO to use this forum. I’m with Octopus as they have a smart tariff which I use as we have an electric car. We also have solar and battery, and a heat pump, which was a big improvement on the previous heating which was gas powered warm air.
… you can't move to E7 if you are on a single rate ... due to the fact that E7 will cease to exist in 2030
The imminent demise of Economy 7 has been mentioned on occasion ever since I first became personally involved ten years ago. The source you quote here is one of two I found, interestingly both from commercial enterprises keen to consult with and advise housing providers at vast expense on how to proceed when the properties they own no longer have any affordable heating option. I haven’t yet found any authoritative basis for the pronouncement, but I’d expect there to be one, from the energy suppliers’ and networks’ industry bodies if no-one else. ‘By 2030’ is only three years away, so well within medium-term budgeting scopes.
Where can I direct my landlady to find official notification that steps will have to be taken within a year or two to ensure my house remains both inhabitable and affordable?
@juliamc Octopus is where i am going too they do have an Economy 7 tarrif Snug Octopud i believe its called but not in use at 6he moment due to the war. So have suggested a variable tarriff.
You're right @Firedog in that there appears to be no official line on terminating E7 and not from any Ofgem source where you would expect it to be originating from. I suspect that it is the situation that you are in along with millions of others that there is no equivalent tariff that you could move to without being penalised.
I suspect, however, suppliers will eventually say they are not prepared to take on new customers for E7 and if you want to switch then you have to choose another tariff. The other thing that may happen is that they will continue to push the night and day rate closer together until there is no significant difference as they have been doing for years if not a decade and that may be the way they effectively abolish it.
@juliamc Octopus is where i am going too they do have an Economy 7 tarrif Snug Octopud i believe its called but not in use at 6he moment due to the war. So have suggested a variable tarriff.
Does anyone know if Octopus Snug needs the same kind of meter setup that OVO Economy 7 needs?
On their FAQs: “Will any SMETS2 meter work with Octopus Snug?”
the answer is: “Unfortunately not, as part of your onboarding journey we'll need to run some additional checks. If you're already with Octopus Energy, click 'Start my switch' above and we'll run these checks for you.
Due to the variety of electricity meters in the UK we can't guarantee compatibility. If your meter has 4 or 5 terminals (that's wires coming out the bottom) it's more likely to be compatible than those with 6 or 7 terminals. Your meter will also need to be set up with a compatible ALCS calendar.”
The good thing @Viv1966 is that you have plenty of time to sort this out, as you’ll be getting lots of solar and not so much need for heating over the summer !
@juliamc Octopus is where i am going too they do have an Economy 7 tarrif Snug Octopud i believe its called but not in use at 6he moment due to the war. So have suggested a variable tarriff.
Does anyone know if Octopus Snug needs the same kind of meter setup that OVO Economy 7 needs?
On their FAQs: “Will any SMETS2 meter work with Octopus Snug?”
the answer is: “Unfortunately not, as part of your onboarding journey we'll need to run some additional checks. If you're already with Octopus Energy, click 'Start my switch' above and we'll run these checks for you.
Due to the variety of electricity meters in the UK we can't guarantee compatibility. If your meter has 4 or 5 terminals (that's wires coming out the bottom) it's more likely to be compatible than those with 6 or 7 terminals. Your meter will also need to be set up with a compatible ALCS calendar.”
The good thing @Viv1966 is that you have plenty of time to sort this out, as you’ll be getting lots of solar and not so much need for heating over the summer !
Generally Octopus use the half hour slots to calculate the different rates. It will just depend on if they can reliably read the Kaifa meter and its half hour totals (the one shown in the earlier picture is a 4 terminal version)
Oh my goodness i didn't know this would be so complicated! I have spoken to Octopus and they seem quite happy for us to be with them on this tarriff. Should i tell them which meter i have before i join up?
… you are in along with millions of others that there is no equivalent tariff that you could move to without being penalised.
