Hello, I have a very old imperial meter made by Parkinson Cowan (Ser/ No S512290) that works in ft2. Would someone kindly help with the conversion to kwh please. I also would like to know if it measures in ft2 or 100ft2. This is an image, many thanks.
Best answer by BPLightlog
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To be fair, these ancient relics are slowly dying out as they all come to the end of service life and hit recertifications. So this problem will eventually go away naturally once the final Imperial Meter gets MEX’d out.
These young folk like Li’l Timmy over there probably won’t have ever seen them! So it makes sense they don’t know how those meters work.
Thanks again for your help with this. Imperial to metric can be a nightmare especially when squared or cubed. I always suggest to people to think of it as a square balloon or a large sugar cube (a little condescending but it seems to work for some). There are 35.315 cubic feet in a cubic metre, remember it is ‘3D’ not flat.
My whole point has been two fold. 1) Is the meter being read correctly, is it reporting cubic feet or 100’s cubit feet ? and 2) Is it measuring accurately.
I suspect that when the meter is checked back at the lab, it will be found ‘to be within tolerances’. I have had my boiler and the whole gas system in the house properly checked twice and the modern condensing boiler is absolutely spot on as the manufacturer recommends. There is absolutely no loss of pressure anywhere in the house pipework from the meter onward, the heating runs for 6 hours a day and the stats are set at 19 or 20 degrees so I suspect that no one will accept responsibility despite the fact that it is impossible for a small three bed semi to burn the volume of gas that the meter is reporting.
So we shall see when I get the test report back.
I will keep you posted.
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I believe the tolerances are +/-2% (but there are specifications for mechanical and digital) .. hopefully they will find a reason.
Hello BPLightlog, thanks for your help.
Re ’Just one thing .. 35.315 is the factor for cubic metres to cubic feet .. not the other way around’. It’s the same thing, having a factor or multiple is the same thing as fitting ft cube boxes into metre cubed boxes or unpacking feet cubed boxes from metre cubed boxes, it’s just a different way of expressing it. I didn't mean metres into feet although multiplying number of metres by 35.315 will give the number of feet 3. Apologies if I was confusing.
I do agree about a long and protracted way of pricing anything, could only happen in the U.K.
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Hello BPLightlog, thanks for your help.
Re ’Just one thing .. 35.315 is the factor for cubic metres to cubic feet .. not the other way around’. It’s the same thing, having a factor or multiple is the same thing as fitting ft cube boxes into metre cubed boxes or unpacking feet cubed boxes from metre cubed boxes, it’s just a different way of expressing it. I didn't mean metres into feet although multiplying number of metres by 35.315 will give the number of feet 3. Apologies if I was confusing.
I do agree about a long and protracted way of pricing anything, could only happen in the U.K.
Yes sorry, I re-read your post and saw that I’d mistaken what you meant. I’ve always thought that our gas system was confusing
no apology necessary, I confuse myself sometimes !
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I have just checked last years readings. From 23/2/21 to 24/12/22 the readings were 3241 - 4758. A total of 1517. So using the above formula,
1517 x 2.83 x 1.02264 x 40 / 3.6 = 48,781 kwh per year.
But further, the heating was running for a calculated 2200 hours over that time (approximately) which is 22 kw’s per hour.
Something is really off there !
You typed 23/2/21 to 24/12/22?
That is 669 days.
Did you mean to type that?
Do you know the kW rating of your gas boiler?
Thank you, no, I meant 23/2/22 to 24/12/22 - 304 days. Should also have been 48.781 kwhs over those 304 days. Heating on for only average of 5 -7 hours a day with stats down at 19 - 20 degrees. fully serviced modern condensing combi boiler. Sorry, I don’t know the kwh boiler rating.
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Thank you, no, I meant 23/2/22 to 24/12/22 - 304 days. Should also have been 48.781 kwhs over those 304 days. Heating on for only average of 5 -7 hours a day with stats down at 19 - 20 degrees. fully serviced modern condensing combi boiler. Sorry, I don’t know the kwh boiler rating.
Good to know. I did wonder about the dates.
I agree it is a good idea to get the meter checked out.
Hopefully they will swap it for a smart meter so you can get a reading every 30min to be able to better diagnose any different issues in the future.
Has it been this high for many years?
Hi Jeffus, yes, I think so but up until recently the bills were being managed by another. I just paid them !
When I add the readings into Excel it shows out immediately.
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Hi Jeffus, yes, I think so but up until recently the bills were being managed by another. I just paid them !
When I add the readings into Excel it shows out immediately.
I assume there is no hot water tank as you say it is a combi boiler.
That’s correct, no hot cylinder. There’s just me living there in a recently completely renovated 3 bed semi. I work 5 days and have the boiler settings all at optimum, use a dishwasher usually 2 or 3 times a week. Heating is on 6 hrs / day with the stats set low.
An identical house next door, in the last 3 months with heating running 14 hrs/day 7 days/week used 6999kwh. Apparently I used 8500kwh for the same period in 1/3 the hours.
