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Can't have Smart Meters fitted because the Meters are 'too close' together?

  • 10 October 2022
  • 28 replies
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Hi all

rightly or wrongly, been trying to get smart metres fitted to gas and electricity.

Booked up a free visit last year with OVO engineer and he took one look at it and said can't do it gov because your gas and electricity metres are too close to each other.

And off he went.

So, been toing and froing with OVO and they said they will be able to fit smart metres if minimum distance between said meters is achieved and it will cost me £125 to them to movement the gas metre, or so I thought.....

So booked a date in November for what I thought was going to be OVO to move the gas metre and was then told to phone Cadent i.e. British Gas for them to actually repositioned meter.

 Got a provisional quote from them for £790 to move it less than a metre !!

The cadent person also said there is no legal requirement for a minimum distance to be achieved for older gas and electricity installations although these days there is for new installations.

Googled it and couldn't find anything relating to it other than forum posts discussing whether there is room for the smart metres or not but don't have that problem at all here.

So, obviously not going to pay them £790 to move a gas metre and looks like I'll have to ask for the £125 I paid to OVO back unless of course anyone here knows different and the first engineer wasn't quite correct in saying I can't have smart metres due to the closeness of the existing meters? Hope someone can help out.

Thanks in advance 

 

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Best answer by Lukepeniket_OVO 11 October 2022, 16:31

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Blastoise186
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Howdy @Wishboneash ,

Can you show us photos of the meters please - and especially how close they are to each other! We’ve got ways to help you figure this one out. :)

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Hi

Thanks for reply. 

Pic herewith 

 

Blastoise186
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Piece of cake! I could literally swing a cat in that gap!

With some clever positioning, you can easily fit a SMETS2 Aclara SGM1416-B and either an EDMI Standard 420 or Toshiba/WNC SKU1 Cellular Comms Hub in that space on the backboard.

And if there’s a tight squeeze… There’s clever tricks that engineers can now use.

As for the gas meter? LOOOOOADS of room! The SMETS2 Flonidan UniFlo is actually about the same size as your existing gas meter. :)

And no, I’ve never heard of meters ever being too close together either. Too far away is also a non-issue 99% of the time, thanks to a very clever smart meter engineer friend of mine. :P

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Oh, ok  thanks.

So was last years engineer who visited incorrect then ?

Plus ovo seem to concur meters too close and either lecy meter or gas meter need to be certain min distance apart. ? 

Blastoise186
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Possibly.

There is someone I can ask for a second opinion, but I need to get moderator approval first. You OK to hold on for a bit?

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From ovo previously:-

"

Hello Paul,

 

Thank you for your email.

We would love to help you with this query! We can indeed move the meter however only by 100cm. If you require further than 100cm you would then need to get in contact with your network distributor

If you require further information on who your distribute network is feel free to click here to guide you on how you can find the information required.

Thanks

Sinead"

Blastoise186
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If you have to move a meter, I’d move the electric because it’s definitely easier and cheaper. Bear with me, I’ll ask around for some help.

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Tim_OVO
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There is someone I can ask for a second opinion, but I need to get moderator approval first. You OK to hold on for a bit?

 

I know who this is. I agree let’s see if @Lukepeniket_OVO has a spare second to give us their take on if the elec and gas meter here look too close:

 

 

 

 

Carbon neutral - we need a community to get there! My green tech: Aclara SGM 1411-B smart meter, Chameleon IHD6
Blastoise186
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There’s something else I’ve noticed too, just thought I’d mention it.

Your current gas meter appears to record usage in Cubic Feet and is considered an Imperial Gas Meter. All Smart Gas Meters are Metric Gas Meters and use Cubic Metres instead. OVO’s system will automatically handle the conversion to kWh for you either way and it will pick up on the fact you’ve gone from Imperial → Metric so you won’t need to do anything yourself there.

However, it’s definitely worth mentioning that you should avoid submitting meter readings after the gas meter is replaced until at least after the new gas meter is registered to your account.

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M
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Is it really a too close issue or is it that there isn’t much room to fit the electric meter and communications hub onto the backboard.

 

If the Gas meter is imperial, is it out of certification and needs to be renewed?  Its a Parkinson Cowan meter.

Eon and EDF customer. Don't think smart meters are worth the expense.
Blastoise186
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Hehehe, this is where our sekrit weapon comes in. If anyone knows the answer, Luke will. :)

But yes, I’d argue that gas meter probably is due for recertification - almost all imperial gas meters are most likely over 20 years old at this point.

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L
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Hi all, 

 

So immediately what jumps out at me is the tape measure on top of the Timeclock, gas meters and pipework should be a minimum of 150mm from the cutout/service cable, metering equipment and consumer units, for accessories like a switch or cables ot should be a minimum 25mm away.

