Once the novelty of watching the remote display has worn off (And it doesnt like to be to far from the meter!) You start to wonder WHO did this benefit?
The ONE benefit I thought i would get was accurate Direct debit amount settings! NO, you still get the OTT increases and over payments with an automated FORECAST that never reflects actual bills and seasons.
Plus… I couldnt have the Gas Smart meter which is WHY i wanted one in the first place since the Gas meter is in such an awkward place to read….. all down to DISTANCE that even my bluetooth keyboard and headphones could easily cover?!
I also had to waste my time and the Engineers a SECOND time as I was told OVO used the new RELAY transmitter to bridge the gap so i COULD have the Gas smart meter when HE told me no such relay is used by OVO?
So, the only benefit was for the Utility companies to do away with actual meter readers!?
What is the BENEFIT to the customer in getting a smart meter?
Best answer by Emmanuelle_OVO
Hey
Welcome to the OVO Online Community 🙂
I can see our community members have already given some helpful advice here, just wanted to add the following:
+4- Super User
To be fair the DD amount being set has nothing to do with the smart meter.
The meter just sends readings of how much energy you have used.
How the supplier uses those readings is all down to the supplier not the meter itself.
As for your gas meter, how far is it from your electricity meter?
When did the engineer come to look at the Alt-Han (bridging) solution?
There was a period last year where they were not being fitted due to a manufacturing fault, that has now been corrected and they can be fitted again. (Old ones were being replaced first, but I believe they are once again fitting new ones).
More info about Alt Han:
https://althanco.com/how-it-works/
PS. There are other consumer benefits to widespread smart metering, but they are less visible and more complicated to explain in a simple manner.
To be fair the DD amount being set has nothing to do with the smart meter.
The meter just sends readings of how much energy you have used.
How the supplier uses those readings is all down to the supplier not the meter itself.
As for your gas meter, how far is it from your electricity meter?
When did the engineer come to look at the Alt-Han (bridging) solution?
There was a period last year where they were not being fitted due to a manufacturing fault, that has now been corrected and they can be fitted again. (Old ones were being replaced first, but I believe they are once again fitting new ones).
More info about Alt Han:
https://althanco.com/how-it-works/
PS. There are other consumer benefits to widespread smart metering, but they are less visible and more complicated to explain in a simple manner.
The DD amount is set regarding the usage which is calculated from your reading and so has to do with your meter. The meter sends out an accurate reading every hour so OVO know EXACTLY the amount used and should charge/ take the exact amount which would in turn be just like the old way, you got a bill, you pay it.
That then WOULD be a benefit. If there are other benefits to the CUSTOMER then, WHAT its no good hiding them within some hidden or so called unexplainable way?
I dont personally know the distance from the electric meter the gas meter is as too many variables to consider plus i dont know the specification of the meter communication requirements or what type of frequencies they use. I then have walls and other possible signals in the air to consider. Only an engineer could physically calculate it.
I had a second booking since the operator said the bridging units were used. The Engineer contacted me on the day of installation to ask if I had moved my meter since the bridging units were not fitted… I said no and he cancelled.
I read up on the Bridging units at the time which is why i rearranged an appointment.
I would still like the gas one fitted as it saves me clambering over a wall and through brambles to read it! But not if the engineer will just cancel again.
I'm also with Octopus and have a smart meter, this allowed me to move to the electric tracker tariff for 2024, saved 30% on my electric for the year, cheapest daily rate was Christmas eve, 8p per unit. Tracker not as good this year but watching closely for a chance to move back.
Other suppliers will start to introduce smart tariffs based on the half hour readings, consumers will have more opportunities to find a smart tariff that suits their lifestyle and elec consumption times.
I'm also with Octopus and have a smart meter, this allowed me to move to the electric tracker tariff for 2024, saved 30% on my electric for the year, cheapest daily rate was Christmas eve, 8p per unit. Tracker not as good this year but watching closely for a chance to move back.
Other suppliers will start to introduce smart tariffs based on the half hour readings, consumers will have more opportunities to find a smart tariff that suits their lifestyle and elec consumption times.
a TRACKER tariff, at least that is somewhere towards benefiting the consumer and would entice people to get them…. now take that and have intelligent DD payments you would probably get MOST want a smart meter?
