RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service) Shutdown Update

Thanks, but …
  

Either I’ve had too much brandy butter, or you live in an electricity substation, or there are only nine digits there …
 

I live in Perthshire, PH2 9 postcode area, work from home mainly and other half also home during the day.  One other slightly odd thing I've noticed is that the heater is on at the moment (1230pm), or at least the isolation switch light is illuminated but the hot water one isn't which makes me wonder if the water is set up differently somehow. 

Oops.  Should have been 888.  😁

 Thanks.
    

That means you are probably on this tariff:
  
 

Don’t take that as gospel, because there are other possibilities. If you are indeed on the Economy 10 plan, the offpeak times are 4:30am - 7:30am, 1:30pm - 4:30pm and  8:30pm - 12:30am (GMT). All your usage (not just for heating) will be at the lower rate in these periods.

The times will not be precise; the switch will in practice take place a few minutes later than the nominal ones, so you should be careful when deciding to turn on something power-hungry like the electric stove not to start too early.

This is probably your best bet for a household where the occupants are at home all day. The storage heaters are unlikely to reach full charge in a three-hour slot, but nevertheless it may be enough to keep the house warm until they get more charge in the next slot. You’ll just have to watch carefully, using a thermometer and keeping notes of your observations. You should eventually work out what’s best, and you may find that the late evening slot isn’t the most efficient time to be charging the heaters, because they might just keep the temperature up while you’re in bed and don’t really need it. If this turns out to be the case, you may be better off with, say, inexpensive fan heaters to provide comfortable heat when you need it in the evenings and just have the storage heaters charging up in the early morning and afternoon. 
  

Many water heaters have their own time switch, which would explain why yours doesn’t come on at the same time as the storage heaters even though they’re on the same switched circuit. If there is a time switch, make sure it’s not set to start heating up at around midnight, which is normal for many of them. 

You don’t need the water heater on for all of the 10 offpeak hours. If it were, you could end up wasting a lot of energy keeping the water at its target temperature at times when you just don’t need it. Depending on the size of the tank, it may be quite enough just to have it heating up during the overnight slot, so it’s ready for, say, morning showers. You may also be able to give it a boost during one or other of the daytime slots if somebody uses all the hot water so there’s none left for the washing up. This is all individual, so you’ll have to keep an eye on the tank’s performance to work out how to heat it most economically.

I’m afraid we can only make general suggestions here: everyone’s circumstances are different, so you may have to find a knowledgeable - and reliable - person to come and advise if you can’t work it out for yourself. 

You may find it less stressful to get away from PAYG and on to a Direct Debit account. It will cost about the same, but you’d be free of the hassle of topping up and of the danger of being cut off if you’re not able to top up for whatever reason. This can be arranged remotely; if you’re interested, just ask Support.

Firedog wrote:

 Thanks.
    

kbrown36 wrote:

I live in Perthshire, PH2 9 postcode area, work from home mainly and other half also home during the day. 
 

That means you are probably on this tariff:
  
 

Don’t take that as gospel, because there are other possibilities. If you are indeed on the Economy 10 plan, the offpeak times are 4:30am - 7:30am, 1:30pm - 4:30pm and  8:30pm - 12:30am (GMT). All your usage (not just for heating) will be at the lower rate in these periods.

The times will not be precise; the switch will in practice take place a few minutes later than the nominal ones, so you should be careful when deciding to turn on something power-hungry like the electric stove not to start too early.

This is probably your best bet for a household where the occupants are at home all day. The storage heaters are unlikely to reach full charge in a three-hour slot, but nevertheless it may be enough to keep the house warm until they get more charge in the next slot. You’ll just have to watch carefully, using a thermometer and keeping notes of your observations. You should eventually work out what’s best, and you may find that the late evening slot isn’t the most efficient time to be charging the heaters, because they might just keep the temperature up while you’re in bed and don’t really need it. If this turns out to be the case, you may be better off with, say, inexpensive fan heaters to provide comfortable heat when you need it in the evenings and just have the storage heaters charging up in the early morning and afternoon. 
  

kbrown36 wrote:

... which makes me wonder if the water is set up differently somehow.
 

