Asbestos backboard removal- Whose responsible?

Thank you again

No worries! Sorry it has to be that way regarding the email address, but SSEN are not exactly easy to work with and it’s a tricky balance that I need to maintain in order to be able to keep them talking. Other DNO’s are far less fussy but alas, that’s what you get with 50+ different hands in the pot.

If you need a hand with anything else, you know where to find us. :)

Understood, the SSEN website has very few signposts…...

‘Asbestos in meter cupboard’ might mean several things. One is that the main fuse is an asbestos type. The other is that the backboard on which some of the equipment is mounted contains asbestos.

Since an installation engineer has to remove the main fuse in order to be able to remove and replace the meter, it would have to be upgraded to a modern one first. That’s SSEN’s job, because it’s their fuse.

Dealing with an asbestos backboard is a bit more convoluted - It’s a complex process because any dust produced while doing the work has to be properly contained. You say that the cut-out (the box at the end of the cable coming into the property containing the main fuse) is not in the same place as the meter. That’s unusual, but it means that you’d have to have the asbestos-containing material removed by a licenced contractor and a new backboard installed. The board can’t be removed while the electrical equipment is mounted on it. OVO might be able to deploy an asbestos-trained and -equipped meter engineer who could do what’s necessary; he might be helpful and replace the board for you, but you’d have to supply it (they’re readily available from builders’ merchants). 

If it’s not the backboard that contains asbestos, but perhaps some of the building materials around the meter box, then that’s a job for a licenced contractor. There look to be four of them in Witney, so it might be worthwhile talking to one or more of them:

You might also get on to the local council’s environmental health officer (EHO, but often known as the ratcatcher!). Asbestos should be within their purview, so they ought to know who could deal with it. You might even persuade the EHO to make a site visit to see what needs doing, including what to do with the asbestos-containing material once it’s been removed. This is of course more likely to happen if you go heavy on the ‘invalid’ card, because he’s bound to be required to deal more quickly with vulnerable citizens. Good luck with finding out how to get hold of him …

Very many thanks. This is very helpful. Although I am put out by OVO’s failure to tell me exactly what the problem is - they have not said it is the back board or the cabinet itself and have ignored my request that they revisit to discuss with me. 

When the flat was rewired the electrician was initially flummoxed because there was no fuse in the cabinet. It is about 10 feet away (below) and was tested last year by the block manager.

Thanks. Sadly, I’m none the wiser. I can’t tell from your photos where the supply cable comes into the house - it’s usually through the floor or wall. This cable and its terminator inside the property (the service head, consisting of a cut out containing the main fuse in the terminology often used) belong to the DNO (SSEN), and only they can deal with it. There are many different sorts of service head, but I can’t make out whether the one for this property is included in your photos or not. This is the sort of thing your bemused electrician would have been looking for:
  

That said, it’s sounding more and more likely that the asbestos the meter engineer shied away from is either in the backboard or in the walls, roof or floor of the cupboard. This is all the property owner’s responsibility, so I’m fairly sure you’ll need to get one of those licenced contractors out to do a survey (unless the ratcatcher proves amenable, that is 🙂).

Don’t be too hard on OVO support: meter engineers are trained to spot asbestos when trying to do their job. If they suspect it, the job will be aborted* and the property owner would normally be given a notice saying what’s wrong. OVO won’t do any more until the owner has put it right and has evidence from whoever did it that the problem has gone away.
 

*   If you’d like to spend half an hour learning why this is such an issue, see here: Asbestos guidance for electricians Meanwhile, I’ll see whether I can persuade someone who does know what he’s talking about to enlighten us all: @Lukepeniket_OVO .   

Yes, I have decided to try to get an asbestos survey of the installation from Monday. I will first phone/mail SSEN, but if OVO have told them ‘asbestos’ they won’t do anything either. So I need to crack on.

