New Heating System

The door seems very stiff, i have a key but it doesn't seem to open very well almost like it keeps slipping. Yes we have 9 Solar Panels but no battery i thought i was joining this other company so have registered SEG with them but they have told me it can be unregistered if i stay with Ovo.  My next question is will my SEG payment help me pay off my debt with Ovo?

No i think the key keeps slipping so very difficult to open.  We have 9 Solar Panels, and SEG registered with other company which  they said could be unregistered if i have to stay with Ovo. Will SEG payment help me pay off debt with Ovo? I meant to say no battery ​@juliamc 

Sorry for repitition didnt realise i was on another page!

As far as I'm aware you can have the SEG registered with any company, it doesn’t have to be the one you buy your electricity from. I don’t know what OVO’s rates are but, unless you are on a special EV tariff like one of the Octopus ones, generally the export rate is less than the import rate. 

eg. If you’re exporting at 5p a unit, say, and paying at 25p a unit it’ll be more advantageous to use as much solar as possible while it's available. Run the washing machine and have the longer showers on sunny days !!

Morning ​@Viv1966, I hope you’re well.

Are you 100% certain that the new heaters are storage heaters? If so, we aren’t generally able to change a single rate smart meter to work as dual rate, however this is a strange situation in that the heaters have been changed in a way that doesn’t suit the current meter set up. I’d like to look into this further for you.

I’m going to send you a private message now. I can’t access your account personally, however I have some contacts within Squad 70 that I’ll be able to speak to to get a clearer idea of the next steps. I hope we can get this sorted for you. Check your inbox and get back to me when you can.

Thank you Ben have forwarded my details.  Look forward to hearing from you soon.  Please let me know if you need any other information.

​@Viv1966 please could we also get some photos of your heating system.

Please could you also let me know - is there just the one consumer unit (fuse board) in your property?

Ok Ben do you need photos of the radiators? Yes there is just one fuse board.  We also have a separate fuse box for Solar Pabels now too otjer than that its just the one

I could send photos of the heating user manual would that be better?

This is in our front room, bedroom and kitchen.

This panel heater is in our hallway

​@juliamc  Thank you for your explanation of Solar Panels .....! I registered them on 10th April so at the end of this week beginning of next i should be registered with Octopus with Solar Panels  they offer about the same price as Ovo. I am sorry to sound stupid but  how will i know my electricity  is working from the Solar Panels will it show on my app? Or will my electricity be noticeably cheaper i have to say i am a bit green when it comes to things like this!  

​@juliamc  i am researching Solar Panels now on internet so don't worry!

Hi ​@Viv1966, thanks for sending this in.

I’ve checked the website of the heaters which says:

The PH PLUS programmable wall-mounted convector heater can heat any room very quickly. It is highly recommended for use at specific times throughout the day, for occasional use in certain rooms that do not have heating, or to supplement other heating systems already installed in your home that don’t provide sufficient heat on very cold days.

 

This convector is available in 4 models with different powers, ranging from 750W to 2000W, to provide the necessary heating for the square metres you wish to heat.

 

PH PLUS convector heaters integrate an ETCO electronic control optimizer that manages and restricts the flow of electricity based on the information offered by the high-precision thermostat. In addition, they are fully programmable, daily and weekly programming with 48 manoeuvres per day. In each of them it is possible to assign one of the three temperature levels: Comfort, Economic or Anti-ice.

I am no expert in different types of heating, but I’m thinking that these aren’t storage heaters, in that they don’t store energy overnight and release it as heat during the day. I believe these heaters act like a panel heater, and can be used whenever you wish to heat up a room. If this is the case, then Economy 7 will not be the best option for you, as you’ll be using these heaters on a more expensive day-time rate than you would be at the moment. 

It might be worth calling Elnur (the manufacturer) for clarification. They can be reached via phone (01942 670 119) or email (technical@elnur.co.uk). I’m cautious of giving you advice on this one as I haven’t seen these heaters before, but hopefully the manufacturer will be able to tell you the proper information. If you do speak to them we’d appreciate it if you’d let us know what they say.

Please note - switching to Economy 7 shouldn’t be done lightly - this can end up being a costly mistake if the household appliances are not set up to benefit from it.