+4- Super User
The DD amount is set regarding the usage which is calculated from your reading and so has to do with your meter. The meter sends out an accurate reading every hour so OVO know EXACTLY the amount used and should charge/ take the exact amount which would in turn be just like the old way, you got a bill, you pay it.
You would think so wouldn’t you? But..
For one thing a smart meter does not ‘send out’ readings every hour.
It can be set to record every half-hours usage, but only ‘sends’ them to the data centre once a day. (Less if you have selected only weekly or monthly readings be sent).
The figures used to calculate your DD are based on those readings, but may not be the same as those actual readings, various reasons for that to do with the national data centres and Future Assessed Consumptions.
The supplier may then make other adjustments, depending on if your account is in credit or debit, and/or for other reasons such as OVO’s current policy of trying to get everyone to have 1-months credit on 31st March each year.
That then WOULD be a benefit. If there are other benefits to the CUSTOMER then, WHAT its no good hiding them within some hidden or so called unexplainable way?
Nobody is hiding them, but if you want an explanation of how smart metering is driving down prices by making the supply of energy and the cost of the distribution infrastructure less expensive then a forum is not the place and you need to look elsewhere.
A simple example might be that if smart metering means that we can reduce the need for excess generation capacity then we can save the cost of building new power stations, and that trickles through to your bills.
It can quickly get very technical and complicated but if you want to make a start understanding it then this may help: https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/does-a-smart-meter-save-money/
TBH though many people don’t want to get into those technicalities.
AFAIK Octupus are the only supply currently have a ToU tariff, their Tracker Tariff.
I dont personally know the distance from the electric meter the gas meter is as too many variables to consider plus i dont know the specification of the meter communication requirements or what type of frequencies they use. I then have walls and other possible signals in the air to consider. Only an engineer could physically calculate it.
It’s a Zigbee 2.4 kHz signal, similar to that used by IoT devices (Think ‘wifi’ doorbell/cameras, CH controls, any ‘smart’ fridge/washer/toothbrush/etc.etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee
No meter engineer is going to calculate signal strengths, plug it in and see if it works is what happens.
You didn’t say when the engineer told you that Alt Han couldn’t be fitted.
It may just have been when there was that product hold going on so he didn’t have anything to fit at that particular time but something might be possible now .
As for distance, just roughly will give us an indication.
Is it 5 meters, 10, 20, 50?
I'm also with Octopus and have a smart meter, this allowed me to move to the electric tracker tariff for 2024, saved 30% on my electric for the year, cheapest daily rate was Christmas eve, 8p per unit. Tracker not as good this year but watching closely for a chance to move back.
Other suppliers will start to introduce smart tariffs based on the half hour readings, consumers will have more opportunities to find a smart tariff that suits their lifestyle and elec consumption times.
a TRACKER tariff, at least that is somewhere towards benefiting the consumer and would entice people to get them…. now take that and have intelligent DD payments you would probably get MOST want a smart meter?
Some suppliers offer a variable direct debit, I just monitor my balance and monthly payments manually.
+4Hey
Welcome to the OVO Online Community 🙂
I can see our community members have already given some helpful advice here, just wanted to add the following:
The DD amount is set regarding the usage which is calculated from your reading and so has to do with your meter. The meter sends out an accurate reading every hour so OVO know EXACTLY the amount used and should charge/ take the exact amount which would in turn be just like the old way, you got a bill, you pay it.
You would think so wouldn’t you? But..
For one thing a smart meter does not ‘send out’ readings every hour.
It can be set to record every half-hours usage, but only ‘sends’ them to the data centre once a day. (Less if you have selected only weekly or monthly readings be sent).
The figures used to calculate your DD are based on those readings, but may not be the same as those actual readings, various reasons for that to do with the national data centres and Future Assessed Consumptions.
The supplier may then make other adjustments, depending on if your account is in credit or debit, and/or for other reasons such as OVO’s current policy of trying to get everyone to have 1-months credit on 31st March each year.
