Please tell us which tariff you’re on - we can’t figure it out from the information you provided.

Superdeal

I see.

Since you’re on the legacy Superdeal tariff, it’s actually not going to affect anywhere near as many folks as your post initially seems to suggest - there’s a difference between “this’ll affect millions of folks across the UK” and “this only affects a handful of folks in very specific conditions”. Anyone on Economy 7 for example will not have three rates, so this change definitely won’t affect them - and there’s WAY more E7 than SD accounts on OVO’s books, that’s for sure.

It’s also worth noting that Superdeal is a massively outdated legacy tariff that’s no longer actively supported nor sold (and hasn’t been sold for some time) - you can only get Superdeal if you move into a property that already has it. Because it also depends on the RTS Service, you’ll need to replace the meter(s) you’ve currently got sooner rather than later anyway before the RTS Signal goes offline.

On top of that, you’re not allowed to send go juice to any kind of battery using the Heating Rate on Superdeal - it can only be used for storage heaters and immersion heaters. Everything else has to be wired up on the regular side of the setup.

I suspect the rates are like that because it’s all OVO can get right now - and it’s worth remembering that it’s not OVO raking in massive profits off of this. It’s the generators rather than the suppliers who get giant windfalls - OVO is not one of the former as they don’t have any generation capacity of their own.

Additionally, I’ve had confirmation that OVO isn’t required to support Superdeal - in both tariff and meter type - anymore, whether they do so or not going forwards is basically a decision that Ofgem has delegated to OVO so it’s ultimately a business decision that Ofgem won’t touch. I’ve actually had information that Ofgem wants to not just allow OVO to deprecate and sunset Superdeal, but they are also showing strong support for OVO to do so.

I think your best bet is to upgrade to a Smart Meter and switch the tariff over to something more appropriate for your use case. Normally, I don’t force people to do that if they don’t want to, but in the case of anyone with an RTS Meter, I’m afraid my hand is forced by external factors in that the RTS Service is shutting down anyway, which will likely break your meter when it does close. As such, this is the only solution I can offer you advice on because there really is nothing else.

As for the “overnight is always cheaper” thing? Sorry, not anymore. The grid is changing and what worked all those years ago no longer works now. This video by Tom Scott explains that really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0JDK_71yDg

There are many people using economy 7 and they will also be affected (to a lesser extent).

Our storage heating system was designed with the help of SSE using the Superdeal tariff - but it sounds as if we are going to be abandoned because there are relatively few people on that tariff. That provides me with no re-assurance.

Storage heating systems (and electric hot water systems) are much more effective if they have a boost during the afternoon.  Our system would not work nearly as well if operated on economy 7.

For the reasons above, we cannot switch to a smart meter (as these only provide 2 rates).

I have been advised that OVO are working on a replacement for RTS - but your comments cast significant doubt on this.

Why do smart meters not allow more than 2 rates and/or operate intelligently so that energy/heat can be stored in off-peak periods?

Why are you not promoting/supporting tariffs that encourage the use of (clean) electric heating?

I’m now even more unhappy.

This was shared with me a few weeks ago by an industry contact I talk to sometimes. They wish to remain anonymous.

We've had a solution in place to replace Superdeal and other RTS arrangements for a while with the 5 terminal meters. There is nothing in any licence requiring us to support a metering solution the customer wants, in fact Ofgem fully supports our desire to move customers to smart and offer them solutions to allow them to benefit from what Smart has to offer.

A customer can chose to not have the Smart meters we support and that is their choice, although it does mean they cannot have certain products.

You’re ultimately going to have to accept that you’ll no longer find tariffs with three rates in the style that Superdeal had. It might in fact be that OVO has something more modern that’ll give you a solution that works. You’ll just need to discuss that with them.

Personally, I kinda see this as an incentive to migrate off of Superdeal more than anything else. As time passes, I suspect the value of it will continue to be eroded to the point where it’s actually a terrible deal - assuming OVO doesn’t just completely pull the plug and kill the tariff entirely before that point.

For some use cases, it’s likely that a better deal than all this legacy RTS stuff already exists anyway. For others, OVO will probably figure something out.

@SteveUK Economy 10 might be your solution. It’s off peak for 5 hours overnight, 3 in the afternoon and 2 in the evening. Allegedly coming. I’ve got it now, as an SSE legacy.

Yes, Economy 10 would be great but my understanding is that it’s also a legacy tariff and that I’m not able to switch to it.  I assume it also relies on RTS so will suffer the same fate as Superdeal (unless they devise a replacement).  How are the rates changing for Economy 10?  Are the savings being reduced in a similar manner to those I outlined?