Better picture of Horstmann meter which Blastoise says is a timer (I didn’t look closely and carelessly assumed it was an old meter) - the dial does seem to be turning, buys time if no RTS

And better pic of Schlumberger, tells me nothing but might mean something to a knowledgable person

Incidentally I don’t think I’m being hard, quite the opposite. Someone turns up, stays 10 minutes, doesn’t tell you what she thinks the problem is and you hear nothing for eight weeks, and only find out with a lot of effort. Then tells you that the DNO has been informed, knowing full well the DNO will refuse to touch asbestos. That is worse than bad IMO.

I will have to raise the DNO in any case and that is the only way to solve the riddle of the main fuse.

You are very kind to provide advice. Thank you.

Yep, a trusty old piece of kit that might still be working long after any shiny new smart meter has passed on to greater things … It’s really clever: so long as it’s set properly, it will not only switch the power on and off to the heating circuits at the right times, it also controls when the actual meter (the one with the two dials to read off) stops recording on one register and starts recording on the other. So when electricity gets cheaper overnight, the Horstmann turns storage heaters and possibly an immersion heater on and tells the meter to start recording on the Low register. Once the cheap-rate period is over, it switches off again and tells the meter to start recording on the Normal register. So long as the property is still heated by night storage heaters (NSH), this is just what a smart meter will do electronically.

It really should be checked every so often just to make sure that it’s switching at the right times. There’s a good YouTube video somewhere telling you exactly how to do this. 

thumbs up

Update.

I have had a survey of the meter cupboard done by a licensed contractor at my own expense. There is no asbestos in the cupboard. When I receive the certificate I will show it to OVO and ask them to tell me why, really, they did not install a smart meter on 17 July. They might conceivably have an explanation that has nothing to do with asbestos. I will also ask them to remove any reference to asbestos from my account and whatever they have passed on to the DNO.

I do not know what level of technical understanding the people who respond to queries and complaints have. They merely tell you what it states on the record, which is demonstrably untrue in this case. It is apparently impossible to have any meaningful discussion beyond that.

Cliff 

Hey @lowerclapton 

I’m sorry for the issues you’ve had,

I don’t see any problem in our team actioning the above ‘removing reference of asbestos from your account & with the DNO’ & installing a new meter with evidence of a survey. 

My assumption would be that our engineers aren’t trained to remove asbestos & advised to abort any appointment where there is suspected asbestos. If you are unhappy with the way this has been dealt with, there is the option to raise a complaint. 

In this case, where the customer had to pay for an asbestos survey because of a note on his account, he should at least be compensated for the cost of that survey. Apart from that, it sounds as if the account note may not have reflected the real reason for the aborted installation, in which case it’s still a mystery. Perhaps the engineer just ticked the wrong box. 

At any rate, Cliff should include evidence (e.g. a receipted invoice) of the unnecessary expense with his complaint, asking for it to be reimbursed.  

If you read the thread above you will note that my account has been marked ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’. No maybes, no ifs, no buts. And it’s not true.

On the subject of complaints, my first post on this thread said I could not get OVO to answer my complaints. I have answered some questions thanks to help from various quarters, but no help from OVO.

Here is what I said in my first post in the thread

“I asked OVO to replace my Econ7 meter 3 months ago. An ‘engineer’ called on 17 July, took a quick look at the meter cupboard and said ‘never seen that before, distributor will need to deal with wiring before meter can be swapped’ and drove off after about 10 minutes. I later got an email saying DNO had been notified and should make an appointment within 8 weeks. After 8 weeks I contacted OVO on Chat and was told DNO had been informed. I phoned DNO who knew nothing of it. After making numerous queries and complaints I finally got told this week the problem was ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ and DNO had responsibility to rectify. I have several issues with this (incidentally I’ve read all the online help on this kind of issue I can find)

1. I complained that OVO should have told me about asbestos at the time of the visit. No response from OVO.
2. I complained ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ told me nothing - where exactly was the asbestos alleged to be, and how did the ‘engineer’ reach this conclusion on the basis of a brief visual inspection. How could I discuss the matter with DNO in this state of ignorance? No response from OVO.
3. I pointed out several times that there was no DNO equipment in the meter cupboard so why is the DNO being held responsible. The main fuse and cut-off are on the wall opposite and the ‘engineer’ did not even look at them. No response from OVO.
4. I have asked to see the OVO ‘engineer’s’ report and the request made to the DNO. No response from OVO.
5. I have pointed out this is time critical and should be priority because of RTS withdrawal. No response received.
6. I have pointed out that the warnings OVO gave about RTS were completely inadequate, just generic warnings like ‘your meter may not work’ with no explanation why or description of the consequences. No response received.

