The oil DHW\CH will be cheaper than storage heaters so I wouldn't swap. With what you have you really don't need any form of off peak rate. Bit check your bills and do the maths or post on here what tarrif and rates you're in and what consumption you have

The appended rental cottage isn’t on the oil CH just the main house where we live, cottage wasn’t  heated at all so we have installed a wood burner, an electric towel rad in bathroom, and we have 3 clay core electric heaters to fit in the 2 bedrooms. my bills are indecipherable but I’ll try to work it out. Thanks 

Thanks, for reasons I don’t understand all the readings have ‘estimate’ beside them but we gave meter readings most months, bit odd! 

Here’s a photo of a month, we’re obviously overpaying on our per unit rate eh?

I’m really unsure what to do for the best since in OUR house our usage will stay the same so we should shop around, swap, get smart meter etc, but from the Autumn we will have paying guests in the appended cottage, and they will use hot water daily (currently on the THTC) and we can either install clay core or some other storage heaters for them (I assume these can go on this meter too) so the usage in there will quite dramatically increase…

Any advice on this whole issue most appreciated!

You’re welcome - keep posting and we’ll try to give the best advice we can between us. That’s one of the things this forum is amazing at - and all the advice we offer is free too, which is a bonus!

There’s two possible meter setups that you could be on. I very much doubt you’re on Standard Economy & Heating Load because that tariff is absolutely useless 99% of the time if you’re on oil heating. I also can’t see you being on Economy 7/White Meter based on what you’ve said. The only other one would be THTC and that’s what I think you’ve probably got.

When it comes to THTC stuff, I have a direct contact at OVO who’s been helping me out and keeping me informed. I can’t tell you his exact name, but it rhymes with Bim so you can probably figure it out. :D

The latest info I have from “Bim” is that THTC Support for Smart Meters is still in development with OVO’s teams. It’s coming soon though! Please wait and I’ll try to get a refresh because that info is a few months old now.

Hi @zedzedhoney, it’s good actually that the supply for the attached cottage is in your main home, much easier to manage than having a separate meter in the cottage: there is absolutely nothing against you installing your own meters “downstream” of the house meter, on the cottage circuits before they leave your doom room. One meter for heating/hot water circuits, one meter for everything else in the cottage. And I’m guessing guests will have their energy included and won’t be billed separately for energy?

I have two such meters in our own smallish terraced house: one cheap meter for the conservatory because I installed underfloor heating there, before we swiftly installed a log burner the following winter (underfloor heating outrageously expensive to run, slow to warm up, doesn’t really retain heat, while the log burner, a relatively tiny Hamlet, smaller than our living room Morso, is fantastic). And 20 years ago I installed a whole-house Elster 100 Amp meter (other brands are available!) just downstream of the main meter in the cupboard which acted as a very useful check on the supply meter before we went smart…I still check the readings every night, though, both for import and export, and it’s still pretty accurate for my non-billing purposes. 
 

I guess you wouldn’t need to instal a separate meter for oil, though? Presumably there would be a reasonably constant relationship between every kWh of electricity used for heating or hot water and the amount of oil consumed by the boiler? It wouldn’t be an absolute constant of course, allowing for time taken to heat from cold for example, but there would be a reasonably discernible relationship over time I’m sure. 
 

There will be advice from others here on best ways to heat holiday lets/second homes/granny flats etc. and I’m guessing that by electing for clay core radiators or storage heaters you are aiming to provide all-round comfort for guests without their having to fiddle too much with things, or you worrying about their leaving the place all day with a door or window open with some thermostat demanding heat? But nevertheless a simple room thermostat with a maximum of, say, 20 degrees could work just as well? People might well want to adjust things for themselves anyway, especially at night or first thing in the morning.
 

Sounds like you’ve got some good plans in place anyway, and now is a good time to get the metering sorted in plenty of time for August.  But definitely think about getting advice for upgrading RDC/RCBO provision for those cottage circuits well before any guests arrive!

Thanks so much, hopefully ‘Bim’ will update you soon!

Another local lady said to me: “I am stuck with OVO after being migrated from SSE and now can’t shop around. OVO have absolutely refused to fit a smart meter because I still have two meters - one was the old storage heaters meter - now only does the hot water tank. OVO said that in 2024 they will be replacing all meters on the island with single smart meters”

So I’m now wondering, if I call them about my faulty meter what on earth they will suggest doing if they’ve told someone with a similar set up that they won’t install a smart meter so they’re unable to shop around or get a smart meter with ovo till an indeterminate point in 2024 when all THTC meters will be replaced…I can’t be left without a functioning meter till then!