That then WOULD be a benefit. If there are other benefits to the CUSTOMER then, WHAT its no good hiding them within some hidden or so called unexplainable way?
Nobody is hiding them, but if you want an explanation of how smart metering is driving down prices by making the supply of energy and the cost of the distribution infrastructure less expensive then a forum is not the place and you need to look elsewhere.
A simple example might be that if smart metering means that we can reduce the need for excess generation capacity then we can save the cost of building new power stations, and that trickles through to your bills.
It can quickly get very technical and complicated but if you want to make a start understanding it then this may help: https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/does-a-smart-meter-save-money/
TBH though many people don’t want to get into those technicalities.
AFAIK Octupus are the only supply currently have a ToU tariff, their Tracker Tariff.
I dont personally know the distance from the electric meter the gas meter is as too many variables to consider plus i dont know the specification of the meter communication requirements or what type of frequencies they use. I then have walls and other possible signals in the air to consider. Only an engineer could physically calculate it.
It’s a Zigbee 2.4 kHz signal, similar to that used by IoT devices (Think ‘wifi’ doorbell/cameras, CH controls, any ‘smart’ fridge/washer/toothbrush/etc.etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee
No meter engineer is going to calculate signal strengths, plug it in and see if it works is what happens.
You didn’t say when the engineer told you that Alt Han couldn’t be fitted.
It may just have been when there was that product hold going on so he didn’t have anything to fit at that particular time but something might be possible now .
As for distance, just roughly will give us an indication.
Is it 5 meters, 10, 20, 50?
Thank you for a more in-depth explanation and appreciate it but most seems a little smoke and mirror in accordance with energy companies gumph so to speak. It not really an enticing one to WANT a smart meter?
I personally would be more inclined to accept it IF the crazy off the wall energy forecasting that alters your DD payments in the wrong direction was to stop and be tied to your actual reading, but that would lose the energy companies benefitting from having the extra cash?
driving down costs?? I really dont think it will and only increase them… I have not yet seen any costs go down even when they should have done.
Thank you for the information of the bridge connection frequency…. 2.4! Well thats not good then and prone to interference with local wifi? BUT if it is 2.4, that should reach half way down the road for me (like my Wifi can at 2.4!)
as for distance: I just done a rough laser measure from meter to outside window (6.2M) then as im on a 1st floor, the drop to the actual meter outside is 4.6M - a lot less line of sight BUT as its an old no cavity building with 1foot thick walls and a BRICK ceiling for them below me the drop-off in signal will be a lot. no line of sight. (but my 2.4Ghz wifi makes it no problem and its further away! - so their units must be …. naff or real low power since the unit attached to the gas meter will be on a battery?) - shame it cant bridge through my Mesh wifi?
I would need to try and hunt out the appointment date but i think it might be long gone and might be further back than I could guess (due to Covid)
Hey
Welcome to the OVO Online Community 🙂
I can see our community members have already given some helpful advice here, just wanted to add the following:
Some worrying statements in the first link!
charged more at peak times? I want to see charge less on off peak not for me to be charged that same for off-peak but a possibility of being charged MORE on peak! - the working could be seen this way?
will not affect my wifi? - the communication to and from the meter / remote is 2.4ghz…. so it WILL interfere!
Radiation? seriously? People asked that?
Hacking - ANYTHING electronic, especially with software, has the possibility of being hacked.
Meters going wrong? Its electronic...of course it could go wrong, even fail.
again, im seeing more smoke and mirrors?
Be a little more transparent and people wouldn't question obtaining a smart meter?
Offer more incentives with monitored on/off peak discounts, maybe even ask for more information to make sure your meters CAN communicate in the first place with the distance between them? ….. and why use 2.4??
+8- Super User
I’m analysing this thread at the moment and will respond later today.
However, I want to take some time to write my response carefully, please bear with me as this will take a while.
+4- Super User
There can be interference with other IoT devices using 2.4 gHz, but not usually with your routers 2.4 ghz wifi in general.
That’s because the Zigbe signal is weaker that a routers wifi signal, think more bluetooth strength.
When there is such interference it usually settles down as devices adjust which channels they are on, although sometimes you may need to intervene manually.
