Using Renault5 E-Tech EV as 50kWh cheap rate overnight storage with V2Grid and V2Home

Do you have a Renault 5 ev ? We’re soon to get one and I noticed it has a fitting to discharge the battery to the home, but only to run a 3 pin plug extension lead for camping or occasional power cuts. What a shame…. ☹️ 

Hi ​@Cloudliner79 

Thank you for starting the discussion however I'm not sure what your question is. OVO don't have a V2G tariff but at least one other supplier (Octopus) does talk about V2G but it’s a very old reference and certainly doesn't mention a Renault 5 as a compatible vehicle and still references the Quasar 1 which is long gone.

Wallbox had announced they were going to produce the Quasar 2 and about two years ago they were estimating a price tag of about £6,000 but all references to the price have been dropped. Last year they said they were open to orders but there appears to be no further information on the subject.

It's quite an appealing thought to have that much battery storage already paid for sitting in your drive doing nothing but after all the talk of it revolutionising the managing of the peak load all talk of that seems to dwindled to almost nothing. Part of this is that there is a lot more BESS feeding into the grid at peak times and part of this is home battery units. BESS has grid scale economy and is guaranteed to be connected to the grid during peak hours.

I had so much difficulty trying to find where you could buy one I gave in and asked Chat.

https://support.wallbox.com/na/knowledge-base/quasar-2-product-overview/

Peter 

 C'est ça ? Mobilize Verso ? https://www.press.renault.co.uk/releases/3114

The Verso is an interesting device. The large cost of the Quasar 2 is in the DC/AC outgoing inverter so the question is, Is the R5 doing the conversion of DC to AC? What is the cost of the Verso? Presumably your export limit will still be limited by the granting of a G98 (3.68kW up to 11kW three phase) or G99 (greater than 3.68kW for single phase etc) licence by the DSO (formerly DNO) depending upon the resilience of your local cabling. 

Chat can’t find any prices for the Verso unit in France but it is suggesting that the cost might be in the region of 2-3,000 euros with installation costs on top. What it’s saying is that in France only V2G is allowed to power your home. V2H isn’t. The cost of the whole installation is tied to the cost of *Grid services * tariffs * contracts (often with Mobilize). So the information I have is woollier than a mamoth so it’s next to useless.

Ah! When I asked for further details in comparing with the Quasar 2 then it spilled the beans!

With the Verso it’s the car that does the inversion so the power must come out of the AC connector. The Verso is just a set of contactors and logic (and therefore cheaper than the Quasar 2) to make sure no one gets killed. The intelligence and inverter is in the car which means that only those cars (currently only the R5?) with the output inverter and logic will work bidirectionally. Following on, nothing in the Renault range prior to the R5 can therefore use the BiDi Verso. Presumably Renault will licence out the patent on this for other manufacturers if they want to follow suit. Being that no one licenced Renault’s Chameleon charger (using the motor field coils as the DC/DC inverter inductors) then what is the prospect of other manufacturers buying the licence for this technology? If not then it seems that a very limited number of vehicles are likely to be connected. Will Ofgem/NESO make the licence changes necessary for a small number of likely connections if that is the case? Obviously, in France, Renault is a national motor manufacturer so presumably they have influence over France’s electricity regulator.

Peter

Update: Quite by coincidence I've just picked up that VW have a V2G option. I wonder if they have adopted a common standard. More research required. 

Hey ​@Cloudliner79 ​@juliamc ​@Peter E! 

I just wanted to say how much I’m enjoying this discussion! Some of our fellow members have already shared their thoughts about the V2G scheme in the thread I linked below. Although we don't have anything official to share just yet, I’ve heard that a few former V2G members have been chatting with us about trying out a new version. It's still early days in those discussions—think of it as just dipping our toes in the water! I’ll definitely keep you all posted with any updates as soon as I have more information to share.

Looks like the BiDi is a standard. It's on the 2024 Cupra Born as well.

https://www.enlit.world/library/from-garage-to-grid-the-state-of-v2g-and-v2h-in-europe

No I do not have a Renault 5 E-Tech but did have a test drive in one 6 months ago and it was brilliant .approx 150 bhp and 250 miles of range on a 50kWh battery. Yes it does come with a 3kW V2L (vehicle to load) inverter built in and if you purchase the requisite cable from Renault, you can plug in any 240 volt AC mains appliance up to the 3Kw rating, with the power being drawn from the tracion battery via the DC to 240 volt AC inverter built in to the UK spec car. So yes in fact you could maybe use this V2L lead at home to plug a kettle in for your barBQ or a microwave combi oevn etc as long as you do not exceed the 3kW load via a suitably waterproof, shrouded, rain protected extension lead or for a picnic after driving to yuor favorurite picnic or beach side parking spot. Many EVs such as the Hyundai Inster are also equipped as standard with this V2L inverter and may be very useful for fair weather camping especially those, like the Inster which have seats that fold flat into a double bed configuration. Have fun..   P.S. However clearly this 3kW inverter and simple one socket 240 volt AC mains outlet is clealry not suitable for running your home in say the summer months. The French spec Renault 5 E-Tech can be purchased with a much more powerful DC to 240 volt mains inverter built into the car such that when it is plugged into a suitable bi-directional wall box similar to the Mobilize maodel, you can cahrge up your EV traction battery on arguably cheap rate electricity over night at maybe 7 p per kWh and thus fill up your 50kWh EV battery in your French spec Renauklt 5 E-Tech. You can then use the 50kWh of stored energy in the V2G (vehicle to grid) mode to supplement your house supply and, according to the tariff you have agreed with your energy supplier you may be paid by them, more than 7p per kWh and maybe as much as 15p per kWh for each unit you export back to the grid during daylight hours and thus help support the local grid in your neighbourhood. This arrangement has been running sporadically with Octopus / Wallbox and either 30 kwh or 40kWh Mk 1 or Mk 2 Nissan Leaf owners - both of which have the old fashioned ChadEMO connector. My brother in law has been using this system but it has never worked for more than week or so without breaking down despite several wallbox changes and software/firmware upgrades being applied. he has repeatedly complained that he is not getting any benefit form it and Octopus has reminded him that he has actually just been part of their extended field trial offered to a limited number of selected customers 4 years ago.. The French Renault 5 E-Tech V2G system uses the emerging CCS2 connector which supports both super fast charging at up to 800 volts at public charging stations and the bidirectional charging that supports the V2G scheme.apparently the V2G sceme via CCS2 was supposed to roll out by agreement with several major UK energy suppliers by the end of 2025 but things are still stalled in the UK for various legislative, administrative and financial risk assessment to the energy suppliers reasons. France has demonstrated that the technology is already namture.so we are just waiting for it to be sorted out and for the bidirectional v”G invertes to be made available in a range of EVs in the UK such as Renault, Hyundai, Peugeot, Citroen, Seat, VAG, Stelantis etc..

No, but I would consider buying one, second hand in a few years time when I retire, to replace  my trusty 9 year old Hyundai i20 micro hybrid 1 litre, 3 cylinder, T-GDI if the UK rolled out the V2G system via the new CCS2 connection standard. .

Clarification for you. Ive been using the bidirectional indra chademo inverter for 6years and it works every night charging and every day discharging. Saved me a fortune. Lets say 230quid a year in electric to drive 11,000miles and run 100year old victorian house with four adults.