A fantastic topic with all the information we could need (probably), nice one @mattwillhill.

Let’s see if we can make some solar PV members aware of this topic. I’m sure some of them have previously discussed how their panels were connected to the property. 

@sylm_2000 I forgot that you had solar! Also we have a former electrician knocking about who has solar PV in the form of @PeterR1947. @dnshorto did extensive research in how to use storage with their solar array. Are you able to advise how these eventually connect to the consumer unit and how Matt can track generation and export to work out why imports haven’t dropped?

Hi - do you know how much you’re exporting? Your installer is correct, Smart meters can/should work out which way the current is flowing and calculate accordingly. It could be that you’re not consuming the power when it’s available so it’s being sent to the grid, then when the sun goes down, you’re using the oven (or the likes) which is keeping your grid usage the same as before. 

Have you tried this:
 

Honeywell Elster AS300P (SMETS1)

To get an export reading from this smart meter:

1. Press and hold the grey middle button until the main menu loads up
2. ‘General’ should appear on-screen – press and hold the middle button again to select this option
3. ‘Time & Date’ should be visible – now scroll with the bottom button until you see ‘TOU Registers’
4. Press and hold the middle button once more will hovering over ‘TOU Registers’ and you should now see ‘Cum. Exp.’ with a value underneath it.

Our usage is interesting in that we sometime, or regularly on a sunny day, produce more kWh than we use but because our usage is in the morning and evening a huge amount of that produced kWh is going into grid so we still end up buying from the grid.  Greater battery backup seems to be the way forward (I think)

I have to say that every solar PV installation I have seen is connected from the inverter through a breaker switch (sometimes one in the loft and one downstairs) to the generation meter and then either through an existing MCB on the consumer unit or on an MCB on a  separately installed CU which is then connected in the same way as the existing CU, i.e. on the CU side of the house.

I have searched for standards regarding PV installations and there is an IET standard but not available on line;I feel uncomfortable about PV connected directly to the incoming supply but can’t say it’s definitely wrong

I agree with @PeterR1947 . Your solar output should go into a CU then into the meter (option A in your diagram). It looks like yours has been wired up to allow current from the solar CU to the grid without going through the meter.

Everything up to and including the meter belongs to the electricity company so if your electrician has fitted the connector (marked Join in your photo) then they've messed up big time. You should have one pair of unbroken cables from the fuse to the meter. Everything else should be on the house side of the meter.

As with everything involving cables, pipes and anything that goes bang, it’s best to combine first hand experience with getting a professional in to view things first hand. In this case @mattwillhill, a qualified electrician. 

Keep us updated please! 

@mattwillhill  There is no way that meter will measure export as the PV is not connected through it.  If the PV was connected as every other one I have seen, i.e. though the consumer unit, your Elster meter would be able to measure the export.

All meters are clever enough to sense which direction current is flowing through them.  With non-smart meters, if the very old variety the spinning wheel would go backwards, the electronic ones would display “RED” (Reverse Electricity Generated).

A Smart meter is smart!  if you are exporting to the grid, this is sensed and measured as export which you now know how to read and when you are not exporting the meter measures the consumption.  When you are generating but less than the house is using, the meter will simply show the reduced rate so your monthly PV generation will reduce the consumption you are seeing at present.  On thinking further about what I said earlier, I don’t think a PV installer is allowed to connect directly to an incoming supply, only your DNO is allowed to make these connections, perhaps @Transparent  can confirm that

No problem. Ask a solar electrician (these guys are good: https://empowerenergy.co.uk) for a quote to investigate and fix the issue. It should be free as they’re just quoting and should be able to provide that via pictures. Send that to your original installer and insist on a fix within 10 days. They say no, you’ll still need to get it done. Then after biting your lip/tongue, go to citizens advice and they’ll tell you what the correct process is to a) get your money refunded and b) complain against their licence.

just for the sake of it, you may want them to do a quick overall inspection just to be on the safe side 

My method would a) discover the nature of the issue (for free), b) give time for the original installer to respond and correct (10 days is fair) c) fix the issue one way or another d) get a fair outcome and protect others overall if they need to be reported (if needs be). Then my final suggestion, about getting a quick look over, ensures against any possible fire or panel breakaway hazard. Given that the connection looks to be before the meter (which is illegal) it makes great sense for all parties (including those in the future) to be protected. 
 

There’s no loyalty - just safety and doing what’s right by everyone.

if they can’t do it, they can’t do it.

Ps… sorry Tim :)

Graham110011

Thanks for your continued pondering. When you say discover the nature of the issue (for free) you mean by getting a quote from empower energy? :) 

I’m sure they would be happy to identify and quote, yes. Or from anyone that’s considered a qualified third party. It’s more about getting some “other” company to take responsibility (sign off) on the work (confirm correct or pull your fuse) as it currently stands. A company that has no connection to the original company. You can use the one I suggested - they installed my system which charges my car and covers my current daily usage - or any other “regulated” company. 
 

I wish you the very best - but when it’s potentially below the meter, it’s not a tech forum issue involving stats, it’s about legality and safety. 
 

again- best of luck
 

UPDATE as of 06 April 2022

I’d like to thank all those who contributed to this thread.