​@Ben_OVO the first manual that Viv1966 posted is a storage heater which is said to also store excess PV production. I’ve not seen these before but Google says “They combine automatic charging for off-peak tariffs (like Economy 7) with solar self-consumption...”. Viv1966 has three of these as well as the one convector heater. 

​@Ben_OVO You probably didn’t notice that ​@Viv1966 showed two different types of heater, the PH Plus which is just a fancy fan heater installed in the hall, and the Solar HHR (High Heat-Retention) ones in three rooms. HHR heaters are well-insulated storage heaters that would normally be most economic when used with a tariff like Economy 7 to charge them overnight at lower cost. These ones clearly have some extra smartness that allows them to detect surplus generation from the solar PV array and use it to boost the charge, meaning less to be taken from the grid later. I’m not convinced of the economics - in this country, the demand for heating tends to be highest when PV production is lowest and vice versa. Still, it can’t hurt, especially when someone else was paying for the heaters!

What Viv should be particularly watchful of is indiscriminate use of the PH Plus heater in the hall. It will be frantically expensive to run, so should be confined, say, to quick occasional bursts to take an uncomfortable chill off for a limited period. 

The HHR heaters will need a bit of mollycoddling for the first couple of weeks to get the programming just right. No-one can really help with that, because personal circumstances vary so widely. I hope the instructions are clear enough; the only tip I could give is not to rush things. It takes modern storage heaters a few days to work out patterns of ambience and usage, so it’s best not to fiddle with settings while the learning process is going on.

​@Firedog will Viv1966 be able to get a duel tariff like Economy 7 with the meter setup they have ?

​@Viv1966 my apologies for getting this wrong - I missed the first photograph. Thanks ​@juliamc and ​@Firedog for pointing this out.

​@Viv1966 have you already got an existing complaint open on the account? If you’ve been advised that we can’t switch you to Economy 7 (which is generally the case) then you could ask that we meet you half way, and allow you to switch to another supplier despite the debt balance, and allow you to set up a payment plan for the debt. I can’t guarantee that the Complaints team will say yes to this, but it’s worth a try.

I did have a complaint because  somebody at Ovo said that Ecomomy 7 heating would be something i could have then at the last hour it was no but the complaint has been closed now So what should i do now and who should i speak to if Ovo can't provide E7?

We can’t tell whether this meter is capable of switching an offpeak circuit on and off. Even if it did have the internal switch necessary, there would have to be an external contactor to do the actual power control.

While it’s possible to simulate a single-rate system using an Economy 7 meter by simply setting both peak and offpeak rates to the same value, the reverse is probably not true. Even if the meter is capable of recording peak and offpeak usage separately (and all SMETS2 meters can), we were told that, once set to single rate, there was no going back. 

This may actually be a bit academic. I think I found the installation- and user manuals for Viv’s storage heaters: 
15190022-R4-INSTALLATION-SOLARHHR-UK.pdf
15190025-R4-OPERATION-MANUAL-SOLARHHR_UK.pdf

It seems that the magic use-excess-solar-generation-to-charge-heaters system only works if the heaters are wired to a constant circuit (i.e. not having the charging bit separate from the control bit so charging only happens during offpeak hours). Again, we can’t tell whether this is Viv’s arrangement. It involves installing some extra bits and bobs including a CT clamp, all included in the optional Solar Box.

Notwithstanding the earlier ‘no going back’ statement, it would be worth trying hard to get the smart people to arrange for tariff-switching within the meter. The storage heaters could then be set to charge both from the grid during the official offpeak hours and from surplus PV generation when available - best of both worlds.

Setting the heaters up for 24-h charging involves electrical work inside them to join the two supplies together with jump leads. We don’t know whether this was done, or whether a Solar Box was supplied along with the heaters. Do you know, ​@Viv1966?   

[It’s a little bit ominous that the heater manufacturer’s website mentions that at least some of these solar-powered heaters are only available ‘while stocks last’, indicating that perhaps they weren’t such a good idea after all ...]    

​@Firedog  there is no Solar Box it wasn't included so don't worry about that bit.