Power Move - New challenge information and changes to Power Move

This is correct. The Ofgem Price Cap limits the maximum Unit Rate/Standing Charges only. Suppliers can, of course, rebalance the two at their discretion as long as their alternative rates balance out to be about the same as the price cap.

However, it’s not one cap for the entire country - it’s one cap for each region. And yes, if you use more you will pay more. Likewise, if you use less (like I do) then you will pay less.

First of all I will declare that I’m one of the forum volunteers on here but I’m also with Octopus with their Agile tariff which may seem strange but OVO say a volunteer is a volunteer and that’s that. Up to now I’ve decided not to get involved in the, let’s say, ‘closely worded’ discussions going on and I’ve decided just to let these sink in to get a feeling for what is happening here.

I think the best way to describe how I feel about this is, that given the constraints on the funding for this (i.e. it basically doesn’t have any funding – if I’ve got that right), it seems to be the best way of doing this. However, as someone who could be enticed back into the OVO fold I have to make a judgement on whether Agile is better or one on the tariffs that OVO are offering with a discount from the PM Rewards. Now, it’s a strange thing to compare a tariff for which I have no idea how much it will cost me in the future (Agile) with a tariff with a pretty well defined cost but unknown PM Rewards because it is now down to chance. Take a step over to Premium Bonds where the pay-outs are equally random.

The more Bonds you have the greater the potential pay-outs. The thing we have with PBs though is, given a sufficiently large holding, the annual pay out is about 4%. For the rewards from OVO, the likely returns from PM have not yet been published, if indeed it would be possible to do given that there may be restrictions in the relevant betting and gaming laws if they apply.

So, I would have to make a decision between Agile where I can’t work out my future costs** or go with an OVO tariff for cost certainty but be completely unable to work out what the PM Reward is likely to be on average as there is no data. On top of that, unlike the Premium Bond situation, I have no idea if the points I would get each month would constitute a ‘sufficiently large holding’ to ensure that the rewards would even out to an average percentage. Thus avoiding the situation, which I’ve seen mentioned previously, where I could do everything right for every monthly challenge but still end up with nothing to show for it at the end of the year.

As a summary, for me it would be too many unknowns to go for an OVO tariff with PM Rewards to offset the cost. And this is comparing it to a tariff where I can’t calculate the future cost but it’s highly likely to be cheaper.

I will also declare that I have been party to early details on this but the very wide, interesting and thought provoking comments in this thread have highlighted some of the black holes which I didn’t even know were missing. I’m not saying this scheme will not succeed but at the moment it just seems to be lacking detail on how it would work out in practice for individuals.

Peter

** They are highly likely to be lower than an SVR or a typical Fixed Price contract. This is because the timeslots where I charge my car midnight to 6am is almost never as high as the SVR and often much lower

Can you confirm if £10 is on offer for 2% 

I will certainly try to reach that if so?

Initially not impressed with the changes but will try for a month, especially as it is only 2 hours. Hoping for confirmation of the 2% £10 reward that will help too.

Hi ​@Deanna Troi 

Yes, for February and March there is a £10 credit if you attain below 2% peak usage.

See the Power Move Terms and Conditions - section 4 "Prizes, Prize Draw and Power Move Credit" #4.4

https://www.ovoenergy.com/power-move-terms

£10 Energy Credit

4.4 Until 31st May 2025, any customer who has peak usage of less than 2.00% (1.99% or below) will also receive £10 energy bill credit, as well as their prize draw entries.

I’ll probably try for it, with there only being the 2-hours now counted as peak then it might just be reachable for me.

I think the £10 reward will also be available one final time in April and May too if memory serves. If you trigger it for those two months, it should come through but after that it’ll be turned off.

Just as an excercise and indication I went back through my PM spreadsheets and recalculated for the last few months with the peak hours as being 5-7.

That brought the percentages for those months down from between 5.5%-6.5% to between 3.5% and 4%.

Fair enough I haven't really been trying that hard recently, boiling the odd kettle and even cooking the odd fish and chips during peak, so a bit more care will be needed if I'm to bring that down below 2%.
I should/may be able to do it, but for a light user like myself there isn't a lot of non-background peak use left to move now.

