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Are my charges for Economy 7 night rate correct?



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This depends an awful lot on what meters you have and how they’re wired up, which is why no-one can make any meaningful suggestions until we see your setup. 

I think it’s most likely that all usage during off-peak hours is being recorded on the off-peak register, whether it’s from your E7 circuits (feeding the storage heaters and immersion heater) or not. One unit a day while you’re not at home doesn’t sound unreasonable; it’s equivalent to one 40-watt bulb being lit all the time. Add together fridges, freezers, fire alarms, security lights and all the other stuff that’s still running even though you’re not at home and it’s not an unreasonably high level of consumption. Remember you’re paying around £15 a month in standing charges, so a monthly bill of £30 amounts to a constant consumption of 20W. It doesn’t get much lower than that.

I switched all my E7 gear off a year ago, just after I’d had new consumer units installed. At the time, I was on a fairly reasonable fixed-price deal, but that came to an end in January this year. At that point, I switched from an E7 tariff to the single-rate one. If you’re able to do this, it would save you a lot of money if you’re not taking advantage of the cheap rates for heating, but you’d have to dream up some other way of staying warm next winter. I have a wood-burning stove …

 

PS I find that the easiest way to upload a photo is:

  • Open the image in picture editor (I’m on a Windows PC, so I use Paint);
  • Copy the image (Ctrl-A to select, Ctrl-C to copy);
  • Paste it into a reply here (Ctrl-V).

 

 

 

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Hmm… Just a bog-standard Five Terminal Economy 7 Meter from Horstmann (now Secure).

This does mean that all usage from anything on the property during the E7 Off-Peak hours is recorded to the cheaper Off-Peak rate, so it will often clock usage even if the storage heaters and immersion heater are shut down.

I note however, that it’s getting a bit old and the Certification may have expired. A lot of meters over 10 years old are up for Re-Certification and have to be replaced at that point, so you may want to get it replaced. The easiest way to arrange that is via https://smart-booking.ovoenergy.com .

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I thought the 5th terminal on these was a timed feed Blastoise? Although I can’t see anything off and so it would have some consumption anyway

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That’s right. The Fifth Terminal is the one that gets flipped on during E7 Off-Peak and shut down during E7 Peak. In this case I think it’s the one on the far right of the meter. The problem with a meter like that particular one, is there’s no way to confirm whether it’s actually switching the relay on/off correctly. Aclara meters make that easy - I can tell at a glance in under two seconds.

But not all manufacturers make it easy...

So the question still is if as can be seen in pictures, the switches are off, should my meter still register 1 unit per 7 hrs overnight? Or is this normal? If so i am paying nearly £ 10 plus vat. But as i also pay extra on normal for economy 7 then i am being charged for the priviledge twice.

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Actually, those switches are in the ON position.

Only one rate can be clocking usage at a time, not both. Anytime the Night Rate register starts spinning around midnight, the Day Rate register stops spinning. And when the Day Rate register starts spinning at around 7am, the Night Rate register stops spinning. You wouldn’t be paying twice.

also my normal appliances do not change to economy 7 overnight because they would register more than 1 unit. Economy 7 as was uses diferent sets of wires for overnight usage.  I wish there was a meter that put all onto cheep rate so when up early then would not pay day rate during night.  

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In that case, I can only assume there’s a problem with your internal wiring that’s beyond the scope of what OVO can help with. I’d recommend calling in a qualified electrician.

It has just had its 5 year inspection, he agreed no readings should register

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Then there must be something using juice overnight.

I’m really sorry, but OVO probably can’t help you with this. The usage in question is far too small to show up on a Creep Test (you’d be waiting forever!), meaning OVO wouldn’t be able to justify a Meter Accuracy Test to see whether the meter is faulty.

The only recommendation I can make is to consider upgrading to a Smart Meter and have it set to Half-Hourly Readings. At least then we’d have some data to play with.

So i just keep paying them £10+a month for nothing then?

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You appear to be reluctant to accept our advice, possibly even refusing it despite our best efforts.

I’m sorry, but there’s nothing more that can be done. We’ve done our best but this appears to be something that’s beyond OVO’s control in the opinion of at least two forum volunteers.