…………………………………………………………………………….

Any advice how I can get OVO to confront their responsibilities and respond to legitimate queries and complaints? It’s above the pay grade of the help/complaints staff. All they can do is look at what the computer tells them and may not understand the issues. There are only two directors for the entire company and no mention of technical advisors.”

I would like to be told why, truly, OVO did not fit a new meter and what OVO thinks it has to do with the DNO.

That is my intention, thanks. It is not my job to try and make sense of this nonsense, and I’m not an electrician, but it must surely have to do with de-energising the main fuse? I can’t see any other reason to involve the DNO.

If you have already raised a complaint, even if ovo hasn't internally recorded that as a complaint for whatever reason, then you can ask the Energy Ombudsman for help after 8 weeks. You just have to have an audit trail you asked for a complaint.

https://www.energyombudsman.org/

It is relatively rare but sometimes unfortunately the only way to make progress is to escalate.

For whatever reason the moderators on the forum don't want to pick up the issue outside the forum, sometimes they will with issues.

Yes, I would go to the regulator etc. if it became absolutely necessary. Since there does not seem to be an RTS issue I can take a more measured approach. 

In my past professional life my frequent experiences with regulators and ombudspersons usually had undesirable, perverse or negative outcomes, as well as being painfully slow. E.G. have you ever tried to get the Information Commissioner to get a reply from a public body to a freedom of information request? 

Writing to a director sometimes yields results but OVO only has two of them! 

lowerclapton wrote:

Jeffus wrote:

lowerclapton wrote:

If you read the thread above you will note that my account has been marked ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’. No maybes, no ifs, no buts. And it’s not true.

On the subject of complaints, my first post on this thread said I could not get OVO to answer my complaints. I have answered some questions thanks to help from various quarters, but no help from OVO.

Here is what I said in my first post in the thread

“I asked OVO to replace my Econ7 meter 3 months ago. An ‘engineer’ called on 17 July, took a quick look at the meter cupboard and said ‘never seen that before, distributor will need to deal with wiring before meter can be swapped’ and drove off after about 10 minutes. I later got an email saying DNO had been notified and should make an appointment within 8 weeks. After 8 weeks I contacted OVO on Chat and was told DNO had been informed. I phoned DNO who knew nothing of it. After making numerous queries and complaints I finally got told this week the problem was ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ and DNO had responsibility to rectify. I have several issues with this (incidentally I’ve read all the online help on this kind of issue I can find)

1. I complained that OVO should have told me about asbestos at the time of the visit. No response from OVO.
2. I complained ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ told me nothing - where exactly was the asbestos alleged to be, and how did the ‘engineer’ reach this conclusion on the basis of a brief visual inspection. How could I discuss the matter with DNO in this state of ignorance? No response from OVO.
3. I pointed out several times that there was no DNO equipment in the meter cupboard so why is the DNO being held responsible. The main fuse and cut-off are on the wall opposite and the ‘engineer’ did not even look at them. No response from OVO.
4. I have asked to see the OVO ‘engineer’s’ report and the request made to the DNO. No response from OVO.
5. I have pointed out this is time critical and should be priority because of RTS withdrawal. No response received.
6. I have pointed out that the warnings OVO gave about RTS were completely inadequate, just generic warnings like ‘your meter may not work’ with no explanation why or description of the consequences. No response received.

…………………………………………………………………………….

Any advice how I can get OVO to confront their responsibilities and respond to legitimate queries and complaints? It’s above the pay grade of the help/complaints staff. All they can do is look at what the computer tells them and may not understand the issues. There are only two directors for the entire company and no mention of technical advisors.”

 

I would like to be told why, truly, OVO did not fit a new meter and what OVO thinks it has to do with the DNO.