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That’s correct, no hot cylinder. There’s just me living there in a recently completely renovated 3 bed semi. I work 5 days and have the boiler settings all at optimum, use a dishwasher usually 2 or 3 times a week. Heating is on 6 hrs / day with the stats set low.
An identical house next door, in the last 3 months with heating running 14 hrs/day 7 days/week used 6999kwh. Apparently I used 8500kwh for the same period in 1/3 the hours.
That is one of the strange things i see was mentioned in another post.
8500 kWh over 3 months in winter doesn't equate to 48000 over a year.
I wonder why you are seeing that anomaly. I assume you have had the gas boiler for several years?
The dishwasher is likely cold fill i suspect.
+5
One other thought just reading the thread again
Hi . I also have an imperial gas meter and have been attempting to double check my gas calculations. I have a question regarding the calorific value to use in the calculation formula. I used the web link on my bill to find the calorific value report in order to obtain a value to do my sums. However, as the calorific values change on a daily basis then I have 2 questions to ask: Is OVO using the value for the South East or Southern to work out my bill? I live in Chichester (West Sussex). And what date is it using to get the calorific value? My meter readings are due on the 19th day of each month so is that the date I should be using?
Please advise because if you don’t know the region or the date for the calorific value then you get different answers when you do the calculation.
+5
Hi . I also have an imperial gas meter and have been attempting to double check my gas calculations. I have a question regarding the calorific value to use in the calculation formula. I used the web link on my bill to find the calorific value report in order to obtain a value to do my sums. However, as the calorific values change on a daily basis then I have 2 questions to ask: Is OVO using the value for the South East or Southern to work out my bill? I live in Chichester (West Sussex). And what date is it using to get the calorific value? My meter readings are due on the 19th day of each month so is that the date I should be using?
Please advise because if you don’t know the region or the date for the calorific value then you get different answers when you do the calculation.
Hi
Hi. Many thanks for that. I have just emailed the National Grid to seek clarification on the region that West Sussex falls into. I have also found an interesting document online from Ofgem that suggests that energy suppliers are provided with what is an average of all the daily calorific values for them to use for billing purposes (see link)
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2014/08/supplier_guidance_on_cv_calculation.pdf
So I am supposing that OVO should be able to tell me exactly what calorific figure they’ve used to calculate my bill because its probably entered into the computer system they use to generate bills.. Perhaps it would be handy for them to include the specific calorific value on a bill then customers would have all the relevant data to hand.
+5
Hi. Many thanks for that. I have just emailed the National Grid to seek clarification on the region that West Sussex falls into. I have also found an interesting document online from Ofgem that suggests that energy suppliers are provided with what is an average of all the daily calorific values for them to use for billing purposes (see link)
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2014/08/supplier_guidance_on_cv_calculation.pdf
So I am supposing that OVO should be able to tell me exactly what calorific figure they’ve used to calculate my bill because its probably entered into the computer system they use to generate bills.. Perhaps it would be handy for them to include the specific calorific value on a bill then customers would have all the relevant data to hand.
That’s an old document and there have been a number of consultations since then. As far as I’m aware (I’m not an expert - just another customer) the daily values are indeed used. This has been a topic over a number of months here and elsewhere. This is a later document which might help https://www.gasgovernance.co.uk/sites/default/files/ggf/page/2020-06/8%20OAD%20Section%20F%20-%20Determination%20of%20Calorific%20Value.pdf
Okay so for everyone’s info I emailed National Grid and they’ve confirmed that SGN are the gas distributors covering West Sussex are and that I come under the Local Distribution Zone area SO which I’m assuming means Southern. They’ve directed me to this link https://mip-prd-web.azurewebsites.net/DataItemExplorer and if you look under Calorific Values and search for your LDZ zone then you can search for all the calorific values that fall with specific date ranges. I’ve now reached out to SGN to find out more info on how to use the data shown in this report in order to search for the calorific value that may have been used to calculation conversion to KWH on my bill. If nothing else, I’m certainly learning a lot about stuff I’d never even thought about before.
I have an obsolete Imperial Gas Meter which has 4 digits
My gas bill shows a 5 digit reading record
I’ve questioned this with my supplier as I believe my bills are very high compared to neighbors' usage
Supplier says 4 or 5 digit recordings make no difference
Can anyone clarify please?
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Hi
+5
Just another thought on this, if you’re looking at the kWh figure, this will be quite different having gone through a few calculations. It shows this on you bill
Thank you for your comments
It would seem my 4 digit meter has been recorded as 5 digit readings for billing and it’s not been with a 0 (zero) as the first digit.
I’m assured by my energy provider the problem is being investigated. but I have little faith that I won’t end up paying for their mistake.
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You should probably record the reading with a photo if you can showing the serial number as well. Send this to them and you could start a complaint as well
Can anyone please please please translate SSE/OVO gas prices into a price per imperial kilowatt?
It’d be really useful to have this pre and post ‘the price hike’.
When we moved to our current house in Oct 2020 we provided an initial reading in iKW and it’s caused no end of trouble.
We just want to know how much gas we’ve used in iKW and how much that gas cost at the time so we can compare what we should have paid them, with what we’ve actually paid them.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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