Can a smart meter install disrupt your broadband connection and mobile signal?

Hi ​@shetland ,

Generally, it should not. However, sometimes things will go weird for a couple of hours as everything settles down - it should be fine after that.

The EDMI box in your screenshots is the communications hub. At first sight, it’s a standard one operating in the 420 MHz band for the WAN, so probably connecting to an antenna on the Bressay TV mast. Some customers in Shetland hidden from Bressay may already have been fitted with comms hubs using a 4G SIM, but we’ve yet to see what that looks like. Anyway, transmissions at 423 MHz aren’t likely to interfere with anything else.

It’s a different question with the HAN, which operates in the 2.4 GHz band, the same used by many wireless gizmos around the home - including garage door openers, baby alarms - and wireless routers. The meter will be trying to update the In-Home Display with usage data and tariffs, so yes - more data than usual over the HAN in the period immediately following installation. There may be some interference as the various devices try to settle on different 2.4 GHz channels, but as Blastoise says, it should eventually settle down. 

I’m inclined to think that the mobile phone problems are unrelated and coincidental, but you never know. 

If you get the WiFi Analyser app which looks like the image below then you can see where your router is and if there is any competing traffic

Routers normally default to auto selecting the clearest channel. If set mine to be on Channel 13 to stop it hopping around.

Give it a go to see if anything is unusual.

Peter

Actually… By using Channel 13 you’re actually causing more problems on that graph boss! It’s causing MORE interference because of channel clashes!

You must use 1, 6 or 11 based on that environment. Based on that graph, you’ll want 11 or Auto.

I’m thinking that everyone may have jumped in a bit to quickly/deeply talking about interference and analyzing the various radio signals etc.

OK that is what ​@shetland asked, but I believe the explanation is much more simple.

Had a new smart meter fitted, right afterwards, our broadband ADSL wasn’t working and mobile phones, for 2 hours.

The power will have been turned off while the engineer changed the meter - and so your router/hub would have no power - and so your broadband would have been disconnected while the power was turned off.
So not ‘right afterwards’ - you would have lost broadband right at the start of the job.

THEN - Once the power was back on your router/hub would reboot and would reconnect to your Internet Service Provider, and  it would then have done some line checks and possibly router software/firmware updates which (if happening) would take more time while you had no connection.

As for the mobile phones - When you say the mobile phones weren’t working do you in fact just mean that they wouldn’t connect to the internet over wifi?
Did you try changing to using 3G/4G data instead of wifi?

You can reset your router/hub from a browser on your computer, but the easiest way to reset is simply to turn the hub off at the mains plug and then turn it back on again.

The router had its latest update a few years ago now. :-)

They are all manual activated anyhow.

It doesn’t usually take it 2 hours to get connected.

There is a backup mobile SIM router too, and that woudln’t connect either.

I coudln’get a connection on two 4G mobile phones either to a mobile signal.

Yep, I tried the, wait half an hour, turn router off, wait a few minutes, turn it on again approach, that often works.

After doing that for an hour, I left it, and another hour later, all was fine.

Since then, I think its been fine, though varioius wifi items around the house have been playing up a little, for a little while and then fine again.

The Smart meter I was told is set up to send updates every 30 minutes, so maybe that is causing an issue, perhaps when its all settled in, I’ll get that changed to every hour and see if it makes any noticable difference.

It well have been a coincidence, or it might not, hence I thought best to ask here, and see if it is a common thing to happen or not.

If it is common, then it might be an issue every half an hour to disrupt other local wifi/etc. which is a bit more of an issue, since I don’t want to stand around in the dark waiting for Alexa to recover enough so it can turn on that smart light for me !

I wonder if there is a handy tool for monitoring wifi activity to spot this ?

And when does the smart meter phone home, randomly, or on the hour, every hour ?

I have a feeling its got be somewhat random, or the airwaves would be clogged with everyone doing it at once. :-)
 

Smart Meters only usually speak when they’re spoken to - and the main comms back to the WAN happen overnight for sending readings etc. HAN stuff runs every 10 seconds to keep the Meters, IHD and Comms Hub in sync with each other.

You can use tools like Ubiquiti WiFiman to see what’s going on via your phone. If you have an iPhone however, you’ll probably need the Ubiquiti WiFiman Wizard companion device to actually see what’s going on due to Apple’s restrictions.

Actually, I have less problems on 13 than selecting something else or Auto. Don't ask me why and it may be counterintuitive or go against all the rules or logic but it's just the way it is in my location. Every radio environment is unique and my screenshot is a static version of what is happening because I'm guessing everyone else is on auto.

First, Nukecad will have realized that an ADSL modem doesn’t need mains power, does it? (Landline phones are supposed to work even during a power cut, as those who are losing them are always reminding us.)

The smart meter records usage every 30 minutes and stores the records for 13 months. If you say you’re happy to share your 30-minute usage data, OVO will request a day’s worth once a day over the WAN. It used to be always soon after midnight, but now with so many more choosing this option, it can be 24 or more hours later. 

The meter will be sending instantaneous power readings to the IHD over the HAN every 10 seconds. These tiny bursts can interfere with, and the transmission be disturbed by, other devices using the 2.4 GHz band as I mentioned yesterday. They will all find the channel with the least traffic eventually.  

So yes, I still think your mobile signal outage will have been coincidental. I don’t suppose it’s unusual, is it? (Mine drops at least once every 24 hours, soon after midnight, and sometimes two or three times during the day.)