If you have a lot of IoT devices, and some are older, then the chances of interference happening get greater but still they usually sort themselves out.
You may find this thread of general interest regarding smart metering, among the other stuff there’s a section on wifi/Zigbee, interference, and channels.
Your setup doesn’t sound too unusual and I would expect a SMETS2 gas smart meter could be fitted at those ranges without the need for Alt Han, but as I say Alt Han may now be possible where it wasn’t before.
No promisses but if you try again for a gas smart meter there may be no problem connecting it this time.
My own first go at a replacement gas meter wouldn’t communicate with the coms. hub on top of the elctricity meter (only 2.5 metres and a breezeblock wall between them), the second go a number of months later was no problem and it’s been working perfectly since it was fitted.
The technology is getting better all the time.
Regarding the bumf put out about smart meters I think most people would agree that it’s over the top marketing, and like a lot of marketing it tends to be exaggerated.
Being honest it isn’t realy needed now other than as propaganda.
The fact is that smart meters are all that are manufactured these days, so when your current meter certification expires it will be replaced with a smart meter because there is nothing else.
Assuming that meters are replaced when they should be (by law meters are only certified for a set period and should then be replaced) then it should only be another few years until everyone has a smart meter anyway.
Whether that smart meter can sucessfully communicate with the Data Centre or not may be another question, there are always local factors that can block radio signals.
IHDs in blocks of flats is another ongoing issue that Alt Han co. are constantly working to improve. It doesn’t affect the meter sending data to the DCC, but the customer can be out of range for an IHD unless Alt Han is fitted.
However we are not far off the time when everyone will have smart meters, even if you still have to read it yourself and send the readings in.
Biggest mistake the supplier industry made was calling the new meters 'smart meters', had they just installed new generation meters with a comms unit attached much of the conspiracy theory paranoia could have been avoided.
+8- Super User
As an additional note gas meters cannot transmit their signal as far as a device that is powered from the mains or a rechargeable battery. A gas meter has a sealed-in primary cell battery that has to last 10+ years. It is not connected to the mains (nothing short of a disaster waiting to happen) and it’s not rechargeable. Consequently the transmitter output is very weak and cannot travel either over long distances or through intervening walls. The gas meter will probably hear every command from the smart meter and it will reply but the smart meter won’t hear it if it’s too far away or the environment is electrically noisy.
Peter
Doing a little more research regarding the smart meter I need for the gas. Its a shame that the electric meter COMS unit cant be the item thats remote and needing just a power connection since then you would be able to site that in between the two SMETS2 meters? But I think the Coms unit NEEDS to be hard wired to the electric meter with a ribbon?
Zig‑Bee devices on 2.4 GHz are capped at +10 dBm (10 mW) transmit power. Most smart‑meter HAN modules actually run at around +8 dBm to strike the balance between range and battery drain, giving a link budget adequate for a few metres through normal walls.
So, i will need a Alt HAN device - bit like a powerline extender BUT in my case and that im 1 floor up from the meter might still be too far from the gas meter at 4.6M to the nearest socket?
+8- Super User
When you talk about costs are you talking are you talking about the basic cost of electricity? If so SMART meters have very little to do with this althought the cost of these is shared by everyone whether you have a SMART meter or not. The main reason why electricity prices are high is mainly due to the Net Zero policies pursued by successive UK governments. Some people claim it’s the cost of gas but the whole of Europe pay similar gas prices to us and don’t have electricity prices as high as ours.
https://watt-logic.com/2025/05/19/new-report-the-true-affordability-of-net-zero/
Peter
There can be interference with other IoT devices using 2.4 gHz, but not usually with your routers 2.4 ghz wifi in general.
That’s because the Zigbe signal is weaker that a routers wifi signal, think more bluetooth strength.
When there is such interference it usually settles down as devices adjust which channels they are on, although sometimes you may need to intervene manually.
If you have a lot of IoT devices, and some are older, then the chances of interference happening get greater but still they usually sort themselves out.
You may find this thread of general interest regarding smart metering, among the other stuff there’s a section on wifi/Zigbee, interference, and channels.
