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Economy 7 storage heaters and low EPC rating- Should we go single rate?

  • 22 February 2023
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M
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Good day, we have three very old (1992) storage heaters in our flat. SSE installed our smart meter last year in April and it provides us with day and night readings on Economy 7. We are now with OVO. We are happy to continue although the cost of running them is very high. However, our EPC rating is F! Other factors contribute to this low rating but we need to change the heaters if we want to sell our flat in the future and increase the EPC rating.  I understand from other posts that OVO cannot change the meter to single rate so it appears we have to find modern storage heaters that still use economy 7 but do not give us such a low EPC rating. Is there no way OVO will change the meter to single rate if we find alternative  heating. I should add we are all electric, no gas supply. Thank you! 

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Best answer by M.isterW 22 February 2023, 19:16

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Blastoise186
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Hey @Michali !

To be honest… If you’re on Storage Heaters then you are best remaining on Economy 7 until you come off them.

While OVO can’t directly change the meter settings per se, there is a trick they can do. And that’s to set the tariff rate to be the same across both registers so that it simulates a flat rate. It’s not perfect, but it does the job really well!

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!
Jeffus
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Good day, we have three very old (1992) storage heaters in our flat. SSE installed our smart meter last year in April and it provides us with day and night readings on Economy 7. We are now with OVO. We are happy to continue although the cost of running them is very high. However, our EPC rating is F! Other factors contribute to this low rating but we need to change the heaters if we want to sell our flat in the future and increase the EPC rating.  I understand from other posts that OVO cannot change the meter to single rate so it appears we have to find modern storage heaters that still use economy 7 but do not give us such a low EPC rating. Is there no way OVO will change the meter to single rate if we find alternative  heating. I should add we are all electric, no gas supply. Thank you! 

@Michali what are you thinking of swapping the old storage heaters to in order to improve the EPC? 

 

M
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@Michali what are you thinking of swapping the old storage heaters to in order to improve the EPC? 

 

no idea right now! Any suggestions that take into account the issues above, please? 

M
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Hey @Michali !

To be honest… If you’re on Storage Heaters then you are best remaining on Economy 7 until you come off them.

While OVO can’t directly change the meter settings per se, there is a trick they can do. And that’s to set the tariff rate to be the same across both registers so that it simulates a flat rate. It’s not perfect, but it does the job really well!

That’s very useful information! Thanks! I will keep that in mind. I just have to find a way (or storage heaters) that will increase the EPC rating. 

Firedog
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To be honest… If you’re on Storage Heaters then you are best remaining on Economy 7 until you come off them.

@Michali

I’d suggest that you do your sums before deciding. The E7 night rate was increased by a lot at the last price-cap review on 1 January, far enough to persuade me to switch to a flat rate using the trick that @Blastoise186 mentioned. I don’t know if this graph would be of any help to you:
  

The cost figures are calculated using current (2023Q1) rates for the East Midlands region. Costs will be different for users elsewhere, but the proportions will be similar. 

  
You’ll see that for E7 to be cheaper, you have to be using more than 42% of your annual electricity consumption at the off-peak rate. This would be quite normal for those with night-storage heaters. If you need help working this out, shout!

 

Noel | I have no official status; I'm just a volunteer who comes here to help other customers. My gear: Aclara SGM 1416-B Electricity-only E7 meter; Chameleon IHD3-PPMID-AAA
M.isterW
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Which area in your EPC needs improving? Can you post the scores for each area?

1992 4 bed detached house. Solar PV + battery, Zappi EV charger, Mitsubishi Ecodan ASHP and i-life2 fan assisted radiators.... No gas 😊
M
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Thank you so much! That is a brilliant graph! So I am presently dark yellow and would be light yellow if I changed to simpler energy. At the moment we are definitely using over 42% of our energy consumption but I don’t have an annual average yet. I would have to look back at my SSE bills as I have only been with OVO for a few months. The OVO app is way better than the SSE one! But I come back to the EPC concern. If I remove the old storage heaters and go on the simpler energy plan, with an alternative heating system, it appears I would be paying more annually and surely that would adversely affect the EPC rating? 

Jeffus
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Certainly if you switch your Storage Heaters for any direct electric heating your EPC will be worse, simply due to the way the EPC rating is calculated. 

Whether you are on E7 or not doesn’t effect your rating.

You can probably improve your EPC with things like insulating, LED lights etc. 