Then I read this and I’m really worried!

https://laim.scot/blog/thtc-meter-change-sse-ovo

The reason they couldn’t change was probably due to not having anything available to change to.

However, in your case it MIGHT be possible given that it’s not the RTS side that’s failed. The thing about being “stuck” with OVO probably won’t go away even after a Smart Meter upgrade. You can only really switch to suppliers that support your tariff type - and barely any other than OVO can handle THTC.

To be honest… I’m probably a LOT more clued up about this stuff than most people are, and I get the feeling even the Energy Ombudsman isn’t as clued up and up-to-date as I am (I don’t even live in Scotland either!). They certainly can’t use some of the magic tricks I can pull off...

So as a magician, what’s your best advice? Can’t I just ask OVO to ditch this THTC meter/tariff now, get a smart meter installed (I’m assuming I’d need an electrician to move the hot water back onto the main meter?) get on whatever the OVO standard tariff is…then shop around in the future as I see fit? Am I completely misunderstanding the problem I have?

Probably not recommended. The cost of re-wiring alone would be ridiculous.

Please also ask your DNO if you’re in a Load Managed Area for the purposes of THTC. If you are, then you’re probably stuck with it I’m afraid.

Sorry, what’s not recommended? Getting rid of this THTC?
Are you saying I can’t get a smart meter either…but I also can’t stay on this THTC as it’s going to be defunct soon…but I also can’t stay as I am since the other meter is broken…oh and the RTS signal thing is being switched off soon too…so what on Earth do I do?
 

My DNO is SSEN apparently, I’ve no idea if we’re load managed for the purposes of THTC (or what that actually means!) we’re on the Isle of Arran if that helps (not even that remote usually but the wind has been mad and our boat is terminally broken so infrastructure is currently awful and we can’t really go anywhere much for this next year!) 

How is it a big rewiring job please? The two meters are right beside each other, the hot water unit is only a few feet away, ditto the boiler…I’m being advised by a local bloke that it’s relatively simple: “the supplier OVO would generally fit a new meter, then one wire from that to a Henley block, and then 2 wires to each consumer unit”

This is all getting very techy for me I just want a person with no agenda to come round, look at our set up, and replace all the defunct stuff with the most efficient alternative and then shop around for the cheapest deal for our pattern of consumption, like maybe try the tracker for a while!

Hello @zedzedhoney your local electrician sounds correct to me…your supplier is obliged to replace the current defunct meter (you’re not now even sure whether it’s billing you correctly any more, presumably) at no cost to you, then, at your own cost (which by the sound of things won’t be enormous), get your consumer units and immersion hooked up via Henley blocks or equivalent, and after that, as you say, you can cast around for best tariffs and best use of your immersion etc.  

Main thing is, get that meter replaced as an urgent task, and while that’s pending your local electrician can be preparing things on the consumer side.  
 

You’ll find OVO customer services people friendly and helpful…I was migrated over from SSE and have had no problems whatsoever with OVO, quite the opposite.

NOPE! It’s going to be HELL!

First they said they’d try to source a heritage meter to replace the broken one, now they’re not even doing that! Here’s a response from today:

Thank you for writing back to us regarding your THTC meter and tariff plan that you are currently on.I would like to offer my sincere apologies for the inconvenience that has caused you. I will be happy to get this sorted for you.

Regarding your recent request, I have reviewed your account, I would like to give an explanation about the THTC meter exchange to a smart meter. Unfortunately, at the minute, we are unable to change any exotic meters even for an older traditional style one. The reason for this is because they have stopped making the older meters and it's difficult to source them. We are expecting an update in the next couple of months. When we receive this update, this should allow us to start booking in meter exchanges for your specific meter type. We are hoping that towards the end of the year, all THTC meters are exchanged to keep in line with the new Radio teleswitch switch-off date in the first half of 2025.

Rest assured, as soon as we are able to exchange your meter, we will be in touch to discuss the heating you currently have in your property. We are looking at swapping THTC with either a single-rate meter, economy 7 or economy 10. It would depend on the type of heating you are using and whether off-peak rates would benefit you more.

Please see below current tariff that you are on:-

XxxxxxxX

I am sorry if this is not the answer you wanted but at the moment this is just not something we are able to do. Whilst we love our customer and hope to continue providing great customer service, we do understand that each and every customer gets to make their own choice in who their energy supplier is. This is something we can't currently offer, however, another supplier may be able to offer you a meter exchange and you are free to switch at any time without notifying us.

I can see that the previous agent have arranged a meter reading appointment. Once we get this information we should be able to update your meter reading in the system.