Another thing I haven’t seen anyone mention, is that the £2000 top prize, is actually maximum £2000. So if you’re a low user, the way I’m reading it, it will be significantly less, depending on your actual annual usage. I might be wrong, the information given on this point doesn’t make it absolutely clear in my opinion. 

Yes the information is a bit vague about if you use less than £2k isn’t it?

I’d expect that it will be a straight £2k, paid as a monthly credit - if only because that’s much easier to do - but I’ll ask the Power Move team if they can clairfy that point.

​@ima and others interested.

The PM team have confirmed that the prize is a flat total of £2,000 credit against your usage.

Whether you actually use more or less than £2k in a year it makes no difference - the prize is £2k credit however long that £2k lasts you.

(It just sounds better saying “1-year Free”).

They do agree that it could be clearer in the T&Cs.

Many thanks for the clarification!

It also looks like the prizes could change over time. They could remain as cash, they could be free stuff… Who knows… Could be anything really. I’m certainly curious as to what might come later.

I am not sure whether the £1.6m paid out for Power move is verified but if we assume this to be true for now and we look at the profit stats for OVO (quick google search using AI see below). Ovo has been consistently making a decent profit over the years apart from 2022 when prices exploded. I imagine a lot of people were on fixed tarriffs then that caused many smaller suppliers to go under and hence the loss in 2022 for OVO as well. I also imagine that is why our standing charges have quadrupled to make up for these past losses. Because of course OFGEM don’t actually show us what exactly makes up the price cap they set.

Whilst the profit number isn’t yet available for 2024, If we take £1.6m paid out for PM from 2023 profit of £817m this is just under 0.2% of the profit made. Not really a hardship for the small number of billionaires / corporates that own the company.

I always considered Power Move as both a way of reducing stress on the grid in turn helping the environment + Rewarding Ovo customers for being with them, by sharing a tiny amount of their profit. (Not a get rich quick scheme!)

Many of us are struggling with paying bills these days and we don’t all qualify as vulnerable. This small token of money just helps each month.

As I said before I am a conscientious low energy user and my combined gas/electric monthly bills are between £35 in summer and £70 in winter. I will continue to use my heavy appliances outside the peak times for environmental reasons but will be shopping around when my fixed tarriff ends.

AI Overview

OVO Energy is a UK-based energy supplier that provides electricity and gas to its customers. It became one of the Big Six energy suppliers in the UK in 2020. 

OVO Energy's annual profit has increased over the years, with a profit of £817 million in 2023. This compares to a loss of £1.2 billion in 2022. 

• In 2013, OVO Energy's gross profit was £18.5 million. 

• In 2017, OVO Energy's gross profit was around £125 million. 

• In 2022, OVO Energy generated over £5 billion in revenue. 

• In 2023, OVO Energy posted a profit of £817 million. 

Just worth remembering that Revenue != Profit and Gross Profit != Net Profit. It’s ultimately only the Net Profit that counts if you want to calculate how much a company actually made after it paid the taxman and all the other bills off.

It appears that the tool you used may have hallucinated (suggesting an older ChatGPT model) and served up incorrect information. That’s all I wish to mention here.

Don’t wanna dig too deep into this, but fixed rate tariffs are arguably slightly more profitable because the supplier can lock in the upstream rates for the entire contract period too, which makes their own costs more predictable. IIRC the SoLR stuff from 2021/22 will drop off of Standing Charges sooner or later if it hasn’t already.

Power Move rewards have always been intended more as an incentive to take part than anything else. Ultimately, it does seem as if many folks won’t be motivated to take part in basically anything that challenges them unless the possibility of winning/earning money is involved - it’s well researched stuff and is arguably the sole reason for the monetary rewards existing in the first place. Gamification is a powerful tool when used in the right way, you’d be surprised just how powerful it is.

FWIW tons of folks went mad when the National Lottery increased the balls in the lottery draw machines from 49 → 59 because it massively reduced the chances of winning. Still, chucking the extra 10 balls into their fancy washing machines doesn’t stop millions of people playing it every week!

This comment was edited because I typo’d !+ rather than the intended != which has been fixed.

Note:  it is gross profit NOT gross revenue.

I am well aware of the difference between gross and net profit. Gross profit is after all operating costs, and net profit after tax.