Quite. I think a major consideration is the traditional E7 arrangement where peak and offpeak usage is recorded on separate meter registers. Most suppliers are now moving away from this model and embracing Time of Use (ToU) plans based on smart meters’ half-hourly (Hh) usage data. OVO are real dinosaurs in this respect, but I hope that they’re just making sure the billing system works properly before inflicting smart ToU plans on their customers. We’ve already seen one supplier who hoped to rely exclusively on Hh billing fail spectacularly, and there may well have to be changes to the standard licence conditions to cope with new arrangements.
Oh my goodness i didn't know this would be so complicated! I have spoken to Octopus and they seem quite happy for us to be with them on this tarriff. Should i tell them which meter i have before i join up?
You don't need to. They will get all the information they need from your current supplier.
Octopus … seem quite happy for us to be with them on this tarriff. Should i tell them which meter i have before i join up?
There is a bit of Catch 22 situation here, I’m afraid. BP quoted Octopus’ FAQs:
Will any SMETS2 meter work with Octopus Snug?
Unfortunately not, as part of your onboarding journey we'll need to run some additional checks. If you're already with Octopus Energy, click 'Start my switch' above and we'll run these checks for you.
So you have to switch before they will check whether your meter’s compatible, but you won’t want to switch if it’s not. Yes, you should tell them exactly which meter you have - a 4-wire KAIFA MA120.
They mention the requirement for a ‘compatible ALCS calendar’, whatever that means. If there is an extra switch inside the meter to send on/off signals (that’s what ALCS means) to an external contactor, then there will be an ALCS calendar which the supplier has to configure. This has to be done remotely - a visiting engineer can’t do it. The calendar contains details of on and off times for every day of the year; for most domestic customers, the times will be the same for every day. Sadly, we don’t know whether your meter has an ALCS or not - as I said earlier, it’s ‘optional’.
As @juliamc remarked, you have time to get this sorted out before the next heating season begins, so it would be best not to rush.
You asked too about the ‘Solar Box’. As I understand it, this isn’t a device - it’s literally just a cardboard box with some bits and pieces in it that would be needed to set up your heaters to take advantage of the solar panels.
It seems silly to install these special heaters otherwise, so I’d suggest you contact whoever arranged the installation to say you’re missing these extra bits and they should have been installed at the same time as the heaters themselves.
@Firedog, @Peter E , @juliamc, @BPLightlog Good Morning to you all, yes i have already spoken to the installer a few weeks ago as i was trying to pair the radiators to an app in conjunction with the Solar Panels. He advised me that the heaters i have aren't the Solar versions which is why there is no Solar Box. Apparently the Solar automatically cover the use of the heaters during the day and then the heaters charge at night. @juliamc i will take a photo of the inside of that bix on the wall. I have asked Google what the box is and apparently its a junction box. The writing on the front explains that the isolator switch is in the loft. There is an LCD display of figures inside that seem to fluctuate. As i said i will send photos later.
@juliamc i have looked where the boiler was there is nothing there. What are those fluctuating figures in the junction box? Is this the amount of Solar we are using? I am guessing the inverter is in the loft, but will contact the installer on Monday to ask him. The App i downloaded on my phone was the Elnur Gabarron App ( the name on my heaters).
Also my Solar Panels are registered with Octopus, how wili know its all up and running and coming off my electric?
No they aren't the Solar ones thats what the installer is saying, but to quote " the heating is connected to the electricity and the Solar covers the electricity during the day and then the heaters charge at night." This is what he said to me in a text message.
No they aren't the Solar ones thats what the installer is saying, but to quote " the heating is connected to the electricity and the Solar covers the electricity during the day and then the heaters charge at night." This is what he said to me in a text message.
Ok, so the Solar HHR20 is different to the HHR20.
But I don’t get how solar is directed to these and it certainly won’t do anything overnight (without batteries).
Perhaps the solar panels are only wired to supply the heaters 🤷♂️