I hope this has been helpful and that this has clarified fully exactly how we will look to resolve this for you.

And my reply:

Hi XXXXX

I'll read this properly later today. 

But briefly, the part of your email that jumps out:

"Unfortunately, at the minute, we are unable to change any exotic meters even for an older traditional style one. The reason for this is because they have stopped making the older meters and it's difficult to source them. We are expecting an update in the next couple of months. When we receive this update, this should allow us to start booking in meter exchanges for your specific meter type"

So...meaning that we will not have a functioning electric meter of ANY kind until an unspecified time in several months but not even definitively then? 

How can it be legal that a broken, un calibrated and uncertified meter is left in place so that a customer is unaware what they are spending and unable to check that it is functioning correctly?

And since OVO choose not to replace it with a smart meter (or indeed ANY meter) we cannot switch so there is no choice as no other supplier supplies to customers with a THRC meter in place?

Again this seems not to be legal. The very least OVO could do until this is fixed is to put us on a reduced rate tariff, until a qualified person has come and we are satisfied that the current malfunctioning meter is recording our usage accurately how can we be satisfied to just take OVO's word for it?

Lastly, you have not explained WHY exotic meters can't be replaced by smart ones...it may be an OVO policy not to roll this out yet, but this shouldn't apply to your customers who have a NON FUNCTIONING METER.

The smart technology exists, I'm told that smart meters even without signals can function just like regular meters and we can phone in our meter readings, it would surely only involve a new meter installation and a disconnect/reroute of one wire from the hot water heater into the new meter...they are 2 feet apart in a large cupboard.

I'd appreciate a technical explanation as to why this type of installation can't occur, not a policy explanation.

Many thanks for getting back to us. 

Oooh @zedzedhoney, that’s not good, no.  But is it your THTC meter that’s actually at fault at the moment?  The THTC meter doesn’t need replacing right now?

EDIT Have just seen your additional post above, I quite agree with you, you need the broken/US meter replaced pronto, never mind the “exotic” one…

From what I can tell, it’s the regular meter that’s messing up - the THTC one appears to be OK. However, they are linked which makes this complicated.

Horstmann was the only manufacturer ever known to make THTC Meters that I have records for in my archives. I don’t seem to have any record of anyone else making them. They stopped making them either at the same time or around the time when they rebranded to their current name Secure (possibly prior) and refocused on Smart Meters. So we’re probably talking something like 2014 meaning they stopped doing THTC Meters about 10 years ago.

The snag is that almost all stocks of those has run out now. And the stocks of regular ones has definitely dried up - the industry gobbled up the last of them a couple of years ago if memory serves.

Hey @zedzedhoney,

The support team is correct about us not replacing THTC currently, we’re working currently on a solution. I’ll update all THTC topics as advice changes.

But my question is the same as Walt’s, is it the THTC meter which is the faulty one?

No! It’s the regular meter!! I keep telling them this, I do not understand why they can’t replace the broken meter and leave or disconnect the THTC one!!

No! It’s the regular meter!! I’ve said this on phone and by email snd sent images, I do not understand why you can’t replace the broken regular meter and leave alone or disconnect the functioning THTC one!!

I’m probably missing something here but: can’t they replace the broken standard meter with smart (or anything functioning at this point) and surely we can have the ‘exotic’ meter disconnected from the hot water tank and rerouted into the new meter? Or even kept exactly as it is? I’m not understanding the issue.

That’s what I’m going to flag backstage to chat with the others about. We’ll swing by again ASAP.

Backstage chat? Now that sounds ‘exotic’!
 

Thanks again for all the replies guys, I’m really dreading having to sort this all out, it’s already complicated having the appended cottage and working out how best to heat it cheaply for guests, (currently not heated!) but I honestly didn’t think it would be this hard to get a broken standard meter replaced! 

Hehehe, perks of the forum volunteer role. :)

There’s more to this place than meets the eye. We just happen to have a few hidden categories where we can chat between ourselves away from the public eye. Comes in useful for drafting advice and guides, among other things.

Hi @zedzedhoney, take heart, between @Blastoise186, @Emmanuelle_OVO and your own representations to OVO I’ve no doubt that your main, regular meter will be replaced soon. It’s a necessity after all. And that cottage of yours is an exciting project…it will happen once all this smoke clears….

I have a similar set up with the two meters.  It was also my daytime meter which failed and it was replaced with another legacy meter so I think they can still source them, albeit maybe with difficulty now.  

Surely, they can retain a stock of meters that have been removed and replaced by smart meters for this eventuality until a reliable smart meter for THTC set ups is in place?