Hello, we bought our current flat a few months ago and found out that Ovo is our electricity supplier. It is an all electric property, with electric immersion heater for hot water and electric storage heaters. This flat was designed around off peak electricity.
There are 2 electricity meters, one so called white meter just for the off-peak circuit (storage heaters plus immersion water heater) and one for everything else, each with a separate MPAN number. The off peak meter turns the off peak circuit on and off, so that water heater and storage heaters only have power at night, it is the RTS type.
When we moved in, Ovo created 2 account numbers, one for each meter and put each on the single rate tariff (without consulting or giving options).
This means that we have to pay the standing charge twice and we have to pay expensive rate for hot water and heating.
I have contacted Ovo multiple times (calls and chat) asking to:
have only one account with one standing charge
be moved onto some type of off-peak tariff (Economy 7 or something else)
I was told that neither is possible. I was told that they cannot merge the two accounts and that they cannot put me on Economy 7, because I have the two meter set up (complex meter).
Also, I wasn’t offered migrating to a 5-port smart meter with Economy 7 as a solution - I only came across it on this forum.
I don’t understand this. Why can’t they offer some kind of peak / off-peak tariff to me?
I know about the shut down of RTS signal next year and the push to smart meters. However, switching to a smart meter is not useful for us if they refuse to change our tariff.
Also, I think we should only be paying one standing charge, as these two MPANs are associated (it is one household).
Can you please advise? What are our options?
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You should hear shortly from OVO about arrangements for replacing your meters with a new smart meter, if you haven’t heard already. Until then, I’m afraid you’re stuck with the current tariff: OVO doesn’t have any that can apply one high rate to one of the supplies and a low one to the other, and I don’t think there’s any other supplier that could do this.
No-one with a complex metering arrangement (what the industry calls a Restricted Meter Infrastructure, RMI) should have to pay two standing charges if the tariff is single-rate. I would think that the artifice of two separate supplies is immaterial in this respect: you are being penalized in the way that this condition (SLC 22G) is intended to avoid. You should submit a complaint in writing about this, expecting to have any extra standing charges you may have paid refunded. Other customers who went all the way with complaints like this were also given compensation for OVO’s failure to comply with their licence conditions. Read about Ofgem’s decision on this sort of situation.
@Firedog thank you for your reply and for the suggestion to submit a formal complaint about paying two standing charges. I will do that.
It does seem that the best approach at the moment is to be on a single-rate tariff, and to ask to only pay one standing charge.
I have done more research and I think I identified exactly what type of meter we have here. I think it is ComfortPlus Control (CPC), and it was installed by Scottish Power when this building was built.
It is quite a complex set up and I am wondering whether it can be switched for a smart meter with Economy 7 tariff.
This tariff has a Daily Standing Charge which applies regardless of usage and two different kWh rates. These are Heating kWh rate and the Other rate.
Heating rate applies to all electricity supplied by the heating meter and is made available on three circuits which operate as follows:
a) The controlled circuit supplies storage space heating and is energised for periods having an aggregate daily duration between 0 and 14 hours chosen by ScottishPower on the basis of forecast weather conditions.
b) The storage water heating circuit supplies storage water heating and is energised for periods formally defined as being at ScottishPower’s discretion totalling 4.5 hours per day, but in practice would normally be 04:00 to 08:30 Local Time.
c) The direct space and water heating circuit supplies direct acting space and water heating and is energised 24 hours per day.
So there are in total four electric circuits, two of these go live only at certain times of the day. I can see this physically in the electric meter set up, there are four cables for the four circuits labelled as follows.
“Restricted water HTG supply”: circuit for immersion water heater that switches on at night
“Restricted HTG supply”: circuit for storage heaters that switches on at night, but for longer / different time than the one for hot water
“Unrestricted HTG supply”: unrestricted heating, this is boost function for water heater and wall-mounted panel electric radiators, can be used any time of day
Consumption from these three circuits is measured on the meter labelled “Heat”.
“24HR supply”: this is everything else, available any time, measured on the main meter labelled “Domestic”.
So at some point the previous owners must have switched from Scottish Power to Ovo, but the meter is still the original one, so different circuits still go on and off at times determined by Scottish Power.
Can this be replaced for a smart meter with say Economy 7 tariff, while still having those two night circuits (hot water and storage heaters) be switched on at night? I am worried about ordering a smart meter installation and then we end up without hot water (as happened to some people).