Many water heaters have their own time switch, which would explain why yours doesn’t come on at the same time as the storage heaters even though they’re on the same switched circuit. If there is a time switch, make sure it’s not set to start heating up at around midnight, which is normal for many of them. 

You don’t need the water heater on for all of the 10 offpeak hours. If it were, you could end up wasting a lot of energy keeping the water at its target temperature at times when you just don’t need it. Depending on the size of the tank, it may be quite enough just to have it heating up during the overnight slot, so it’s ready for, say, morning showers. You may also be able to give it a boost during one or other of the daytime slots if somebody uses all the hot water so there’s none left for the washing up. This is all individual, so you’ll have to keep an eye on the tank’s performance to work out how to heat it most economically.

I’m afraid we can only make general suggestions here: everyone’s circumstances are different, so you may have to find a knowledgeable - and reliable - person to come and advise if you can’t work it out for yourself. 

You may find it less stressful to get away from PAYG and on to a Direct Debit account. It will cost about the same, but you’d be free of the hassle of topping up and of the danger of being cut off if you’re not able to top up for whatever reason. This can be arranged remotely; if you’re interested, just ask Support.

 

Thanks that's very helpful.  Ultimately I am trying to get on to a direct debit account but that will require a change of meter so trying to understand what I am currently on to help inform future decisions.

One final question, where might I find a time switch for water if it does indeed exist? There is nothing obvious near meters or boost switches for the water, the tank itself is in the attic, is it possible the switch would be there? That seems unlikely. 

That’s more like it! Thanks. We now have two successful RTS migrants on E10 in N Scotland (region 17), with surprisingly identical MPANs. If only it were so simple! 
 

I’m sorry, but have we been talking at cross purposes? I got the impression that your RTS system had already been replaced with a smart meter. Is this not the case?

It may depend on the type of meter, but in many cases a smart meter can quite easily be switched to/from prepayment mode remotely, with no meter exchange required. 

Yes, it does. An immersion heater’s time switch will usually be in an obvious place; mine, for example, is next to the tank on the wall of the airing cupboard it lives in. Mine incorporates a boost switch as well as the clock. Again, you may have to ask someone both knowledgeable and reliable to help trace how your water heater is wired up, because it shouldn’t ever need to run at peak rates unless it needed a boost. That’s why it would normally be wired on the same circuit as the storage heaters. 
  

Perhaps it’s time to ask for photos of your system:

• Press a button on the meter to light up the display, then take a close-up of the meter so its display and all its markings are clear and legible. Note the time when the picture is take;
• Move back and take a photo of the whole backboard to show the cables from the service head (at the end of the main supply cable to the property, incorporating the main fuse) to the meter and the ones coming from the meter towards the consumer units;
• It might help to have photos of the consumer units themselves with the lids open, again clear enough to be able to read what each breaker is for (assuming they’re adequately labelled).     

This should remove any lingering confusion.

My Dads Meter Number - from the bill using new smart meter readings S02888100, it also has a meter serial number and the MPAN on the bill, this is in NE Scotland. 

Interestingly Octopus Energy have just released a new tariff for people with Electric Storage Heaters called Snug Octopus which is offering 6 hrs cheap rate at night 00:30 to 06:30 and a 1 hr cheap rate boost in the afternoon. Night rate for my dad’s address s 9p/kwh, day rate is 27.87p /kwh and standing charge is 60.87p per day. 

His E10 rates are off peak 20.25p / kwh, peak 24.92 /kwh and SC 59.93p per day. His last bill was over 90% at off peak. 

It says “If you have a second generation smart meter (SMETS2)” you can go on this tariff, it also says “Modern storage heaters that can connect to wifi or an app may not be compatible as some aren't controlled by the smart meter itself – but it's worth double-checking.”

Now I think the new THTC meters are not standard SMETS2 smart meters. But I don’t know - THTC never really gave any options for people on THTC to switch to a better tariff, and apologies to OVO for posting about a new tariff from a competitor, as OVO have always been a very good supplier since taking over from SSE. Anyway I am going to contact Octopus to see. 

Howdy ​@thelearner ,

Please rest assured that the House Rules on the OVO Forum fully support discussions regarding other suppliers, even if that means suggesting that someone else has a better deal than OVO it’s fully permitted here. As long as you’re not trying to make money out of it yourself with sneaky affiliate/commission/kickback tactics (especially undisclosed ones!) and you’re not just spamming referral links all over the Forum without adding something that actually benefits the Forum itself, you’re good to go.

