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Electricity meter INCLUDES the electricity generated from my solar panels

  • 31 October 2023
  • 21 replies
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HI, firstly please forgive my ignorance - I am not an expert in this field.

I have PV system on my garage roof comprising 16 solar panels, a Solis inverter and a Pylontech battery.

My problem is that my electricity meter records ALL electricity energy used in my house as being supplied by my electricity supplier from the electricity grid but which INCLUDES the electricity self-generated by my panels which has been considerable.

My electricity supplier is over charging for the electricity being pulled from the grid as it records self-generated electricity as if it is being supplied by the grid.

They have recently installed a new SMETS2 meter but the problem of them also charging me for my self-generated electricity persists (i.e. it is showing all electricity being used in my house as being supplied from the grid) and is costing a fortune! 

Can anyone help with what may be causing this and how it can be rectified please?

21 replies

BPLightlog
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This could well be due to your electricity meter @JohnnyMack .

What is installed ? Can you show a photo (no personal details). Some meters have been known to be set to count import and export together.

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waltyboy
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Hi @JohnnyMack I can see how that would be wildly frustrating.

 

How  long have you had your PV system, and was it in an effort to solve your problem that you had the SMETS2 meter fitted?

 

Do you have your own generation meter, which records all that your PV panels generate (regardless of how much is used by you and how much is exported back to the grid).

 

Was the system installed by an MCS registered person…if so, they should not have left you in this position. 

 

I can well understand how frustrated you must feel at being actually penalised for producing your own power, but this doesn’t sound an intractable problem, given sufficient goodwill on the part of your energy supplier when you explain things to them! For example, your smart meter will be well able to separate imported electricity from exported electricity: you could carefully examine the function buttons on your smart meter and try and find the different registers for imported kWh and for exported kWh, that would be a good start in getting your supplier’s agreement that something is seriously up with their billing. 
 

I’m not an expert either, but it does sound to me as though it’s a metering problem: the DNO meter (which your energy supplier has to use) is not informing your supplier about what is being imported and what is being exported…but even that is not answering your main problem about why your total household consumption is being seen as totally imported from the Grid. 
 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will step in and help you further, but in the meantime do have a good examine of your smart meter’s readouts….

Walt. 2013 : 3.2kW PV East/West + Fronius IG, >23MWh (18MWh exported). 2023: 2.4kWh LiFePo4 battery. 2024 Tadö wireless smart stat v3.
waltyboy
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Hi @JohnnyMack One other thing that occurred to me, you could invest (£20 - £30) in a smart import/export meter?  Not the sort that’s hard-wired obviously, that’d be a much bigger job! But the sort that comes with two clip-on sensors (CT clips) that you clip on to your meter tail just on the house side of your meter.

 

You will need a household socket nearby or other safe way of providing fused power to the new device (it needs very little), and you can read these things on your ‘phone or other device in real time. I should think they can log the usage data, too, but I’m afraid I’ve never used one. They wouldn’t be ultra-accurate I suppose, but close enough (as a check or “second opinion”) of your actual hour-by-hour import/export stats. They can measure current up to about 100 Amps I think, but you’d need to choose one that was appropriate for you.

 

I am right in assuming you’re a UK consumer with a single phase supply? Oh yes, and I see I wrongly intimated that your supply meter is the property of the DNO, of course it’s not, only the cables up to it, it’s your energy supply company’s property, so they have a good vested interest in making sure it’s accurate, 

 

Let us know how you get on….

Walt. 2013 : 3.2kW PV East/West + Fronius IG, >23MWh (18MWh exported). 2023: 2.4kWh LiFePo4 battery. 2024 Tadö wireless smart stat v3.
J
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Hi BPlightlog. Many thanks for your response. I can take a photo of my meter but I’m not sure whether it will contain personal info if I don’t amend it in some way. I have also seen some chat about ‘clamp(s)’ and that the wrong positioning of it/ them can cause a problem. I think that the problem has caused me to be overcharged by getting on for £1,500 now! Cheers

J
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Hi Waltyboy, thank you for both your messages. Yes the SMETS2 was installed by my supplier as I have raised a complaint which I thought was with the old meter. Unfortunately, the problem still persists. I have an App from the hybrid inverter supplier which shows self generation, battery usage, import and export amongst other things - so I have evidence of these things (and which shows that the supplier’s meter is not recording properly or in the same way). I am in touch with the original installer but I’m not sure they know what to do!! There is a ‘clip’ (‘clamp’?) on one of the cables in the outside meter cupboard which may be in the wrong place(??) but I don’t want to fiddle about and make things worse. Thank you for your help. Cheers  

BPLightlog
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Hi BPlightlog. Many thanks for your response. I can take a photo of my meter but I’m not sure whether it will contain personal info if I don’t amend it in some way. I have also seen some chat about ‘clamp(s)’ and that the wrong positioning of it/ them can cause a problem. I think that the problem has caused me to be overcharged by getting on for £1,500 now! Cheers

Can you just blank out the printed serial number?