OVO appears to have Smart Economy 9 which is supported by the looks of things. It’s more or less the same as Economy 10 - you must have a Smart Meter to get this tariff, it’s not available at all without one. E10 MIGHT also continue to be supported if you migrate to a Smart Meter

You’d be best to talk to them - they’ll tell you all the options you can pick from.

Not RTS, I am on a Smart Meter. I had the Smart Meter installed a year ago by SSE. I don’t know if it an RTS meter before, as I have only just started to become a meter nerd , but I was able to keep my tariff and eventually migrate it to Ovo.

Yeah, it’s moving in the same regressive direction as yours, but not as egregiously. The OP price will go from 72% of the peak to 79%. Not great, agreed.

Yes, Smart Economy 9 sounds worth investigating.  Is there a link which provides details of all the tariffs available (which we can switch to) AND the current and new rates.  My OVO invoice says I’m on the best tariff (Superdeal) but I wonder if that is no longer correct.

If someone switches to a smart meter and, say, Economy 9, who pays for the re-wiring of the consumer units (and time switches?) required to ensure the storage heaters and immersion heater only come on during the cheap rate periods?

At the moment, the only link I have (sorry about this!) is https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/electric-heating/economy-9 . You’d need to talk to OVO to get more details.

As for your other question, OVO will arrange to remove any timeswitches that are connected to the existing meter at no charge, provided they’re ones that were supplied along with the meter - OVO won’t touch ones you bought yourself. They will also arrange safe disposal of them as well, again at no charge. Those timeswitches would serve no further useful purpose to you, so there’d be no reason to keep them.

If the meter or timeswitches were replaced independently of each other in the past by an engineer (such as if they broke), that’s fine - the job scope would still cover removing whatever is currently in place.

Given that Superdeal operates on a single meter, I can’t see it being a case of spaghetti wiring, so migrating to a Five-Terminal Smart Meter shouldn’t be too tricky for a suitably trained engineer to do. My guess is that it’d just be a case of swapping them out and making sure the meter tails are plugged into the correct terminals. The ones going to the timeswitches wouldn’t fit but that doesn’t matter anyway as any external timeswitch would be replaced by functionality within the meter itself.

IIRC the engineer would also move all the wiring over to the new meter and set it all up based on what needs to be controlled and what can just run 24/7. Anything beyond that however, may require a private electrician at your own cost - doing away with one of the consumer units and moving everything to just a single consumer unit is one such example of what OVO won’t do. Whatever work is done by the OVO engineer however, is included at no cost as long as it’s in-scope of the SMEX (Smart Meter EXchange) job.

OVO is able to discuss that with you before you book, so you know what to expect before anything is committed.

We do not have any time switches at present as all storage heaters (10 of them) plus immersion heater are switched on and off remotely by the RTS signal.

Are you saying that the smart meter would be able to control the power to the storage heaters so they are only active during the cheap rate periods or will they all require their own time switch?

Yup. The meter itself would control them, just like the RTS Signal does now with your current setup. That’s the easiest way to do it.

By the way @joanx , in case it helps there’s resources out there such as SmartMe, which is extremely helpful if you want to know more about smart meter stuff. You’re also welcome to PM any of the Forum Volunteers too (we don’t bite!) if you fancy just chatting to us about something. Sometimes, we might even reply back. :D

You can do that by going to our profiles and hit the message button from there. The only thing to note is that if someone needs support, we prefer to do that out in the open as it’s easier.

I’ve just been reading the conversation ‘Are Economy 10 tariffs available yet?’ and deeply alarmed that many other people are experiencing major problems and conflicting advice on tariffs.  Yikes!

Update: The previous meter was less than 2 years old, so obviously not RTS

Excuse my ignorance. I appreciate this will be difficult to be sure @Blastoise186 

So are the Superdeal meters typically 6 port meters? This is a superdeal meter with 6 ports and all the clocks are within the meter in this example, I assume like @SteveUK. 3 separate circuits for storage heaters, water, everything else.

So would he have the hot water and storage heaters wiring combined at the meter and hence switched on at the same time from the replacement 5 port smart meter? The screenshot infers the water may be switched on for less time via the actual superdeal meter which complicates things a bit. It makes sense as you wouldn't normally have water heating on as long overnight as storage heater charging.

I am assuming there are no timers for charging on the actual storage heaters or a timer on the hot water tank.

There is also a Boost button on the actual superdeal meter. I don't think any smart meters themselves have boost buttons? Do you think rewiring might be needed to accommodate  boosting outside off peak hours for water and heating with a smart meter replacement?

I think that’s where I need to tag team with someone who’s been dealing with these upgrades. :)

@SteveUK I don't suppose you have any wiring documents like those a couple of posts up that describe your actual setup?