We’ll never report, edit or take down posts that fit those criteria above as long as the rest of the post meets the House Rules.

Hope that helps!

So reply from Octopus is that Snug tariff is currently not working correctly and they are working to improve it. Then meter make/model needs to be eligible for it to work and they need to ensure they can connect to it. 

So it probably will happen but don’t know when. 

My mother is currrently on Simpler Energy - Superdeal 01. We need to know if there are any cheap rate periods during the day as she wants to heat her immersion heater when she wakes up and sometimes in the afternoon. 
 

Thanks 

Hi ​@Andysparrow ,

Please see the thread below for more details

• RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service) Shutdown Update F.A.Q.

I’m afraid Superdeal doesn’t offer any guarantee of cheap rates during the day - it’s mostly overnight. With that being said, it usually gives two hours of cheaper heating power during the afternoon for top-ups.

With that being said, please migrate your mother to Smart Meters ASAP. It is likely that Economy 7 or Economy 10 will be more appropriate and her current Meters WILL STOP WORKING from June 2025 onwards, which could leave her with no heating or hot water.

When you’re next with her, please call 0330 303 5063 and ask for Squad 70, or Live Chat via https://ovoenergy.com/help and they’ll set everything up for you.

The Priority Services Register might also be of interest: https://www.ovoenergy.com/register-for-priority-services

Spoke to OVO about my uncles allegedly 3ph supply om 18th Dec. They have all photos and engineer report and I got them to add my email to account and emailed them all the details - no appointments but assured they wiuld call with one. 

Emailed again 15th Jan no reply. Called yesterdaym straight through got an appointment for late Feb - confirmed 3 PH engineer booked, 

The setup intrigues me so going to try and be there for eng appointment.

Hey ​@thelearner 

Thanks for the update, glad to hear you’ve got an appointment booked in.

Let us know how that goes.

Mo59 wrote:

Firedog wrote:

An appeal to successful RTS migrants
 

When your shiny new smart meter has settled down completely a few weeks after installation, your supply will probably have been allocated a new MPAN. The ID part of the MPAN should be the same as the one for the old non-RTS meter, but some of the other figures may have changed. An MPAN consists of “S” followed by 21 digits in six groups, and you’ll see the full thing on your bills. It looks like this:
 

 

I’d be very interested to see examples of the new MPANs, so if anyone can be bothered to reply here with theirs, I’d be grateful. An MPAN is considered PII (Personally Identifiable Information), which a criminal could use for nefarious purposes. However, it’s only the MP ID number that is traceable to a particular address, and I’m not interested in that. The first 10 digits (in this example, 00 111 222 13) will be quite enough. I’d also want to know the name of the tariff you’re now on, e.g. Simpler Energy - Economy 7 - 01/10/2024 (most probably Economy 7 or Economy 10, but there will be others). If you’re no longer an OVO customer, the name of your current supplier would be welcome, too.

I’ll happily explain my interest in this if anyone cares! Basically, I’m trying to find out how these new meters are set up to match the tariff. That way, we may have a way of spotting why a particular meter isn’t performing as expected - e.g. switching tariff rates at the wrong times.

Over to you! 

 

Mine is 02 88 100 17.  I am in Perthshire, Scotland and on Economy 10.  Meter installed 4th November and all worked correctly since installation.

Well Firedog here is an odd one for you.  I had my new smartmeter installed on 28th November to replace my 2 meter THTC set up.  My postcode is AB33 8 in NE Scotland. I cannot give you the section of my MPAN as it has not been added to my bills yet. I can only give you the details which OVO have recorded on the online account history of my readings and that is the PII.

Everything was set up correctly on Simpler Energy - Economy 10 tariff with switch times being correct and the electricity tariff rates being correct for Economy 10.  On 1st January however when the tariff rates changed I discovered that I was now being charged THTC rates even though my times were still Economy 10 and my account said I was on Simpler Energy - THTC.  I have also discovered that while my new meter is registered on my account the old RTS meter is still showing on my account (MPAN 02 529 16 17 2) . I highlighted this to OVO on Jan 2 but despite repeated calls by me to seek a resolution I have got nowhere.