 

If you have already raised a complaint, even if ovo hasn't internally recorded that as a complaint for whatever reason, then you can ask the Energy Ombudsman for help after 8 weeks. You just have to have an audit trail you asked for a complaint.

https://www.energyombudsman.org/

It is relatively rare but sometimes unfortunately the only way to make progress is to escalate.

For whatever reason the moderators on the forum don't want to pick up the issue outside the forum, sometimes they will with issues.

 

Yes, I would go to the regulator etc. if it became absolutely necessary. Since there does not seem to be an RTS issue I can take a more measured approach. 

 

In my past professional life my frequent experiences with regulators and ombudspersons usually had undesirable, perverse or negative outcomes, as well as being painfully slow. E.G. have you ever tried to get the Information Commissioner to get a reply from a public body to a freedom of information request? 

Writing to a director sometimes yields results but OVO only has two of them! 

 

 

It does vary, I admit that.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear ovo haven't actually even raised a formal complaint which could complicate matter if they wanted to try and delay you anyway.

Totally up to you, if you feel it will slow you down then simply persevere

Last week I submitted a complaint to a sub prime lender on behalf of my brother,  copied in the Financial Conduct Authority, and the issue was resolved in 2 days after the FCA intervened due to the serious nature of the issue which does not happen as a rule. I must admit to be a serial official complainer. The ICO has also been informed but that was a minor side issue. I have also been successfully with the FSCS and the Energy Ombudsman, so no my experience is not the same as yours.

I also use to answer foi requests in a previous role and we always answered them on time from my team, so no my experience is different to yours again.

Fingers crossed you will get sorted by ovo

You can contact the CEO if you have complained

Jeffus wrote:

lowerclapton wrote:

Jeffus wrote:

lowerclapton wrote:

If you read the thread above you will note that my account has been marked ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’. No maybes, no ifs, no buts. And it’s not true.

On the subject of complaints, my first post on this thread said I could not get OVO to answer my complaints. I have answered some questions thanks to help from various quarters, but no help from OVO.

Here is what I said in my first post in the thread

“I asked OVO to replace my Econ7 meter 3 months ago. An ‘engineer’ called on 17 July, took a quick look at the meter cupboard and said ‘never seen that before, distributor will need to deal with wiring before meter can be swapped’ and drove off after about 10 minutes. I later got an email saying DNO had been notified and should make an appointment within 8 weeks. After 8 weeks I contacted OVO on Chat and was told DNO had been informed. I phoned DNO who knew nothing of it. After making numerous queries and complaints I finally got told this week the problem was ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ and DNO had responsibility to rectify. I have several issues with this (incidentally I’ve read all the online help on this kind of issue I can find)

1. I complained that OVO should have told me about asbestos at the time of the visit. No response from OVO.
2. I complained ‘asbestos in meter cupboard’ told me nothing - where exactly was the asbestos alleged to be, and how did the ‘engineer’ reach this conclusion on the basis of a brief visual inspection. How could I discuss the matter with DNO in this state of ignorance? No response from OVO.
3. I pointed out several times that there was no DNO equipment in the meter cupboard so why is the DNO being held responsible. The main fuse and cut-off are on the wall opposite and the ‘engineer’ did not even look at them. No response from OVO.
4. I have asked to see the OVO ‘engineer’s’ report and the request made to the DNO. No response from OVO.
5. I have pointed out this is time critical and should be priority because of RTS withdrawal. No response received.
6. I have pointed out that the warnings OVO gave about RTS were completely inadequate, just generic warnings like ‘your meter may not work’ with no explanation why or description of the consequences. No response received.

…………………………………………………………………………….

Any advice how I can get OVO to confront their responsibilities and respond to legitimate queries and complaints? It’s above the pay grade of the help/complaints staff. All they can do is look at what the computer tells them and may not understand the issues. There are only two directors for the entire company and no mention of technical advisors.”

 

I would like to be told why, truly, OVO did not fit a new meter and what OVO thinks it has to do with the DNO.

 

If you have already raised a complaint, even if ovo hasn't internally recorded that as a complaint for whatever reason, then you can ask the Energy Ombudsman for help after 8 weeks. You just have to have an audit trail you asked for a complaint.

https://www.energyombudsman.org/

It is relatively rare but sometimes unfortunately the only way to make progress is to escalate.

