Issues getting a replacement THTC Meter in Scottish Highlands

Hey ​@janie,

Thanks for coming back and confirming for us. I know there’s currently a campaign to raise awareness of THTC/RTS replacements. I know once the solution is ready to communicate we have a list of those who have existing failed installations. I believe the plan is to outbound call and follow up with an email but if I hear anymore i’ll let you know!

​@Chris_OVO 

Thank you 

As an update to my earlier questions, I have not yet received any response from the Engineers at OVO subsequent to my failed installation in December 2024.  I look forward to further communications by email as advised by Chris OVO.  It is a shame that there will be no update communication before the solution is ready, as that leaves us still waiting with uncertainty.

My complaint is now at the ombudsman stage.  Via the ombudsman portal, I have just been advised this week that a remote contactor may be the advised solution but that is still in the test phase and no assurances can be provided about timescale.  Timescale may be impacted by feasibility of the solution and availability of resource to implement.  Whilst I have no understanding of what that new engineering solution means, it appears different to the previous advice that it may be a ‘dumb mode’ smart meter or heritage meter solution to be installed.

The following issues are still unresolved:

Failure to communicate effectively nor have an effective process for managing RTS switch customers

Lack of transparent public information about progress of the switch over

Failure to plan and lack of clarity of roles/decision making on switch off date/communication

No assurances vulnerable customers will not have failed heating systems or additional cost

Vulnerable customers still being threatened with loss of heating and hot water systems in June.

Just a reminder: The final RTS Shutdown is September 2025, not June 2025. That gives a few extra months of leeway for edge cases like yours.

OVO’s hands are kinda tied by the industry here - this an industry issue, not an OVO exclusive one. There’s not much more that I can say about that which I haven’t already mentioned somewhere on the Forum.

I’m afraid I can’t comment again for the next week or so as I’m on holiday from now until the end of the month.

These are just my personal thoughts as a Forum Volunteer on the OVO Forum. Please do not treat them as a response from OVO because they are absolutely not intended to be official at all.

Failure to communicate effectively nor have an effective process for managing RTS switch customers

This has been a looooooooooooooong project for which tons of communications have been going out via various channels - even door knocking in some cases. We’ve also had a LOT of Forum discussions and content created specifically about RTS stuff as far back as 2020 - I wrote some of it myself - so even if it’s not been visible, OVO has been working like mad on it

Lack of transparent public information about progress of the switch over

Simply look around the OVO Forum - tons of info has been posted just on the Forum alone. Alas, there’s no point posting public updates just for the sake of posting one. It’s more useful to post when something actually worth shouting about is ready to go.

Failure to plan and lack of clarity of roles/decision making on switch off date/communication

Timing/roles/decisions: Out-Of-Scope. That is an industry decision, not an OVO decision. Communication: Partially In-Scope, but only for alerting OVO customers and arranging meter/tariff upgrades

No assurances vulnerable customers will not have failed heating systems or additional cost

There are failsafe mechanisms in place which may mitigate the impact - but OVO didn’t design them so OVO has no way of knowing how well they’ll work. This is 40+ year old tech from so long ago that basically everyone who designed and built it has retired!

Vulnerable customers still being threatened with loss of heating and hot water systems in June.

The deadline is September - if you are able to migrate, you should do so NOW even if you don’t want to, so that OVO can focus on those who are vulnerable or more complicated as we get closer to September. The messaging has to be strong though, otherwise a lot of folks will just ignore it.

The problem there is that it’s a Catch-22. If OVO gets lazy and just stops trying to engage, inevitably someone is going to try and blame OVO for not telling them about the RTS Shutdown when their home turns into an ice cube as a result of their own inaction. By pulling out all the stops, OVO does at least have the ability to argue that reasonable efforts were made to contact everyone affected.