Reduing the gross profit down to (oh no) just £815.4m after making payments for power move, is NOT going to force OVO into a loss situation. It just slightly reduces the Corporation Tax bill to HMRC!

Better back in the working people’s pockets than give to the government who manage to waste it.

And at the same time encouraging more people to participate in PM helping the environmental AND feel happier to be with OVO.

I know you are a volunteer but it feels like you are working for the marketing department of OVO.

I’m qualified in IT, not Marketing. I couldn’t market a sausage if I tried.

With that in mind, the National Lottery was originally created by the then Government at the time as a way to fund the construction of the Millennium Dome but of course, they kinda hid that under the carpet a bit (and some would say that millions of pounds were wasted as a result of building said dome but hey, free money if you won!). Despite the wastage, it absolutely didn’t stop over half the country entering the first draw!

For me though, I kinda like freshening things up from time to time. If things stay the same, they eventually get boring.

While I do agree that stuff like Power Move absolutely should be supporting those who play the game, you also have to balance it out so it’s not a financial vampire for anyone involved either.

And with that, I wish you goodnight

just a little more clarification.

I just looked up Ovo’s 2023 accounts filed to Companies House (so as not to rely on AI, which was not accurate!)

Ovo’s Profit before tax to year ended 31st December 2023 was £1,061million.

Profit after tax was £810m.

Anyone still feel sorry for the owners of Ovo paying out £1.6m to their customers, who are trying to do the right thing by the enviroment?

Some further thoughts on this…

P-M-Flex offered me £1.75 for every kWh I shifted tonight at 5-6pm. The issue with this is that my data shows that I’m a low user, so I have nothing to shift. 

£1.75/kWh sounds better than the £2/month lottery, so my new method is to, for want of a better word, hammer the use during peak hours where P-M-Flex is likely to occur, therefore allowing myself to cut back when an event is offered and obtain the payment, along with the currently offered £3 for meeting 50% of the targets. (interested to see how my personal P-M-Flex offers change, if they do)

If OVO don’t/won’t place enough importance on the P-M trial, I won’t place enough importance on their objectives. I’m sort of proud that I had the meter spinning away at 7kWs earlier when it normally runs at 100th of that. Also disappointed in myself, but its part of the social experiment OVO are playing, similar to how people were using *more* overall energy to help bring down their use during the PM windows. 

Please don’t get me wrong, I am extremely environmentally conscious. I have invested in solar and I work in the building maintenance industry monitoring the efficiency on some of the largest buildings in London, but I know when companies are taking the wee and when to play the game.

Its not the money either, its the wider principle. My annual bill (exc. standing charge) was £620 for 1800kWh of electricity and 2700kWh of gas. I want to play my part and this is my way of showing that this approach isn’t washing with the users.  

Why have OVO changed the Power Move so badly for their loyal customers? It's not worth wasting your time and efforts on anymore. Terrible terrible news for the us. Corporate greed in action!

I can’t even take part this year, because I don’t use apps on my Smartphone!!!   Last year, Power Move and more useful to me Power Move Plus worked fine on a laptop; but this year OVO has insisted that we use an app.   I wonder why???

Good evening ​@MGSteve ​@AaD ,

Please note that discussion of this matter is taking place exclusively in the following thread:

• Power Move - New challenge information and changes to Power Move News

I will arrange to have your comments moved over - please continue the discussion there to keep things together.

Thank you

You don't use apps or a smart phone???? I'm no geek but really, get a grip!

I’m not a luddite!!  I was an IT professional, and I understand how laptops work.  I have a perfectly good modern laptop, with up to date WIndows 11, and virus checker.  I bought my first Smartphone a few years ago for just mobile calls and texts, on a old PAYG 02 contract, that costs me about £1 a month.  It’s operating system is no longer being updated, and I suspect it’s much too small to load a virus checker on, so I won’t be using it for any personal data.  It does work on WIFI, but I’ve turned off the mobile data, both for security and cost.

So, for security reasons (and cost) I want to carry on just using my laptop; why do I have to change??

Ha ha ha. I too am an ex techie and you are definitely a luddite! Laptops are history use apps as a tool, not a master and you'll be fine

Is the operating system and virus checker on your Smartphone both up to date???  And how much did it cost???  My Smartphone cost me less than £150, and, as I said, only costs me about £1 a month to use.