For whatever reason the moderators on the forum don't want to pick up the issue outside the forum, sometimes they will with issues.

 

Yes, I would go to the regulator etc. if it became absolutely necessary. Since there does not seem to be an RTS issue I can take a more measured approach. 

 

In my past professional life my frequent experiences with regulators and ombudspersons usually had undesirable, perverse or negative outcomes, as well as being painfully slow. E.G. have you ever tried to get the Information Commissioner to get a reply from a public body to a freedom of information request? 

Writing to a director sometimes yields results but OVO only has two of them! 

 

 

It does vary, I admit that.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear ovo haven't actually even raised a formal complaint which could complicate matter if they wanted to try and delay you anyway.

Totally up to you, if you feel it will slow you down then simply persevere

Last week I submitted a complaint to a sub prime lender on behalf of my brother,  copied in the Financial Conduct Authority, and the issue was resolved in 2 days after the FCA intervened due to the serious nature of the issue which does not happen as a rule. I must admit to be a serial official complainer. The ICO has also been informed but that was a minor side issue. I have also been successfully with the FSCS and the Energy Ombudsman, so no my experience is not the same as yours.

I also use to answer foi requests in a previous role and we always answered them on time from my team, so no my experience is different to yours again.

Fingers crossed you will get sorted by ovo

You can contact the CEO if you have complained

 

 

Thanks

Cliff

Yes if a job note is provided with the cost I’m sure this can be provided as a complaints resolution. I’m sorry you’ve had such a negative experience @lowerclapton. 

Sorry to hijack this, but I have same problem with my m in law’s oap flat, I of 27 in block, going round this same circle. My point is, these people, probably thousands in oap flats built in the 80s, didn’t ask for meter changes, but BBC have conspired to make the meters not function properly, and likes of SSEN and OvO compound the conspiracy by making life awkward over “possible” asbestos in backing boards installed originally by SSE, do they really expect all these old folk to individually go through this palaver of finding, appointing contractors to see if the boards are asbestos based, or more likely, cement boards, and for them all to get this done individually by the time the signal is switched off, with not long to go now. What planet are these people on? Surely between them they should take corporate responsibility for making this problem go away.

Hey ​@shirleyambarrett,

Sorry to hear about the issues you’re having with your mother in law’s flat. If asbestos is suspected then to protect the health of the engineers who work in these kinds of environments they need specific equipment and training to carry out the work. I’ve left a helpful article below that details who owns what when looking at meter replacements or fuse box work etc. 

• Who owns what? - Your guide on cut outs, meters, fuses and who's responsible Tutorial

Hopefully you make progress soon and get the work carried out and if you have any questions let us know. Any of the community would be happy to help 😊

Thanks for that, but informing people why the problem cant be fixed isn’t productive in achieving a fix is it? We need someone to bang various heads together to solve a problem that no-one wanted, and that should be fixed by the people who have created it, not just for one, but for thousands.

The meter board is the responsibility of the property owner. If MIL owns the flat, then it’s probably her responsibility. If she’s a tenant, then it’s the landlord’s. If as you imply the whole block is equipped with similar suspect backboards, probably in a communal area, then the owners will (collectively) have to negotiate a remedy with the DNO, which sounds like it might be SSEN. It’s possible that there is a property manager who could make the necessary arrangements, but it won’t be a straightforward task. The DNO doesn’t have authority to move meters, so the supplier’s engineer will have to be present when a backboard is replaced.

It sounds like this is someone else’s headache rather than yours, but the first approach should be to whoever has overall responsibility for the building. They should then ascertain whether there is an asbestos hazard and proceed accordingly. Any inspection should include the main fuses, which could also contain asbestos.

If there is no asbestos present, the supplier can go ahead with a meter exchange.

Last, it will be a waste of energy looking for someone to blame for a situation like the one you describe. It’s unfortunate, and some hardship may ensue, but if you’re able to help finding the solution for your MIL, that’s where you might concentrate your efforts.