Just to make you aware, there's many, many customers in a similar position to yourself. For example, in Shetland there's a reported 5,000 RTS installs and the feedback from customer installs is that the connection rate is very poor. OVO, following a request from local CAB, held a drop in session in Shetland last week with tech experts, accounts experts and customer support. The session was attended by 300+ customers and I suspect many of the points you've raised were probably also raised at this session. I'm hoping it'll maybe result in some positive outcomes. 

Looking again at your helpful photos, it seems that the RTS is not in the same place as the meters it’s controlling. This may be the problem that caused the first installation effort to be aborted. A meter engineer is not equipped to replace all the wiring needed to connect the new meter to the consumer unit (the white fuse box above the RTS) when they’re in different places, so that’s what the OVO infrastructure team will be seeking a solution for.

I don’t remember any mention of there being a problem with communication with the smart meter network (the WAN) in your case, so it may not be a question of installing a different sort of meter. When were you given “the previous advice that it may be a ‘dumb mode’ smart meter or heritage meter solution to be installed”? I hope you’re not comparing your own situation to those of other customers - every installation is unique, so the advice given to one will not necessarily apply to anyone else.

I need some advice please. 

Bought a house in The Highlands a year ago.

The lady I bought from was with Ovo on Economy 10 tariff (storage heaters and immersion for hot water).

I contacted Ovo to take over the account and be put on Economy 10 tariff.

Discovered that they only put me on that tariff for a few days and then swapped me to Economy 7 where the cheaper rates are 3am-6am, 1pm-3pm and 8.45pm-9.45pm. 

My problem is that the storage heaters are calling to store heat at different times to these. 

How do I resolve this please?

Any advice gratefully received. 

Thank you.

Oh dear, that sounds like a mess. Let’s get some details right first.

Do you have access to your online account? If so, the name and details of the plan you’re on should be on the Plan page. In most cases, these will include the peak and offpeak hours. Economy 7 always allows at least 7 hours offpeak (hence the name), yet the times you gave only add up to 6 hours. If these aren’t available online, where did you find out that these were your offpeak hours? 

Can you say precisely when the storage heaters are charging up? How can you tell?

If a meter is governing the times when heating equipment is charging up, the times should match those at which the tariff changes from peak to offpeak and vice versa. If you’re seeing a mismatch, it depends very much on the type of meter how to deal with it. What sort of meters do you have?

It would be most helpful to see photos: close-ups of meters clear enough to allow us to read the display and other markings (if the display is dark, touch a button to light it up), and a view of the whole meter backboard showing all the cables to and from the meter(s) and other equipment on it. 

I live in the West Coast of Scotland near Oban and have heard horror stories from folk living in my area regarding the new smart meters not receiving  a signal, engineers refusing to install as meters too far away from distribution panel, and many others on the THTC forum on Facebook . I have the old style dimplex storage heaters and hot water storage and cannot afford to replace them. They all work perfectly well for my purposes.

I don't want to let OVO near my meters until they can guarantee a working smart meter.

But the day will come and I need to know exactly which questions  to ask the OVO engineer before he removes my two thtc meters.

Can anyone suggest what questions  to ask as I have little understanding of electrics...such as will I be guaranteed economy 10?

and secondly, what are the consequences if I refuse a so called smart meter. Will I be cut off?

Hello Firedog,

Thank you for responding to me. 

I logged in to the account and it seems we have a Simpler Energy Flex Rate Account.

The reason i thought it was E7 was because when I rang Ovo on Friday to enquire about the switch off and the fact we hadn't been contacted, the gentleman I spoke to gave me our E7 times (which it now seems we are not on).

I only know when the Dimplex storage heater in the kitchen is heating because a red light appears on the switch (see photo). The others are so old they don't have this facility. 

I attach some photographs......it seems I can only attach one at a time via my mobile. 

I am very grateful for your help and advice. 

Thank you. 

Thank you Firedog for the further information. I believe you description in paragraph 1 is along the lines of what my issue may be.