Good plan.

I have only managed to dig out just that partial screenshot wiring diagram. The whole document would give more clues on what might have to be changed if anything by @SteveUK. Be interesting to find out what ovo are considering for these Superdeal setups.

I don’t have a wiring diagram but confirm that our Superdeal meter has 6 cables going into it (including 3 output cables).  Our wiring set up is complex as it also includes a storage battery (and the Gateway controller) as well as a 4-pole contactor which switches on the storage heaters when triggered by the RTS signakl.

My understanding of the replies given above is that the Smart meter only provides two tariffs: the peak rate and the off-peak rate (which under Economy 9 comes on for 3 separate 3 hour periods) and I assume that both rates are available to everything in the house but that it is able to ensure that the storage heaters/immersion heater only receive power during the off-peak periods (is this correct?). 

As only two tariff rates are provided, I assume that off-peak and the heating rate will be the same.  This is not a major problem if the discount on the off-peak rate is large enough (and, as mentioned above, from 1 Jan the heating rate will be more than the off-peak rate - despite this being contrary to the ethos of providing a separate heating rate!)

I have only just noticed the ‘boost’ button on the Superdeal meter but have no idea what it does.  I would be reluctant to use this to boost 10 storage heaters on peak rate as this would be very expensive.  Also, this is not generally necessary as the output of the storage heaters can be boosted by opening their control flaps, turning on the storage heater fan (our larger storage heaters have this extra facility) or turning on a supplementary convection heater in selected rooms, or lighting the wood-burning stove.

Our immersion heater does come on during the night and this is not a problem with a well-insulated tank.  If we run out of hot water and need extra before the afternoon off-peak boost, the upper immersion heater in the tank (which is wired into the peak rate supply) can be switched on.

@SteveUK 

"My understanding of the replies given above is that the Smart meter only provides two tariffs"

In case it helps...

Smart meters themselves can record electricity usage every 30min so at the extreme you have tariff like Octopus Agile with the rate that varies every 30min and every day is different. 

Economy 7,9,10 have a peak and off peak rate. Just be careful as Economy 9 and 10 may simply not exist in years to come, so make sure whatever changes you make are as flexible as possible in case you have to tweak your setup again. I don't think it is clear exactly what tariff ovo will offer you when the RTS meters are all removed anyway.

There are new tariff being launched regularly, for example Octopus Cosy which is targeted at heat pumps has 3 rates. 

Then there are things like the British Gas Quantum tariff with very low off peak rates for use with Quantum Storage heaters.

Basically there is a lot of change happening on tariff.

@SteveUK 

You may benefit from paying a heating engineer to look at your complex setup.

Anyway a few things spring to mind.

Our immersion heater does come on during the night and this is not a problem with a well-insulated tank.  If we run out of hot water and need extra before the afternoon off-peak boost, the upper immersion heater in the tank (which is wired into the peak rate supply) can be switched on.

I think you will probably need a cheap timer added to the off peak immersion heater. That way if you go with anything like E9 you can control how long the tank heats up rather than the full 9 hours for example.

Yes, there is a lot happening on tariffs (and it would be good to have some definite clear proposals from OVO in good time before the RTS signal ceases).  Yes, the likes of Octopus are offering very flexible, multi-rate tariffs using smart meters which begs the question as to why OVO is taking so long, and making such heavy weather, of offering something similar.

The BG quantum tariff requires the use of their new intelligent (and very expensive) storage heaters.  If I was replacing one or two this might be of interest but for 10 the cost is prohibitive.

Yes, a simple, inexpensive time switch on the immersion supply(s) is feasible (I already have one on the peak rate immersion heater which I can just press to get a one or two hour boost if and when needed).

@SteveUK once you have a smart meter hopefully switching will be easier as new tariff are launched.

I don’t have a wiring diagram but confirm that our Superdeal meter has 6 cables going into it (including 3 output cables).  Our wiring set up is complex as it also includes a storage battery (and the Gateway controller) as well as a 4-pole contactor which switches on the storage heaters when triggered by the RTS signal.

So it sounds like the 4 pole RTS switch will have to go when the RTS meter goes.

You may want to think about what setup you want with the smart meter. You may have already done this.

A five port smart meter setup where the 5th terminal turns on and off in sync with the off peak timing of an E7 etc tariff

A 4 port smart meter setup where the tariff simply changes on the live terminal and you rely on your own external controllers to time when you charge your storage heaters.

The later option may give you more flexibility in the future as new tariff are launched. 

There is functionality built into smart meters to control external equipment called ALCS but no one currently uses it and it is unclear if it ever will now.