Landlines can power a POTS (plain old telephone service) phone but not a router or DECT phone.

​@Nukecad Thanks for the interesting information on the interation between Zigbee and WiFi. Never had any problems with either with the router on 13 but the microwave oven kills at least the WiFi. I'm going to have a look at my IHD as I've never noticed that not working.

Update: The microwave doesn't kill the IHD but it does slow it down from aquiring a full set of data.

It's also just occurred to me that a microwave oven also has the potential to disrupt the WiFi communications between a router and a car charger even if the charger has a good signal level. If the communications protocol between the energy suppier’s servers and the charger is not compelled (it keeps on trying until it gets an acknowledgement) then that could be a significant source of charging failures.

I had realised that it was ADSL.
However while it doesn’t rely on mains power for telephone calls, when it comes to broadband the router/hub needs mains to operate, not least to be able to broadcast a wifi signal.

I will say my previous Technicolor router had once been ‘resetting’ for around 45 mins following a power outage. It was apparently having issues installing an update that had been prompted by the restart, and so kept retrying.

As speeds are slower with ADSL than with my own FTTC then I can see how a similar scenario could well take a couple of hours to resolve itself.

Let me guess… Technicolor TG582n by any chance?

I'd have to check the model when I get home.

I thinK it was a DGA0122 but could be wrong. (Edit- My memory hasn’t gone yet, it’s a DGA0122NLK).

I still have it sat in it's original box because it was on a ‘Dual Fuel + Broadband’ tariff from SSE who didn't want it back when the fix ended and I switched the Broadband to BTs Social tariff.

They probably didn’t want it back because OVO had taken them over.

In case it is of any use/interest, the main router is a:

DrayTek Vigor2860Vn-plus
 

Thanks for the link to metageek website, some useful, and also expensive solutions too !

Re.  2.4 GHz Zigbee, if I just unplug the seperate smart meter display unit, will it stop the Zigbee signal, or will the smart meter be forever trying to find it ?

Also, will unplugging the smart meter display unit thingy ( The seperate unit you plug into a wall socket for power. ) effect anything else negatively ?

I can live without it telling me how much money its costing me today :-)

Assuming its got accurate data on the unit rate !

Digging around a little, it seems to think the unit rate is 14p, and not 20p as mentioned by OVO several times.. I wonder what it really is ?

I guess I’ll find out i a couple of months time when the billing starts to get sorted out.

Hi ​@shetland , unplugging your in home display (IHD) will not disrupt anything. It’s simply meant as a consumer aid .. when it all works correctly.

It's also the IHD that signals and tries to join the Comms on the meter, not the other way around.

The unit rate is set at whatever your tariff is - that’s on your account and bills. The IHD generally picks up that figure from the meter when it’s connected.

Also worth noting that some ISP Routers take absolutely forever to come back online and/or (re)configure when powering up - TR-069 is literally the slowest thing on the planet for that. It’s one of the reasons I use my own kit.

That’s the problem with that protocol - it makes devices e-waste if you change ISP because the credentials and other required parameters cannot be updated to other ACS Servers...

It isn’t tied and can be reconfigured to connect to another ISP.

However it's not something I imaginge a non-techie user could manage or I would have put it on Freecycle. Most users just want plug-and-play without getting into settin up technicalities.

(I did briefly have it set up as a wifi LAN with no internet connection, but don't really have a use for that in a 1 bedroom flat).

Hey ​@shetland,

Is this now resolved? Did we get to the bottom of it? 😊 I can see some helpful suggestiong from our community members!

 

I’ve left it connected for now, the interference with other wifi/etc. units in the house appears to have disappeared, so hopefully everything has decided which channel is best.

Not done exhaustive testing yet, been busy with other stuff, but it is better at first glance. ( Alexa has stopped stuttering for example. )

If it doesn’t settle down completely, I’ll just unplug it.

I did ponder a signal checker, but since those are super expensive, like £1,000 I decided the cheaper option would be just to unplug it, if things are too much of an issue. :-)

I notice at the moment, the unit itself, is a bit wonky when it comes to giving you daily cost figures, eg. during the day it slowly creaps up in cost, then, come midmight, suddenly the price jumps and yesterdays is not what it said it was 5 minutes ago !

Check a few hours later, and it seems to have changed its mind again, this time giving what apears to be more realistic figures for yesterday and the day before.

I think I read someplace, that takes a while to settle down too, eg. months.

So its semi useful for letting you tweak your heating settings between, I can afford it but its not very warm, to I can’t afford it and its quite warm !

A barmy 12c here during the day, and 9c at night, so heating is very much still needed.
 

If you do put it in Freecycle or recycle please do the factory reset which you can do from a menu or quite often you can poke an unfolded paper clip (will these become extinct?) in the small hole usually at the back.

My second hand EV came with a whole load of information in the infotainment system including where the car was parked at night, names and numbers in the phone directory and places set up in the satnav that the garage didn't clear. Oops!

Just a heads up.

Please don't throw out your IHD! If you move out, the next resident will need it.

If you really don't want to use it, I recommend you just put it away in a cupboard. 

Hey ​@shetland,

Just wanted to add this really helpful webpage: https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/in-home-display-troubleshooting

It’s important to remember that while the IHD is a helpful tool (provided it’s working as it should), you’re billed based on the smart meter readings. So if the IHD is showing innacurate information, this won’t necessarily affect your bills provided your smart meter is sending us readings.