As I understand it, I do not have an issue with the WAN that I have been made aware of.  The previous information provided was from Chris OVO in which I was tagged following a request to provide an update for me, so I made the assumption that the response was for me, and that meant 2 options were under consideration.  I feel that if those suggestions were not relevant for me, that should have been stated in the update.

What I may deduce now, is that at that time 2 months ago, that engineering response was not relevant for me and I should have been informed that no solution was yet under consideration.  

That is why I asked earlier if the known issues and options could be shared, that would give customers reassurance and demonstrate that there is some kind of structure to OVO’s handling of this issue. I understand that each installation is different, but surely by now, OVO should have some concept of the engineering solutions under development and in which month they plan to deliver them.  Also those customers for whom the set up is so complex that nothing is yet being worked on.  That could then inform national decision makers about the feasibility of switch off dates being proposed and how many customers that will affect.

Oban Station is all of 10 miles from the Torosay TV transmission tower on Mull, so if there’s a smart meter WAN antenna on that tower, the signal should be strong enough to fry the eyeballs of anyone near Oban. Is that where your TV aerial points? Of course, there may be local barriers to the signal where you live, like buildings - including the one you live in. In any case, the installing engineer will have checked whether you’re likely to have good WAN communication before he comes.

The big difference between an RTS-controlled THTC system and one controlled by a smart meter is that there will no longer be a 24-hour heating circuit at a cheaper rate. If you have night storage heaters (NSH), then a split tariff like Economy 7 or Economy 10 might be a good option. If you have only direct heaters - ‘electric radiators’, panel heaters, oil-filled radiators, underfloor heating or any other variety that only emit heat when they’re on - then a tariff like that may not be the best bet.

A smart meter can be set to switch power to heating equipment (both space and water heating) only during offpeak hours, so you’re less likely to have them consuming electricity at peak rates. Another advantage of this is that all consumption during offpeak hours is billed at offpeak rates, regardless of what it’s used for. The Economy 10 tariff gives three hours offpeak during the night, three in the afternoon and four in the late evening:
  

I’ve done a few comparisons to illustrate the relative costs of these four different plans. You’ll see that the cost depends very largely on the proportion of total consumption that takes place in offpeak hours. It’s not unusual for an electrically-heated household in Scotland to use up to 80% of all the energy it consumes during offpeak hours, since heating will always take the lion’s share of it. You’ll see that a split tariff will not pay if you use less than ⅓ offpeak over the year.
  

The differing outcomes for the split-rate plans illustrate the cost of the comfort level they entail; some customers will happily pay a bit more overall in order to have the ability to turn on a direct heater in the evening at offpeak rates if it gets too chilly in front of the TV.   

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to find the rates that will come into force on 1 April. We know that the price-capped unit rate will rise by about 6.7%, but it’s not yet been announced whether this will apply to any of OVO’s rates. The maximum standing charge will fall by almost 2%.

To your last question, if your meters are not exchanged before the RTS shutdown, there’s no knowing what will happen to your heating. It might stay on 24 hours a day at peak rates, it might not come on at all or it might carry on to more or less the same schedule as before. There is a possibility, however, that suppliers (like OVO) will be forbidden to supply electricity to customers with RTS-controlled systems. I can’t imagine the uproar that would ensue were this to happen, though.

Thanks for your reply. That's most informative.

Thanks for those really helpful photos. I can’t see just how things are wired up or which circuits the breakers in the consumer units are connected to. I would expect the storage heaters and the immersion heater to be on a circuit controlled by the RTS meter. The meter should both switch the equipment on and off and record the electricity they use on an offpeak register. You should then be billed for this usage at the offpeak rate. 

That said, I can’t tell what the second (Ferranti) meter is doing; could this be for a 24-hour heating circuit? 