Hi @EdinburghFan ,
ComfortPlus Control is basically a re-badged THTC for the most part, albeit even more stupidly complicated than THTC.
OVO should be able to handle it, but you may need to wait a bit longer - I have ways I can dig into this via the resources we have here. Please bear with us.
I’ve contacted the RTS to smart meter team (number from OVO email about the RTS change) to get the meter replaced and was really disappointed, the person I spoke to kept insisting I have two meters in the property, was not aware that RTS meters have two MPAN numbers (thus a complex meter), I had to explain everything again and was not believed.
The issue is that there are two accounts, one for each MPAN (each part of the complex meter), a situation I inherited from the previous owners. I want to move to a smart meter and have one account. The issue is how to close the second account.
At one point I was offered two smart meters to be installed, as the person was insisting I have two meters. Whereas it is one meter, with 2 MPANS split across two accounts.
I was told that I need two engineer visits booked on the same day, one to replace “one of the meters” with a smart meter and one to remove the other meter. Then the account that corresponds to the removed one could be closed. But removal bookings are not available at the moment. So no solution.
Who can I talk to? How do I get to the right people in the company? Someone knowledgable about the complex meter setups.
I think we’ll have to call upon our really helpful expert meter engineer, @Lukepeniket_OVO, if he has a moment to look at your careful description of the situation. I’m sure he’d want to see photos of both meters clear enough for us to be able to read the displays and other markings, then another one or two showing the meters and all the cabling to them from where the the power cable comes into the flat and to the consumer units or fuse boxes.
I can’t see why this lot couldn’t be replaced by a single five-wire smart meter. You’d lose the constant heating feed, and the water and storage heaters would be on the same switched circuit energized only during offpeak hours. With an Economy 7 plan, direct heaters and the hot water boost would be at peak rates during the day; you might want to have a look at plans like Economy 10 which spreads the offpeak slots around a bit so you’d have some offpeak hours during the afternoon and late evening too. I’ll see if I can find a moment to come up with some comparative figures for you.
Thank you for your reply. I’ve contacted OVO again via chat, talked to the RTS team and got some clarifications.
The position of the OVO technical team is that there are two meters, one RTS, one standard. This is how it shows on their system. I sent them a picture, but not sure if they had a look.
I have a booking for a replacement of the RTS meter for a smart meter with Economy 10 tariff. However, the other one stays, as is not RTS and they say will continue working. They could remove it, but for a fee. However, things are connected to it (anything other than hot water and heating), so obviously cannot just remove.
So still two meters and two standing charges.
When I look at the setup, it seems like its all connected, not so easy to just replace one meter and keep the other one, let’s see what the engineer will say.
@Lukepeniket_OVO I would be happy to share pictures of the whole setup. Is it possible via a direct message?
The one labelled “Heat “ is the off-peak one. Capturing hot water and heating. I think it covers:
I noticed you wrote that you’d opted for Economy 10 when your smart meter is eventually installed. I said I’d try and come up with some comparative figures for you; I did, but then forgot to post them. I’ve rather assumed that you reside in Auld Reekie …
E&OE
The costs depend very largely on the usage pattern. If there’s a chance of running greedy appliances other than heaters (e.g. electric shower, tumble dryer, cooker, iron ...) only during offpeak periods, costs would be minimized. It’s not unusual for an electrically-heated household to use 75% of the total energy consumed during offpeak hours. This table shows some comparative figures to illustrate the effect of changing the proportion of offpeak usage:
If this is all too confusing, I’ll crawl back under my rock and leave you in peace …
@Lukepeniket_OVO Can you please confirm you received messages from me? I have not received any reply.
I’ll contact him internally too @EdinburghFan
@Emmanuelle_OVO Thank you!
HI @EdinburghFan - I’m a customer in a similar situation to you, (also an Edinburgh resident with Comfort Plus Control) except I’m with Scottish Power. I’m aware this is an Ovo board but I’m desperate for some help!
Scottish Power have said to us that they will change us to White Meter 1 tariff (obvs they are not Ovo), but that’s not suitable for our set up which is the same as yours - Comfort Plus Control. I have tried to get them to engage with the fact they can’t just switch us to that tariff as it won’t work with our meter set up as we have two separate meters with two separate circuits with two separate sets of wiring. Even if it were technically possible - we don’t have timed heaters so we can’t use off peak heating at all. They’ve booked us in to get a smart meter on 13 May and nothing, NOTHING is getting them to listen to me.