As many of us suspected the installer eventually admitted they had wired it incorrectly and changed it as we had all thought, finally everything fell in to place. 

Here is the rewired Elster meter. Its a shame there are NOT standard referal drawings for meters but i guess if the paid professionals get it wrong the consumer does not have a chance! 

Glad to hear you managed to get the solar installers back to correct the wiring there, @mattwillhill.

Important point about making this info more accessible too - but hopefully this thread might go some way to help.

On that note, how are you getting on with the solar installation generally? Any top-tips you’d recommend to others considering getting some solar panels installed? We’d love to hear them over here:
 

Hello, the above wiring method has been done to us, but with another export meter fitted before the (Solar Supply MCB), After it was all switched on I was expecting our smart display to show lower usage. But it didn’t happen, so I then had a look at how we had been wired up.

I told the electrician that this is surely wrong as the generated solar goes straight out to the grid (Via another mystery smart meter) and we get charged for using our own solar! He said he had been told to do it this way.

We are using the Nottingham City Council Carbon Neutral 2028 scheme. and so had them installed for free. We did have to pay towards the other property we own as we do not live there(rented) and i’m now thinking we’ve been done. There was no mention of this method of install in any documentation send to us or in fact any available I can find online.

Particularly interesting to hear that breaking the line from the Fuse to the Meter is very bad.

I’m not an electrician but understand the basics.

Hey @NottinghamSolar,

Sorry for the issues you’ve been having.

I have taken a look at the Nottingham City Council Carbon Neutral 2028 scheme website and can’t find any more information as to how the Solar system they install works. I’d advise contacting them directly to try and find more information. @mattwillhill any thoughts on the suggestion that it’s meant to be set up that way? I’m sure @ArundaleP  and @PeterR1947  wouldn’t be happy to accept that…

Keep us posted with how you get on! 

As I understand it nobody (other than your supplier or DNO) is authorised to disturb anything (and certainly not make any connections) on the grid side of the meter. 

All connections Solar or otherwise should be on the property side of the meter.

I doubt very much anyone in Notts City Council Carbon scheme understand or have an OEM manual with a wiring diagram unless their City Engineers (Building Services Electrical) have been involved. Most trust that the installer configs the final cabling up based on each variable house set up. 

I would advise that your first port of call should be to photograph & draw a schematic of how it is wired. Assess the meter to see if any energy has been exported. (Do you know how to find the export reading?) Report the system back to the City Council with your evidence and advise them that the installer has wired the set up incorrectly.

No installer should touch the grid side of a meter - they don’t need to anyway. The solar side should be directly wired on to your consumer unit. Please refer my schematic in my post. No export units on the meter readings is an immediate red flag, especially given the summer we have just had.  If its not exporting its likely wired incorrectly. 
 

If you would like further input it would be helpful if we could see a photograph with a schematic to assist. Also tell us what type of grid meter you have.  Good luck & all the best. 

Hello, Thank you for the info.

I have managed to access the import meter and it says “Total Act Export 00000 kWh”

The export meter that comes from the solar/inverter says “00027.03” kWh

Here is a photo of the wiring.

Schematics

What we signed for..

Schematics

How it has been wired.

If you Right click and open image in new tab,  then left click the image it opens fully.

What you signed for looks okay, what you have is wrong.
It also looks like they have used smaller tails between the Henley block and the original meter (could be wrong but they look different in the photo). 

I would be tempted to contact the council surveyors department, they usually have their own electrical engineering team.

good luck 

It’s the same error as was mine.
Fundamentally the on- site installer fails to understand what he has to achieve and/or is confused].

Your PV generation meter is telling you that you have flow and positive solar power but it cannot be read by your “grid (import) meter” because it is being flowed through it like it’s part of the import - like a double billing! 

Obviously having confirmed it here for reassurance simply collate this evidence and write to both the installer and the most suitable body from Council who appoints the installer it’s not clear who this is] asking for them to amend the wiring and compensate you for the lost and added PV Power.  I would of course highlight and impress upon them that this is a matter of urgency with high energy bills and that the amount of compensation is escalating by the day! 

It goes without saying, don’t get a third party involved or attempt and corrective remedial wiring yourself.  Good luck. 

Hey @NottinghamSolar,

I knew our community members would have some top tip advice here! 

I think @ArundaleP and @mattwillhill are spot on here. 

Keep us posted with how you get, this could help customers with similar issues in the future. 

Hello, Thank you for all the help with this. have just been on the phone with the guy who tells the electrician what to do and he says the wiring we’ve had done is correct.

He said he’s had a lot of people asking the same questions.

He said that the supplier would deduct money off our bill with some tariff.

I then asked if we would be payed back the same amount we pay for each unit of electricity and he did sound like he said yes , but very feint.I asked him again to clarify and then he said no.

So we will be paid via the Export meter but not the same rate that we pay for it on the import meter. This is ridiculous and goes against the wiring schematic that we signed this offer on.

I’m going to have to have a lie down as i’m rather agitated by this I can’t believe that they think this is right.

I will be contacting the council as you asked, but I can only guess they are in on this utterly wrong installation method.

Thanks again.