In any case, the times when your heaters charge up are probably determined by the RTS in the Horstmann meter, which might explain the odd times you were given. This is what will stop working as expected when the RTS signal is switched off  at the end of June. You can tell whether this is the case by watching the meter when the red light is on the at the heater in the kitchen. Press the blue button on the meter until you see all eights across the numerical display. Then press it again; you may see the date , and the time on the next press, but you might see the reading on register 1, the peak rate. The next press should show rate 2 for offpeak. Go through all the screens you see - repeated presses just cycle through all the various screens. Make a note of the readings for rate 1 and 2, and of the reading on the Ferranti meter. Go back to the meter an hour later and note the readings again; the one that has increased most will be the one for the storage heaters, hopefully rate 2. 

This might involve a bit of trial and error to establish which meter is registering what. You might have to do the same exercise again while the heaters are not charging (red light off), this time taking the readings, then boiling the kettle a couple of times and taking them again. This will tell you which meter/register is recording ‘everything else’.  Please let us know what you found out.

You will have to ask for these meters to be exchanged for a smart meter as soon as possible, to be sure of getting sorted out before RTS shuts down. If the other storage heaters are like the one in your photo, I’d guess that Economy 7 would be a good option. I’ve just explained some of the implications of the various tariffs in some detail in another thread, so you might get some insight from there: 
  

Hi ​@CazS,

I really understand how concerning the RTS shutdown is, especially for those like yourself who have meter setups that require extra work to be done. I just want to reassure you that we have teams behind the scenes working tirelessly on all of this in collaboration with the wider Industry. Any issues or appointment blockers are being logged by the teams working on the RTS shutdown, with fixes being put in place. We still have some months to go with this, and hopefully all issues should be resolved in time for the shutdown date. This is the current plan as it stands.

Thank you so much for your reply. 

After some investigation I think the Horstmann meter is registering the storage heaters and hot water and the  Ferranti meter is for everything else.

I am going to leave things as they are for the moment and see what becomes of the smart meter installation saga which is where all this confusion began. I initially rang Ovo as we have yet to receive any sort of notification as to when the meters are to be upgraded as apparently there is no WAN signal here (and several neighbours I have spoken to had no idea about the imminent RTS switch off, which is also a worry.)

I really appreciate all the help you have given me on this forum, you have helped me to understand it a little more. 

Thank you. 

Hey ​@lauriancotes 

Sorry to hear about all of this, I’m glad one of our volunteers has been able to help in some way! 

You’re not alone in being in a no WAN area awaiting an RTS replacement and I know it’s something the team are working hard on and contacting with solutions as soon as they can.

It does sound like it might be best to wait until that’s been solved and may save you messing with things twice, but it’s hard to tell without knowing the replacement solution so I’m sorry we can’t be of more help on that.

Feel free to pop back any time, and if you’re still concerned about having no contact about a replacement in a few weeks time do let us know and we’ll see if we can gain any further updates down the line.

That’s not likely, I think. The Horstmann has two registers, one for peak usage and the other for offpeak. The offpeak register will be measuring what the storage heaters - space and water - are using. The peak register will measure everything else connected to it that isn’t a storage heater. 

The tariff you’re on has only two rates: heating (lower) and everything else (higher).  You’ll have to check whether what the Ferranti is recording is charged at the lower rate or not. This was the usual arrangement for RTS systems in N Scotland - an offpeak rate for storage heating, a second for any other heating equipment, and a third, peak, rate for everything else. I’d be surprised if the Ferranti were recording, say, cooking, washing and lighting usage and charging it at the low rate. I think it’s more likely that that sort of usage is going through the peak register on the Horstmann. Check the latest bill!

That sounds sensible, so long as you get the meters exchanged before next winter.

One last question - you say ‘there is no WAN signal here’. Where is ‘here’? The Highlands is a vast area, poorly served with TV transmitters especially north of the Great Glen, but it’s on those masts where the smart meter network aerials are most often mounted. If you get a reasonable TV signal from one of the main towers, there’s a good chance of getting into contact with the WAN.