I don't know if this is a general problem or simply a quirk of the fact that my bill is produced in one month whilst my direct debit payment is called at the start of the following month, BUT …..
After monitoring it for a couple of months, I have noticed is that the 'minimum monthly payment' in the Direct Debit Calculator changes quite dramatically (in my case by more than 10%) depending on when in the monthly cycle I use the tool – lowest immediately after my monthly direct debit payment hits the account and highest just before the direct debit is due to hit the account.
I am guessing it is down to how the tool works on calendar months, rather than billing or payment cycles, but surely the 'minimum monthly payment' should - barring tariff changes or dramatic changes in consumption - remain relatively stable throughout the month.
In the case of my account, my daily consumption charges are reliably with in £0.02 range at this time of year, so the absolute maximum range of fluctuation for the 'minimum monthly payment' should be less than +/- £1 .. not more than 10%.
BTW, I have also noticed that the thirteenth column in the 'balance' display of the online calculator, when accessing through a browser, is mislabelled 'balance at the end of the month' when in fact it is the 'balance 12 months from today's date'.
Given that the predicted balance in the thirteenth column changes in exact synchronisation with the changes in the 'minimum monthly payment' , I am hazarding a guess that the two issues are related and that the Direct Debit Calculator is using the thirteenth column's data as per how the column is labelled, rather than what the column actually represents.
It tends to suggest that depending on when in the monthly cycle you use the Direct Debit Calculator, it will calculate the minimum payment on anywhere between 12 months of usage and payments up to 12 months + another 30 days of usage (but still only 12 months of payments), rather than always just 12 months of payments and consumption.
Would it be possible to get the Direct Debit Calculator fixed?
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Hey @MCH59,
That’s a really interesting insight!
Might be worth posting as a feature idea?
There’s been lots of research on this @MCH59 by @Firedog and there does appear to be some inconsistencies which can also be account specific. With the various tariffs, regions and type of users, I wonder if a ‘one style fits all’ approach doesn’t work effectively
There’s been lots of research on this @MCH59 by @Firedog and there does appear to be some inconsistencies which can also be account specific. With the various tariffs, regions and type of users, I wonder if a ‘one style fits all’ approach doesn’t work effectively
Thanks. I'm really not sure.
Tariffs shouldn't in theory make any difference, because they are really just a variable parameter. My gut feeling is that it relates to how the Direct Debit Calculator handles the current billing period and the 'thirteenth' month/column.
Take my account as an example: my account is currently £106.23 in credit and the Direct Debit Calculator tells me that my balance on 30th September,2023, will be £67.44 in credit and at the end of September 2024 will be £89.09 in credit … which is misleading because £89.09 is actually what the estimated balance will be one year from today, including unbilled payments, 4 days of unbilled standing charges and 3 days of unbilled energy use. Or, in other words, the estimated 'Today's Balance' if I were to look at my account on 4th September, 2024.
As we move through September, that estimated credit in the last column, marked September, will gradually decrease as unbilled charges eat away at it .. and it will continue to do that until 1st October (2nd because 1st is a Sunday) when my direct debit payment hits the account.
Likewise, as that credit balance in the last column decreases, my 'minimum payment' will gradually increase from £38 to £44 … and then immediately reset back down to £38 as soon as my next direct debit payment is applied to my account on the 1st of the month.
I think it has to be to do with either how many future payments it is including in the calculation or how the system handles the unbilled items in the two September columns. Those are the only two explanation that makes any sense in terms of how my account is behaving.
I’ll have a look for whatever @Firedog has shared and see if I can see a pattern.
PS: And now I’ve written that I’ve just realised that the problem is exactly as per what I said the calculator was effectively doing in my OP. The first September column already includes my payment on 1st September and ALL estimated charges for the month. .. in other words, the whole of September’s activity.
The first twelve columns already cover 12 months of estimated billing, so charges in the final column are over and above that.
Today’s minimum payment is calculated on 12 months and 4 days of charges and by the time the 30th of September arrives it will be calculating my minimum payment based not on 12 months of charges, but on 12 months and 30 days of estimated charges … and that is why my minimum payment increases gradually as the month progresses … and drops back down to £38 on 1st of the month.
[Thanks for the ping, @BPLightlog ]
@MCH59 I agree that the DD calculator needs some work. There have been changes within the last couple of weeks; whether they apply to everyone or there’s some A?B testing going on, I couldn’t say.
Your remarks about the 13th month hit home; last week was the first time I’d noticed that (from sometime in the period between the DD being taken and the end of the billing period) the How is my minimum payment calculated? sum divides the predicted yearly cost by 13 to arrive at the recommendation.
There is a change in the amounts shown at ‘we estimate that you’ll be £550.69 in credit in 12 months’ time’ above the calculator’s histogram (and on the infotip over the last ‘balance’ column) and at ‘we expect your balance to be £548 by the end of your plan’ on the Change direct debit amount page. No great shakes, but I wondered at the inconsistency.
Before these most recent changes, I did spot a major inconsistency: there’s no way I can arrive at the DD calculator’s prediction of yearly cost using the figures on my Plan page. I know that the Future Annual Consumption figure is just plain wrong, but that hasn’t bpthered the calculator until now. Using the Plan figures, I arrive at a number about £75 higher than the one being used to work out my DD. I’m still wondering …
[Thanks for the ping, @BPLightlog ]
there’s no way I can arrive at the DD calculator’s prediction of yearly cost using the figures on my Plan page. I know that the Future Annual Consumption figure is just plain wrong, but that hasn’t bpthered the calculator until now. Using the Plan figures, I arrive at a number about £75 higher than the one being used to work out my DD. I’m still wondering …
Yes, I’ve just done those calculations for mine and I arrive at a higher direct debit amount than the one the Direct Debit Calculator is currently suggesting as a minimum payment - but, interestingly, if I divide the total by 13, rather than 12, it is right in the middle of the £38 to £44 range through which the minimum payment changes during the month … which also seems to point the finger at the thirteenth month and how unbilled items are handled by the calculator.
The new Direct Debit calculator is …… interesting.
My minimum payment dropped instantly from £36 (which it was suggesting earlier this morning) to £33 now – at first glance that seems to fix the problem with the minimum payments creeping up during the 30 days after the bill is produced.
Not convinced by the shorter period on the visualisations though (not sure if that is meant to be six months ahead or to the Direct Debit anniversary date … both of which happen to coincide on my account).
Hi @MCH59,
Nice spot on the new Direct Debit calculations.
If you’re on a fixed plan, the visualisation will extend up to your contract end date. If you’re on the variable plan Simpler, it will extend to the end of March 2024. By the looks of it, you’re on the latter.
Hi @MCH59,
If you’re on a fixed plan, the visualisation will extend up to your contract end date. If you’re on the variable plan Simpler, it will extend to the end of March 2024. By the looks of it, you’re on the latter.
Yes, I am indeed. Thanks for the clarification - that makes sense now..
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