Could you let me know what Ovo are doing for you, so when someone finally calls me back (they’ve missed 5 scheduled callbacks as this is too complicated for any customer service agent to deal with, so they’ve just not bothered,) I can tell them what a responsible energy company is actually doing? Please message privately if that’s best.
To Ovo - I’m obvs not expecting you to advise on anything but please please don’t delete this message as I am at my wits end with trying to solve this. I’ve shed more than a few tears! I’ve even contacted my MP and that’s made no difference!
Hi @CookieCooke,
This forum is open to everybody not just customers of OVO.
Obviously if you are not an OVO customer some of the staff and volunter's internal “superpowers” can't be used - but help and advice is always offered.
TBH I myself know nothing about these old tariffs - Total Heat Total Control, Comfort Plus, - but others here do know them and will help as much as they can.
HI @Nukecad thank you so much for your message. If anyone has any suggestions for this, I would be incredibly happy to hear them! My complaint is now being handled by someone in the Chief Exec’s office at Scottish Power, and even they aren’t engaging with the infrastructure issue and unsuitability of the tariff ‘solution.’ God I wish we were with Ovo.
Hehehe, you’re welcome!
Just in case it helps, many of the Forum Volunteers hold the Plan Zero Hero or Carbon Catcher tags - you’ll see those next to our names and we’re always happy to help you out, just give us a shout and we’ll swing by and say hi.
Likewise, the Forum Moderators such as @Ben_OVO and any other OVO Staff are all tagged with _OVO on the end of their names and their ranks show what they do. We also have access to a few contacts for certain things. Luke’s superpowers are downgraded a bit if you’re not with OVO, but he is my Sekrit Weapon if I ever get stumped.
I can promise you this much. Looks like your posts here are 100% safe in terms of the House Rules. You’re being cool with us, so we’re totally happy to welcome you and grab you a sofa.
As for your case…? Bear with me - lemme dig into some resources I had buried somewhere. This may take a while so I apologise if I don’t reply for a couple of days. This stuff is my speciality but I need to get brained up again on the Scottish Power specific stuff so I’ll need to bury myself in the research for a bit.
Speak soon!
@Blastoise186 thank you - that’s amazing, I really appreciate it. I’ve attached some pics of our meter set up for you in case that’s helpful. One thing to add - we have a system override for the hot water heating, (it’s heated by RTS overnight, but we can get hot water during the day anyway if we do a ‘boost’) and our storage heaters aren’t timed - we can operate them at any time and get heat. (Though the temperature of that may be controlled by RTS - i.e. there’s a certain maximum output controlled through RTS).
I like having one heat tariff and one standard tariff 24/7, and actually don’t want to swap to White Meter 1 at all, as we don’t have the facility to use off peak electricity due to the way our storage heaters function. I’d like to keep the Comfort Plus Control tariff - just minus whatever the RTS does for this system. Do you know what would happen if we did nothing at all? Or is it feasible for SP to fit a meter that will allow us to continue with this tariff as is, once the RTS bit is taken out of the equation?
Thanks again!
Urrff… That’s a messy setup…
All I can say right now is that there won’t be a Comfort Plus Control style option to migrate to. It’s not just RTS that’s going away, it’s just about every RTS Tariff too… And there’s no meters that can do CPC without RTS assistance...
@Blastoise186 eeek - this is exactly what I’ve been trying to get SP to understand, that our flat is basically wired for CFC and that alone. Sending a smart meter fitter isn’t going to do anything at all. It’s got to the point that I’m actually quite frightened that no one will listen to me and I’m doing everything I can to avoid a nightmare situation on 30 June where things just stop working - and SP are treating me as a massive inconvenience. I’ve even suggested they send someone out from SP Energy Networks to look at the system to advise them on what will work!
As mentioned - all our heating is on a control circuit and all our standard electricity is on another circuit. I don’t even know which one of them the smart meter would be fitted to (both)? We can’t use white meter 1 off peak as there’s no timers on the storage heaters. Changing to white meter 1 would, I imagine, mean completely rewiring aspects of the system which I just can’t see them doing.
I’m probably panicking too much and I’ll leave you to your digging for now but just want to say again how much I appreciate this! There’s 47 people with this same system in my development, 47 individual customers they are failing by not engaging meaningfully with us.
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