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My non-smart 3 phase meter shows that my usage has been very high since my solar installation - how can this be fixed?

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Hi eveyone.

hope someone can help.  I had solar installed and live for the month of july and i belive its done something strange to our eletrical usage.

Lasts month usage was about 400kWh and without solar i would of expected Julys to be much less, also due to we were away for 10 days of it.

 

I took a manual reading 1st july (As this is when our solar went live) and 1st Aug, so i could see the effet our solar had on our bills.

 

As we have 3 pahse at home we donthave a smart meter.

 

Julys usage was 1769kWh as you can see from the image below!!!

 

What i belive has happened is the solar that we have produced/exported has been added to our meter (Bill) in some way as i cant belive we have used 1700kWh and what solar we produced/exported.

 

Am thinking that the old meter is not set up for recognising import/export and in treating it all as import.   We have a Elster A1140 meter.

 

Can anyone offer any advise here?

 

Thanks

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Best answer by BPLightlog 18 August 2023, 13:42

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Jeffus
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Perhaps have a look to see if the CT clamps, asumming your meter model has them, are the right way round and on the right cables? 

This might help. 

https://www.orsis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/A1140-1.pdf

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Dont think i have any CT clamps, the cables are conected into the meter itself.

BPLightlog
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That does look very odd @MJCommando . Your screen shot shows the OVO usage which is what the meter is reporting unless there are any estimates on your account for July.

Do you have a monitor for the solar? If so what does it show? What do your before and after readings indicate? The same as the July account presumably. Are you sure that you haven’t mistaken one of the readings?

Being 3 phase, it can depend how the inverter is set up for export. Whether it is exporting on one phase or balanced across phases.

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Jeffus
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Dont think i have any CT clamps, the cables are conected into the meter itself.

Then perhaps post some pictures of the meter and wiring just in case any of the regular posters notice anything that is worth you investigating

 

Jeffus
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@MJCommando have you asked ovo if they will fit a three phase Smart meter?  They have started to do this for some setups in some regions

 

 

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Hi BPLightlog,  Thanks

answer below

Do you have a monitor for the solar? If so what does it show? Monitoring is sort of working, one of the CT clamps is playing up but i have what was produced.

What do your before and after readings indicate?  before and after what? and on what equipment?

The same as the July account presumably. Are you sure that you haven’t mistaken one of the readings? do you mean that ive taken the reading incorrectly? i look a picture of the reading.

Picure below of my meter.  the CT clamps are for my SolarEdge Solar system but they are not working correctly yet (Whaich is a real shame!!)  Im working with SolarEdge to fix them and my stats.  Currently the APP is reporting i produced 784.96 kWh.

 

 thanks

 

Mark

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@MJCommando have you asked ovo if they will fit a three phase Smart meter?  They have started to do this for some setups in some regions

 

 

so many times that ive given up….

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Being 3 phase, it can depend how the inverter is set up for export. Whether it is exporting on one phase or balanced across phases.

Should be balanced across the three phases; os this is what the installer is telling me.

BPLightlog
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…

Im working with SolarEdge to fix them and my stats.  Currently the APP is reporting i produced 784.96 kWh.

 

If you take the 785kwh from your July usage, what does the month look like?

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Jeffus
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@MJCommando

Might be useful to know what the import and export registers are showing on the meter

You may already have this manual or something similar. 

https://www.camax.co.uk/downloads/A1140-complete-manual.pdf

The manual mentions different variants of the meter, some import only, so it might be worth some investigating what your version of the A1140 model is and what each of the registers is meant to do with export. 

BPLightlog
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The manual mentions different variants of the meter, some import only, so it might be worth some investigating what your version of the A1140 model is and what each of the registers is meant to do with export. 

That might also affect what readings you are recording. 
Some meters have a ‘total’ register as well as an active import register. Pre your solar install, it may not have mattered which you viewed but now there might be a significant difference with the generation added to the consumption 

From the manual 

 

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@MJCommando

Might be useful to know what the import and export registers are showing on the meter

You may already have this manual or something similar. 

https://www.camax.co.uk/downloads/A1140-complete-manual.pdf

The manual mentions different variants of the meter, some import only, so it might be worth some investigating what your version of the A1140 model is and what each of the registers is meant to do with export. 

Thanks will give this a look tonight…

 

Mark

Abby_OVO
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Hey @MJCommando 

 

There’s some really great advice here from BPLightlog and Jeffus. Keep us updated with how you get on with this, it could also be helpful for other community users in the future.

Location: Electric Avenue
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So ive taken a good look and all i can work out is that i believe the reading that i am providing OVO is from the screen that shows a “CUM” which according to page 49 in the manual is accumulative (Import and export).

As i have an old 3 phase  meter i dont think that it was configured with import/export in mind so ill have to pick this up with OVO.

Ive put a call in to OVO for support last week but haven't heard back.  How good are the customer service team at getting back to you? or do you have to call in to get answers?

BPLightlog
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I haven’t had too much need to get in touch so not sure but from a few posts here, you may need to push it. 
There may be an ‘active import’ reading which would be what you need to record

 

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Yeh i did see that, im going to call them to chase them up and try and explain the issue to them.

 

Hopefully ill get through to someone that can understand…  would be much easier if you could raise a ticket and convers by email to them also.