Your setup doesn’t sound too unusual and I would expect a SMETS2 gas smart meter could be fitted at those ranges without the need for Alt Han, but as I say Alt Han may now be possible where it wasn’t before.
No promisses but if you try again for a gas smart meter there may be no problem connecting it this time.
My own first go at a replacement gas meter wouldn’t communicate with the coms. hub on top of the elctricity meter (only 2.5 metres and a breezeblock wall between them), the second go a number of months later was no problem and it’s been working perfectly since it was fitted.
The technology is getting better all the time.
Regarding the bumf put out about smart meters I think most people would agree that it’s over the top marketing, and like a lot of marketing it tends to be exaggerated.
Being honest it isn’t realy needed now other than as propaganda.
The fact is that smart meters are all that are manufactured these days, so when your current meter certification expires it will be replaced with a smart meter because there is nothing else.
Assuming that meters are replaced when they should be (by law meters are only certified for a set period and should then be replaced) then it should only be another few years until everyone has a smart meter anyway.
Whether that smart meter can sucessfully communicate with the Data Centre or not may be another question, there are always local factors that can block radio signals.
IHDs in blocks of flats is another ongoing issue that Alt Han co. are constantly working to improve. It doesn’t affect the meter sending data to the DCC, but the customer can be out of range for an IHD unless Alt Han is fitted.
However we are not far of the time when everyone will have smart meters, even if you still have to read it yourself and send the readings in.
I read that the Trio2 remote viewer i have uses the same 2.5Ghz and that if i place that in line with the window (6.5M) away it just about connects but an inch further it loses connection, my gas meter is another 4.5M down below that windows.
As im on the 1st floor and the Alt HAN device uses the powerline, it will still be nearly 5M away?
My place is poor even for wifi which is why i fitted MESH with LAN backhaul.
I just dont want another wasted engineer visit.
When you talk about costs are you talking are you talking about the basic cost of electricity? If so SMART meters have very little to do with this althought the cost of these is shared by everyone whether you have a SMART meter or not. The main reason why electricity prices are high is mainly due to the Net Zero policies pursued by successive UK governments. Some people claim it’s the cost of gas but the whole of Europe pay similar gas prices to us and don’t have electricity prices as high as ours.
https://watt-logic.com/2025/05/19/new-report-the-true-affordability-of-net-zero/
Peter
Yes. and I think due to all the crazy so called green ideas are pushing up the prices……. even the COST of rolling out the smart meters that already have proven to need replacing to get to SMETS2…. then there will be a better model again to replace that….. all costings added to the bills!
all this while a 40 year old analogue meter was quite happy and would still be running :(
As an additional note gas meters cannot transmit their signal as far as a device that is powered from the mains or a rechargeable battery. A gas meter has a sealed-in primary cell battery that has to last 10+ years. It is not connected to the mains (nothing short of a disaster waiting to happen) and it’s not rechargeable. Consequently the transmitter output is very weak and cannot travel either over long distances or through intervening walls. The gas meter will probably hear every command from the smart meter and it will reply but the smart meter won’t hear it if it’s too far away or the environment is electrically noisy.
Peter
Hi Peter, Sorry, im missing a lot of replies as a few have come in while im trying to also gather my own info on it all - i will combine all your replies and have a good read and compare with my finding :) Thank you for taking the time to reply :)
+7- Super User
I think the Coms unit NEEDS to be hard wired to the electric meter with a ribbon?
The usual arrangement uses the intimate interface, fixing the Communications Hub (CH) to the top of the electricity meter. In some cases, the CH may be displaced by up to 1.5m and connected to the meter via a flying lead. As far as I’ve been able to work out, the CH receives its data from meters via Zigbee. All that passes over the intimate connection or the flying lead is a 12V DC power supply, but there are also a couple of control signals. I don’t know if anyone’s put this to the test, but it would involve breaking at least one tamper seal to change the power supply.
I think the Coms unit NEEDS to be hard wired to the electric meter with a ribbon?
