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juliamc
Rank 20
Rank 20
March 4, 2021

Improving insulation to suit an Air Source Heat Pump - what are you doing?

  • March 4, 2021
  • 69 replies
  • 1851 views

What improvements are people going to make to their insulation ? I have some areas of my loft that do not have 270 mm so that’s an obvious place to start, but should I go higher than 270 mm ?

My RetrofitWorks survey suggested finding out if the cavity wall insulation done some years ago was patchy or had slumped, is anyone else going down that route ?

How about an extra internal wall insulation. Then there’s draught proofing… blocking the unused fireplace, the list is long...

69 replies

Gingernut49
Rank 6
Rank 6
March 10, 2021

Hi @Gingernut49 thanks for that page from your report, I’ve reread mine and realised it’s the answer to my question re what measures I should take.

Can I ask what your initial energy rating was ? Mine’s 53E which is obviously terrible !! I assume the ‘phase 1 measures’ means installing the heat pump. On my report the heat pump bumps me up 12 points to 65D. The next big improvement on the report would be 4kWp solar panels, which I have planned to do, that would give me 18 more points. We have a huge roof being a bungalow, limited budget though !

 

Mine was 70C. Yes, phase 1 is the heat pump. Afterwards it was projected at 88B. I wish I could have solar but this is my roof and I’m overshadowed by the large building next door which was a pub (now a mosque). The sun is only on the back of the house in mid summer.

 

 

Trying to be 'green'
Gingernut49
Rank 6
Rank 6
March 10, 2021

Adding 50mm insulation below your floors is easily the most effective and easy option on your list. Unlike @juliamc you have suspended timber floors.

Frankly I don’t know why the surveyor has only stipulated 50mm. There’s a formula for calculating this based on room perimeter and area. I’ve never seen it come out this low. 70-100mm is more likely and would cost negligibly more whilst the floorboards are up..

Yes, I understand the comment about your fitted carpets… but unless we help you to do something, then you’re not going to be able to afford your energy bills!

 

I have concrete floors downstairs. I can’t afford new carpets and the floors don’t feel cold.

Trying to be 'green'
Transparent
Rank 20
Rank 20
March 10, 2021

In that case your SAP survey isn’t correct. It states that you have suspended timber floors.

Here’s a photo of one of my suspended timber floors. The floorboards have been removed to show the joists underneath and I’ve added 90mm of insulation between them. The reel of white pipe is for underfloor heating, so you can ignore that.

 

The reason you feel “warm as toast” (as you first wrote) is because the heat-input to your home is more than should be necessary. It’s leaking away.

Having additional insulation does not make a house feel warmer, despite what any salesman may tell you! It simply lowers the bills because you need less energy to keep the house at that set temperature.

 

And please remember, I’m currently looking at theoretical strategies which would cost you nothing. If I’m going to propose solutions, I need that freedom to think “outside the box”.

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juliamc
Rank 20
juliamcAuthor
Rank 20
March 10, 2021

I like your suggestion @Transparent of using floor insulation that already has the pipework for under floor heating. If it was possible to patch in a room at a time onto my ASHP system then I’d def have the bathroom done. Do you think that’s realistic ? I now have a new little radiator in there - after the trial is over could it be ditched and the heating supply rerouted to the floor ?

Transparent
Rank 20
Rank 20
March 10, 2021

Yes @juliamc - I would certainly do this a room at a time!

The alternative is to vacate the property and move all the furniture out :scream:

UFH needs water at a lower temperature than radiators. Typically water flow at 45°C will yield a temperature on top of the floor of around 23-25°C. More than that and you end up warping wood!

I have UFH below kitchen/bathroom tiles and oak floorboards which I’ve done completely by myself. So I have a very practical knowledge of what’s involved.

The common way to achieve the required 45°C is to take the feed that usually goes to radiators (70-75°C) and mix this with the water returning from the UFH pipe. There’s a standard unit which does this.

However I’d like to ask the opinion of @Rob Whitney and @hydrosam on this because something else occurs to me which would be cheaper but just as effective!

Could either of you two gentlemen please tell me the approximate temperature of the return water to your external Heat pump at the moment?

And Rob, is a Heat pump more or less efficient if that return water is cooler?

I’m sure you can both see where I’m heading with this!

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Newcomer
March 10, 2021

The heat pump is designed to work on DT5 so answering your question is - not necessarily 

Rank 4
March 10, 2021

Evidence of the deltaT of 5C in the image below. My heating is on, house at 20C and leaving water temperature is 44C, return to heat pump 5C lower. 
Rads should be optimised/upsized to work at this temperature. 
 

 

15kwh grid-tied battery, ASHP Daikin 11kw R410 mono + 300l Cylinder. 3.3kw Solar PV. Kia e-Niro EV
Newcomer
March 10, 2021

Evidence of the deltaT of 5C in the image below. My heating is on, house at 20C and leaving water temperature is 44C, return to heat pump 5C lower. 
Rads should be optimised/upsized to work at this temperature. 
 

 

Perfect it’s usually a case of radiator balancing to obtain the best outcome 

Rank 4
March 10, 2021

Thanks Rob. I’ll spend some time on that, Northern Gas didn’t. 
Im also waiting for the pipe insulation and buffer tank to be sorted which should improve things. 

15kwh grid-tied battery, ASHP Daikin 11kw R410 mono + 300l Cylinder. 3.3kw Solar PV. Kia e-Niro EV
Transparent
Rank 20
Rank 20
March 10, 2021

Well if the water being delivered by the Heat pump to your radiators is as low as that, then it could also safely be directed into an UnderFloor Heating pipe. Even it’s a bit higher, it would require little mixing to keep it within the required range.

I had been expecting the water required by your radiators to be much hotter.

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