 

Will feed back when i have more info and thanks everyone for your input

Abby_OVO
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Hey @MJCommando 

 

Sorry to hear about the issues you’ve been having. BPLightlog flagged to us to check on any developments with 3-phase smart meter bookings.

 

In regards to fitting 3-phase smart meters, the installations in domestic properties are few and far between, so it's a minority of meter engineers across the country that have the skills required to complete these installations. There are also some technical challenges in making sure your job is allocated to an engineer with these skills but we are just as keen as you are to have Smart available for these sites ASAP, so if you would like to take part in this beta stage release, please consider the steps below:


From the start of May 2023, if you have a single rate 3 phase meter (i.e. not Economy 7 / 2-rate etc.) we would encourage you to book a smart meter appointment as normal online or over the phone on 0330 303 5063.


This will then go through to a specialist team who will validate that it is single rate job and that an 3 phase engineer is available in your region. If this is the case, they will re-book your appointment with the right engineer. (So please bear in mind your appointment date/time will likely change, but we'll try to keep it the same where possible.)


Unfortunately, if you have a 2-rate meter or are not in an area covered by our current crop of 3 phase skilled engineers, you will need to continue with your heritage meter. We know this will be frustrating, so we are sorry about that, we are working to expand our coverage and by you flagging your interest to us, you are helping us shape where and when that coverage develops.

 

You can check out more on this topic below on 3-phase smart meters:

 

 

So ive taken a good look and all i can work out is that i believe the reading that i am providing OVO is from the screen that shows a “CUM” which according to page 49 in the manual is accumulative (Import and export).

As i have an old 3 phase  meter i dont think that it was configured with import/export in mind so ill have to pick this up with OVO.

Ive put a call in to OVO for support last week but haven't heard back.  How good are the customer service team at getting back to you? or do you have to call in to get answers?

 

I’d recommend contacting the Support Team now that they’re open again, as they may need to work through some back log for call backs, but are available to take your incoming calls now.

Location: Electric Avenue
Jeffus
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@MJCommando

If it helps you could give ovo a link to this thread

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meters-136/solar-export-incrementing-none-smart-3-phase-meter-15630

You could do that via webchat or a Direct message via the ovo twitter or facebook page if you use them. 

 

In a Direct private message via Facebook or twitter include your name, address, account number and date of birth to get pass security

 

https://www.facebook.com/ovoenergy

 

Abby_OVO
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Hey @MJCommando 

 

Did you have any luck getting these problems resolved?

Location: Electric Avenue
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UPDATE:

Manged to speak to OVO about what i think is the problem and after being passed around a few times i spoke to someone that would at least listen.

They wanted to swap out my three phase meter for a single phase meter as they thought this would be a good idea… clearly they have no clue and i had refuse to be fobbed off and forced the person i was talking to, to go seek advice.

They spoke to the SEG team and confirmed that the reading on my meter was “Probably” accumulative (Import and export).  So their resolution is to send an engineer out in 6 weeks time to take a look,  As this is the earliest that they have one available.

I pointed out that until then OVO are charging me for all of my export at a rate of .28p and how would that we resolved?  For this they had no answers.  They said they might be able to swap y three phase meter out for a new smart meter but again they had no answer about my 1700kWh’s bill for last month and this month…

I dont have any hope that i will be refunded for this as it does not appear that anyone at OVO knows what to do or wants to take responsibility.  Every time i call up i get a different person and i have to explain the whole problem again.

They also keep telling me that they are going to come out and fit a smart meter on my gas until i get them to do a little research into my account and then they realise that i have a 16u connection and they don’t have a smart meter for a connection of that size… 

My annual electrical energy consumption is about 12000kWh a year and pay OVO a lot of month for both electric and gas… (Dont ask what my gas bill is :-) )  If i spend this much month with another  for a service id have dedicated account manager and better account management.

Anyway ill wait the 6 weeks and just hope that the engineer that comes out knows what he is doing, brings a three phase smart meter with him and someone back at OVO can reconcile my bill.. until then im paying them to take my energy...lol

 

thank you to eveyone on here with the help so far...

BPLightlog
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To be honest @MJCommando , in your situation I might be tempted to disconnect the solar feed for the minute - there should be isolators to do this. 

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To be honest @MJCommando , in your situation I might be tempted to disconnect the solar feed for the minute - there should be isolators to do this. 

well id have to do it for 6 weeks until the engineer visits…  

Emmanuelle_OVO
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Hey @MJCommando,

 

Really sorry to hear this,

 

I’m going to see if I can seek out any advice about this internally, it seems to be quite a complex issue. 

Renewable Energy? Big Fan.
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Hey @MJCommando,

 

Really sorry to hear this,

 

I’m going to see if I can seek out any advice about this internally, it seems to be quite a complex issue. 

Thanks @Emmanuelle_OVO I just need someone to take ownership at OVO.  I think its fairly simple for somone for somone in the SEG team and also someone who knows how my three phase meter is setup.

Appreciate your help on this.

BPLightlog
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Hi @MJCommando , I still wonder if there is another meter register you can get to 

I know that you mention the CUM (cumulative) register but perhaps there is further info available as above. 
Ultimately it might come down to the set up of the meter from manufacturing as we’ve mentioned before which would mean either a meter exchange as faulty or for reprogramming (more difficult).

Looking at the data recorded in the meter, OVO might be able to extract the reverse flow total which would be evidence of the historical reduction you are looking for

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