The usual arrangement uses the intimate interface, fixing the Communications Hub (CH) to the top of the electricity meter. In some cases, the CH may be displaced by up to 1.5m and connected to the meter via a flying lead. As far as I’ve been able to work out, the CH receives its data from meters via Zigbee. All that passes over the intimate connection or the flying lead is a 12V DC power supply, but there are also a couple of control signals. I don’t know if anyone’s put this to the test, but it would involve breaking at least one tamper seal to change the power supply.
Yes, the coms unit is attached to the top of the meter like its part of it and wondered if it could be remote but as you said...tamper proof and security might be why.
I got Chat to collate all the information it could find on the LANDIIS GYR+ E470 meter I have and the additional SKU1 Cellular coms unit (Toshiba) So i could study it a bit more.
I think the Coms unit NEEDS to be hard wired to the electric meter with a ribbon?
The usual arrangement uses the intimate interface, fixing the Communications Hub (CH) to the top of the electricity meter. In some cases, the CH may be displaced by up to 1.5m and connected to the meter via a flying lead. As far as I’ve been able to work out, the CH receives its data from meters via Zigbee. All that passes over the intimate connection or the flying lead is a 12V DC power supply, but there are also a couple of control signals. I don’t know if anyone’s put this to the test, but it would involve breaking at least one tamper seal to change the power supply.
Yes, the coms unit is attached to the top of the meter like its part of it and wondered if it could be remote but as you said...tamper proof and security might be why.
I got Chat to collate all the information it could find on the LANDIIS GYR+ E470 meter I have and the additional SKU1 Cellular coms unit (Toshiba) So i could study it a bit more.
Someone on here relocated the comms unit into their loft with the assistance of the meter engineer, the meter engineer had been at the property a few times and this was a final attempt to make connection, I'll see if I can find the post. Thinking again, it was the FL100 they extended into the loft.
Going back to the original post i made.
Unless the DD payment adjusted to the reading automatically sent then no benefit to the customer direct (ignore the carbon or green nonsense) I mean of a financial benefit to the customer?
For me personally, I wanted the GAS meter to be SMART due to its location for reading but to have that You have to have the electric meter SMART too so you get the COMS part attached.
The actual distance to the COMS unit is too far for the Gas smart meter to talk to it, and as we have established from this thread, the COMS can only be moved a small distance from the electric meter and would make no difference in getting any closer to the gas meter, in my instance.
The option of a relay from the Gas smart meter to the coms using STILL might not be enough if the Remote Viewer box is anything to go by (uses the same lo wifi?) it might JUST about catch the signal but could be intermittent.
If this is the case then I have NO use for smart meters… I STILL have to ARGUE with OVO to adjust my overpayment of direct debit amounts that get more greedy and random each year with some outrageous AI yearly prediction of use?! It never takes into account the weather/seasons and NEVER balances out (if i didn't argue to have the payments reduced)
I DONT need it to sit in THEIR account when I can quite happily setup my own saving account!
+8- Super User
As we’ve mentioned, tools like Flying Leads, Dual-Band Comms Hubs and Alt-HAN can make for almost unlimited range - especially with Alt-HAN.
This stuff uses ZigBee, not Wi-Fi. There’s a difference between them and that’s important.
As we’ve mentioned, tools like Flying Leads, Dual-Band Comms Hubs and Alt-HAN can make for almost unlimited range - especially with Alt-HAN.
This stuff uses ZigBee, not Wi-Fi. There’s a difference between them and that’s important.
I only said wifi as its on the same Ghz even though its low powered.
I have read the article on https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/alt-han
I still think it might be too far away from the Gas meter (Im on the 1st floor in an old no cavity triple glazed flat while the gas meter is on the ground floor. the extender will need to be plugged into the nearest plug socket on MY floor which still my be too far for the small range of the GAS meter transmitter to get to the extender?
+8- Super User
Alt-HAN uses a form of powerline networking between the host unit and the plug-in bridge. It has theoretically unlimited range between the two - the plug-in bridge goes in your property near the Gas Meter and/or IHD to broadcast the HAN so it reaches them both.
It’s explicitly designed for environments like yours - I’m 100% confident it would work.
As for the IHD? As long as it’s near either the Electric Meter OR the Alt-HAN Plug-In Bridge, it’ll get a connection and function as intended.
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