I was mainly looking to see the type of meter and the position of any clamp CT’s (the ‘clip’ you refer to)- the arrow direction on the clamp is important too. It’s moulded into one side
 

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J
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Hi BPLightlog, I’ll see if I can get some photos. The new meter has (from left to right} a brown, then blue then another blue then another brown cables coming from the underside of the meter. There is a clamp on the furthest right brown cable. The arrow on the clamp is pointing downwards i.e. pointing away from the meter (on the furthest right brown cable). The clamp also seems to rest on the blue cable next to the brown cable? Does that make sense?

J
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Hi BPLightlog, photo of the cables

 

BPLightlog
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Hi BPLightlog, I’ll see if I can get some photos. The new meter has (from left to right} a brown, then blue then another blue then another brown cables coming from the underside of the meter. There is a clamp on the furthest right brown cable. The arrow on the clamp is pointing downwards i.e. pointing away from the meter (on the furthest right brown cable). The clamp also seems to rest on the blue cable next to the brown cable? Does that make sense?

Ok, yes, that’s useful. 
The meter wiring is as expected and the ct clamp and arrow are in the right place and pointing in the right direction. 
What’s the make/model of your meter @JohnnyMack ?

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J
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Hi BPLightlog, thanks. Here’s a photo of the meter which I believe is a SMETS2 and which should be working with my PV installation?

 

BPLightlog
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Ok, so a Kaifa MA120 ..

there are readings available for various register 

and also there should be a separate export Reading available 

It would be useful to know what the meter registers for export - that is if it is registering export

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T
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Hi @JohnnyMack can I ask how you got this resolved? I've got the exact same problem. Was it resolved by Ovo or by the solar installer?

TIA

BPLightlog
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Hi @JohnnyMack can I ask how you got this resolved? I've got the exact same problem. Was it resolved by Ovo or by the solar installer?

TIA

What’s your set up @thengore ? and when/what have you noticed regarding your solar PV and usage?

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T
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Hi @BPLightlog thanks for replying.

Pretty much the same as the OP.

A 4.8kw PV solar array with 2 x batteries and a Solax inverter. Not installed by OVO.

Had a Kaifa MA120 installed in June which made us realise the problem, but it was clearly happening before then now looking at data. As an example, according to our Solax data we generated and used 320kwh and then drew 43 from the grid, but OVO charged for 340 kWh. We are not on a feed in tariff.

Had 45 mins on the phone to OVO who then sent our an engineer who wasn't very useful other than saying the meter was set up correctly. Suggested the A- reading should be the one we're charged for, but I think that's the feed in amount.

Solar panel electrician says everything is correct from his pov.

BPLightlog
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Hi @BPLightlog thanks for replying.

Pretty much the same as the OP.

A 4.8kw PV solar array with 2 x batteries and a Solax inverter. Not installed by OVO.

Had a Kaifa MA120 installed in June which made us realise the problem, but it was clearly happening before then now looking at data. As an example, according to our Solax data we generated and used 320kwh and then drew 43 from the grid, but OVO charged for 340 kWh. We are not on a feed in tariff.

You need to be a little cautious on inverter data as it isn’t entirely accurate - it should give a rough idea but as it takes ‘snapshots’ of data, it can miss events. 

Had 45 mins on the phone to OVO who then sent our an engineer who wasn't very useful other than saying the meter was set up correctly. Suggested the A- reading should be the one we're charged for, but I think that's the feed in amount.

As the info earlier in this thread, the -A reading is exported electricity and +A is imported .. I wonder if you can check which register OVO are using. 

Solar panel electrician says everything is correct from his pov.

It is possible that the meter is set to record all energy on one of the registers. If OVO are using that register then that might be the cause. 
Kaifa M120 overview

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Abby_OVO
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Hey @thengore 

 

Sorry to here you’re in this situation.

 

One of our volunteers BPLightlog has left some really helpful advice here already, it’d be really useful to know what register is being used and if these are set up correctly as it may be the problem.

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T
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Thanks @BPLightlog @Abby_OVO 

I went into the TOU register and only TO1 has a value, which is 440 (i.e. the same as the +A reading).

All of the TOU blocks read as 0. 

BPLightlog
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Thanks @BPLightlog @Abby_OVO 

I went into the TOU register and only TO1 has a value, which is 440 (i.e. the same as the +A reading).

All of the TOU blocks read as 0. 

It sounds like the +A register is set to register all power then. 
If you’re confident that the wiring is correct (post a photo here if you want) then I would tend to do some recording with photos, showing the register increasing when you’re generating but not using power. That might help 

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T
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Thanks @BPLightlog  I don't know about confident, we live in a very old house with a hodgepodge of electrics! Here are a couple of photos. 

The arrow on the clamp (which I understand to be the small white box) points away from the meter, as far as I can tell. It goes through the black box directly above it and then into the white section on the right.

 

BPLightlog
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That’s quite a tangle!

It's difficult to see but on first look, I’m not sure that the clamp CT is positioned correctly. 
It would normally be clipped on the cable from your meter (L4 on your second photo) with the arrow pointing away from the meter. 
If the cable it’s attached to is the L4 cable, then it looks like the clamp is pointing the wrong way

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T
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Thanks @BPLightlog 

It is difficult to tell as everything disappears into the white box on the right, but as I can probably get the installer out quite quickly I'll ask him to double check everything first.

Thanks for all your help 

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