There should be details on your EPC if you have a copy as @M.isterW has mentioned. Can you post the details? Without personal information obviously. 

You could almost certainly get a higher rating for more modern storage heaters, but there will be other things you can do as well. 

 

 

 

juliamc
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If you have access to the roof you could install pv ? 

M
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You guys are great! This EPC is several years old but not much has changed, except the lighting. 

The building is a council building, solid brick I believe and is comprised of 20 flats. We own a flat on the ground floor.

The hot water is supplied by an Ariston water heater. I don’t understand why this has a poor rating as it only kicks in to heat water when necessary. It is not off peak as reported below. I would have thought it was energy efficient, but it seems not!

The lighting would now be deemed very good as we only use low energy bulbs. 

 

Blastoise186
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No worries!

Here’s a report from a property that scored B for comparison, in case it helps.

It’s a one-bed flat in a Supported Living environment, built within the last 20 years.

If you’d like to know anything more about this particular report or how my flat is set up, let me know

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!
M
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If you have access to the roof you could install pv ? 

No, I’m on the ground floor of a 20 flat building 

M
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@Blastoise186 Id be more than happy with a C! 

M.isterW
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I would ignore the EPC and focus on comfort and cost for your heating. You want a system that heats the property effectively and isn't too expensive to run.

Storage heaters aren't a bad option for running costs, if you have cheap rate overnight electricity. You can get modern versions but they aren't much better than the old ones. There's not much you can improve on them.

If you want to heat rooms selectively you could use different electric heaters. They will cost more to run for each heater but you'd be heating less of the property.

You could fit a completely new system with pipework and radiators and a Tepeo electric boiler. That uses cheap rate electricity to provide heating and hot water. It would be expensive and disruptive but should work very well. An alternative with radiators is an air source heat pump but you might not have space for the outside unit.

The final option you might consider is an air to air heat pump. This heats using warm air and as it's a heat pump it's far more efficient. You'd need to get an expert to tell you if it would be suitable for your flat.

1992 4 bed detached house. Solar PV + battery, Zappi EV charger, Mitsubishi Ecodan ASHP and i-life2 fan assisted radiators.... No gas 😊
Jeffus
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Hi @Michali

Good advice from @M.isterW

1. You can look at the EPC for any property, so perhaps have a look at some of your neighbours to see what they have done and what rating they have. 

https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

Then you can see what is realistic and perhaps even approach some of them

2. I am not sure if you are looking to improve the EPC so it is easier to sell the property or whether as @M.isterW mentions you are looking to improve comfort and running costs for yourself? You will probably do different things depending on your plans

3. Many of us have to work to a capital budget, even with the knowledge it may save us running costs. Have you thought about a budget? 

 

M
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Hi @Michali

Good advice from @M.isterW

1. You can look at the EPC for any property, so perhaps have a look at some of your neighbours to see what they have done and what rating they have. 

https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

Then you can see what is realistic and perhaps even approach some of them

2. I am not sure if you are looking to improve the EPC so it is easier to sell the property or whether as @M.isterW mentions you are looking to improve comfort and running costs for yourself? You will probably do different things depending on your plans

3. Many of us have to work to a capital budget, even with the knowledge it may save us running costs. Have you thought about a budget? 

 

  1. I see all my neighbors have a C rating but they all still have gas, boilers and central heating. We made poor choices when we bought the property in 1992. At that time nobody here had central heating and we were advised we would not be allowed to. Some years later all the council tenants were fitted with central heating! As we didn’t live here, we left things as they were. 
  2. Definitely  more concerned for my children selling the property when we are no longer alive! 
  3. I have not put much attention to a budget as yet. I’d hate to spend a bunch of money and still end up with a low rating, giving my children a hard time to sell the property. 
M.isterW
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TBH people don't look at EPC ratings when buying a property, which isn't a surprise as EPCs are largely pointless.

1992 4 bed detached house. Solar PV + battery, Zappi EV charger, Mitsubishi Ecodan ASHP and i-life2 fan assisted radiators.... No gas 😊
M
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They do seem to be inconsistent! 
 

I am so grateful to all of you who have responded to my post. I have received so much good advice. A great forum! 

juliamc
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I’d be tempered to consider cavity wall insulation, but not sure how that would be done without neighbouring flats getting it at the same time. 

M
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I think it’s solid brick and it’s a council building, so don’t think that’s possible. 

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