I can see that both the timeclock and consumer unit are too close to the gas Meter. Looking at the meter outlet the engineer could re do the outlet so it can be moved further away (best method) or refit smart in that position whilst fitting adequate barriers which we do carry and filling out a warning notice  to advise yourself.

 

 

OVO Field Operations Team Leader
L
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Sorry the timeclock is far enough away but that would be removed as it's no longer needed.

OVO Field Operations Team Leader
Blastoise186
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Thanks Luke! I think I can see what you mean there.

Would/could it be a (fairly) simply case of rotating the gas meter outlet pipe to the other side (for example) and make use of what seems like a pretty long flexible hose to accommodate the inlet pipe?

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L
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Yeah basically sweating the 90 degree off in the top right and swinging it all around, but tbh as long as the barriers are there it's ok

OVO Field Operations Team Leader
Blastoise186
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Well, that sounds way easier than moving the meter then. Especially if it’s free?

On the plus side, you’d have literally the best gas meter signal ever! XD

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Blastoise186
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Just wanted to let you know @Wishboneash that we may have a solution for you thanks to Luke. Feel free to share this thread with the Support Team and ask them to review it, as I suspect it’ll result in some progress for you.

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Great, thanks All

Ovo now looking into it.....

Blastoise186
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No worries! Thanks for asking this question. :)

If you need us again, we’ll be here.

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Hello all

update on my mission to have smart metres fitted by OVO !

 Had an ovo engineer visit on Wednesday and he said no problem, can fit electric and gas smart metres for you sir.

Thought that's good we will make progress and get the 2 metersfitted. However, after he had fitted the electric smart metre he said it nearly finished electricity be back on in 5-minutes.

At this point he switched the main fuse on  and the existing RCD tripped and he couldn't get the old part of the original installation which is controlled by the RCD to liven up as the RCD would not allow it it.

fortunately, home insurance has emergency electrical cover so we duly contacted them and had an electrician out and he identified what he said was two earth shorts, 1 on a ring main and one on the lighting circuit.

But, he didn't have enough time for his allocated time slot from HomeServe  to do the necessary so he isolated the offending 2 circuits and then the RCD switched on ok.

But, went away for the weekend and found that the RCD had in fact tripped again and all the contents of the fridge spoiled as fridge not on for 2 or 3 days.

Had second HomeServe engineer this morning, and he says RCD is faulty and should be replaced or really the old original fuse board and one that was put on in the 80s should both be replaced by a modern circuit breaker consumer unit it with built-in RCD to each circuit I understand.

 

2nd engineer suggested installing smart meters can throw up probs with extg installation as smart meters more sensitive…?

Thought I was getting somewhere with ovo at last getting  the two smart metres but seems to have opened up a can of worms.

OVO engineer didn't fit the Gas smart metre as he spent so much time trying to get the electrics working in the house having fitted the electric smart metre.

Any thoughts from you guys who seem to know a lot more about these things than I do.!

Blastoise186
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Sounds like a job for @PeterR1947 :)

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BPLightlog
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A good electrician will have a device called an RCD tester. This would be able to check the operation of the RCD to see if it needs replacing. These devices operate by identifying any difference between current flowing through the live and neutral conductors which then indicates a current flowing to earth - potential a problem. 
A smart meter can add a small level of leakage but should not be a problem unless there are several other appliances leaking giving a high level and hence tripping the RCD. 
The RCD test would check all this as there are tests to see if it trips in a specified time but also that it doesn’t trip at lower levels (usually half the rated current). Most RCD’s would be rated at 30mA but others feeding higher levels could be 100mA and still be ok. 

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Thanks. I believe the homeserve electrician that just left, diagnosed the rcd fault with a rcd tester.

So, just replace the rcd then ?

But what about the 2 x earth shorts ?

BPLightlog
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Thanks. I believe the homeserve electrician that just left, diagnosed the rcd fault with a rcd tester.

So, just replace the rcd then ?

But what about the 2 x earth shorts ?

If the RCD was found to be faulty, yes. 
The earth shorts need to be traced and repaired - that can be tricky. There are devices to test this but an insulation tester would be the first thing to test on those circuits to check again. 
An earth leakage locator is not common and takes some experience to use. The circuits with the problem need to be identified and then they can be traced to look for any obvious faults in the switches, plugs, appliances or wiring. 

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How do all, im a plumbing and heating engineer that's currently fitting smart meters (electric and gas) I often see a lot of concern and general questions about meters on here and would be more than happy to try and answer / solve any concerns people may have.

 

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