I thought the forum was for customers to aske each other? Seems you are the same as ovo and are not trying to understand my problem, do you give a massively rich company money for nothing then?

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I am a customer, as are both @Firedog and @BPLightlog . We all volunteer our time for free and make no money out of this.

We’ve done our best, but we can’t find any signs of a problem here.

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Economy 7 as was uses diferent sets of wires for overnight usage.   

 

Yes, that’s what we see in the CU where everything’s off. But there’s a clock in the meter itself that switches between registers at the appropriate times.

You’re not giving us all the details; you said that while you were away, you were clocking up 1kWh per day. I tried to explain that that was quite a reasonable consumption level when (almost) everything’s switched off. Now you’re saying that you’re clocking 1kWh overnight while you are at home. That again is reasonable; on top of the background usage that’s always going, there’s all the stuff that happens overnight when you’re at home: lights, chargers, TV and Xbox on standby, bedtime drinks, early morning tea … the sort of thing a smart meter would be able to help you pinpoint.

What you’ve told us indicates  that being on an E7 tariff, all your usage in off-peak hours is being charged at the off-peak rate regardless of whether it’s on the heating E7 circuit or not. Blastoise explained it pretty clearly: “Only one rate can be clocking usage at a time, not both. Anytime the Night Rate register starts spinning around midnight, the Day Rate register stops spinning. And when the Day Rate register starts spinning at around 7am, the Night Rate register stops spinning.“ By the way, the register switch happens at the right time to the second. If there is a breaker that makes sure your E7 gear is off during the day, it won’t turn on precisely at midnight; it could be at any time within the first ten minutes or so. This is to ensure that a whole town’s storage heaters don’t switch on at exactly the same time, because if they did, something would blow up. 

Thanks for the pictures, by the way - they’re helpful.

 

You do not understand at all, i have tried to give you diferent examples of my situation.  You are telling me that it is acceptable to be charged for one unit per night even though switched off!  

You are wrong saying that all electric resorts to econ 7 at night, if that was the case there would be no need for a complete separate system, would there? 

Please research this as what you have been told is incorect.  Keith.

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With the greatest respect @Turnip if you just want somebody to agree with you, the best place is social media not this help group. All we have tried to do is offer solutions, some from experience, others from what’s been seen before over many years. It sounds like we cannot help you unfortunately 

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You are wrong saying that all electric resorts to econ 7 at night, if that was the case there would be no need for a complete separate system, would there? 

I have a completely comparable setup, the only major difference being that mine is a smart meter. My storage heaters are on a separate circuit, governed by a separate 63A CU just like yours. They have been switched off since 1 April 2022. Even so, my off-peak meter register has clocked up 547 kWh in that period, which is 448 days long. I make that 1.2 kWh per night on the ‘E7’ register even though all the E7 stuff is switched off. All of that has been charged at the cheap rate according to my bills.  So I submit that I’m not wrong …

It’s solely the clock in your meter that determines what counts as off-peak, not the way your heaters are wired up. 

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I'd also like to add that we do extensive research all the time, even calling on outside experience and experts in some cases.

We've answered a lot of Economy 7 related questions and we know them well, I myself having answered a ton of them.

It's very rare that we get it wrong, but all three of us are highly confident of our advice in this particular thread. 

I give up if firedog you say that you register all that then your setup must be completely diferent if i were you i would question the usage because if you are registering use then as you admit its a diferent circuit then you like me are being charged for nothing.   Also when we do go away the only thing left on on normal is freezer which equates to about three units per day, but still get charged a unit per night.

Ok so if i go on a smart meter and it does not show up econ 7 usage then i will hold you responsible for all the years of being charged for no electric being used. At least if i keep my meter i have proof.    Ihave suggested they send someone out completely seal off econ7 and come back in a weel to see if i am correct, they wont do it.

Have you ever had a query like mine?     If you are correct then when we are away the bill should reduce considerably if freezer goes on econ 7. There is no system i know of that does this.  I have always said i would like to invent it.

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Most E7 systems actually work that way - it’s only the wiring circuits that determine what is available off peak. If you’re not using off peak then you’re better off asking to be put in a standard non E7 rate

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