What then does my MPAN state should be in place at my home?

I can’t really make any sensible comment, I’m afraid. I’d just say that replacing a complex multi-meter system with a single smart meter is an incredibly complex process, far more so than just upgrading a single meter. Changes have to be made all over OVO’s systems and on the national databases. Theyr’e not all automatic, and they take time. It may also matter in which order they’re done, so there are multiple opportunities for something to go wrong when it’s all happening under great pressure as the RTS shutdown looms ever closer.

In your situation, I think I would just back off and wait for things to take their course. What is most important is that meter readings are getting through and being recorded on your account. If they are, you don’t have much to worry about so long as you have an idea of what you’re actually spending, even if you have to do the sums yourself. If you’re paying by Direct Debit, and it’s enough to cover your costs, all the rest will eventually come out in the wash. If you’re not, be sure to salt away enough to cover the bill when it turns up.  

By all means keep an eye on your account to spot any changes, but I wouldn’t be bothering support at all if you’re happy with the way the meter’s working.

Just like to add to the PH2 person that here in PH16 have same thing. Hot water on at different times than storage heaters and we have no timers that I can see. I wonder if it’s something that Scottish Hydro fitted for us? Do we have 2 RTS? 

​@Karenergy Welcome back! The last time we heard from you, you explained how the engineer who came to exchange your meter threw up his hands in horror and left without doing anything. Have you got any further?

Your RTS system probably has three different rates: Peak, Offpeak and Heating. The Heating bit is what is controlled by the RTS, charging the storage heaters up when SSEN feel like it for probably 7 hours a day, not necessarily in a contiguous block. The water heater may be wired to work at offpeak rates and times, which might be midnight to 7 am. Only you can tell, but I don’t think an arrangement like this would be unusual.

We are on THTC rate like many others. There are only 2 rates on this tariff.  While I agree that RTS controls the storage heaters I’m confused about what is controlling our main immersion heater if not RTS. It is on at similar but not the same times to the heaters. We have only the most basic (old) equipment. I called OVO last week as fed up getting ‘urgent’ warnings. Was told that there is a hold up because of problems with ‘the signal’ and just to wait and ignore messages….

Thank you - that is what we have (meter readings 1 = ‘Peak’; 2 = ’Off-peak’; 3 = ‘Heating’). I’m having difficulty understanding exactly what will happen with the meter switch. The wiring from our current meter looks like this:

I’m not certain if those three circuits match to the meters/rates and what will happen to them on meter switch. I’m guessing that the new meter will just have 24hr supply and timed supply so maybe these ‘water heater’ and ‘storage heating’ circuits will be merged into a timed supply depending on the Tariff/Meter selected. It also sounds like the new meter and tariff are tied together and Economy 7 or 10 cannot easily be interchanged if we find that we need some daytime heat on the timed circuit. Have I got this about right?

The big difference between a THTC system (if that’s what you have) and a smart metered one is that there is no longer any 24-hour heating supply. All electricity used is measured as it passes through the meter and recorded on either the peak or the offpeak register, depending solely on the time. There is a device built on to the meter that controls the supply to, say, storage and water heaters that are most economical when they only consume electricity at offpeak rates. You could perhaps leave this switched circuit to get on with the job of supplying the heaters and trust to the heaters’ thermostats to stop gobbling power when they’ve got enough. 

Meanwhile, everything else has power available all the time, but if it’s used at offpeak times, it’s billed at the offpeak rate. This is why a tariff like Economy 10 can be a good replacement for THTC. You get two offpeak slots during waking hours which it makes sense to exploit for greedier appliances like cookers, washing and drying machines, hoovers and irons, and also for electric showers and direct heaters where appropriate.

There will be some lifestyle adjustments to be made, but all in all it should be possible to get comfortable at no greater cost than THTC. 

It may be possible to switch from one ToU tariff to another, but it won’t necessarily be straightforward. I wouldn’t bank on it; I’d do the sums in advance to get it right first time.

Thanks, by the way, for the photo. It didn’t help much, I’m sorry to say. There are three live cables coming from the meter, so I suspect that the thinner one is simply a load switch for an external contactor, for example for the water heater. One of the thicker ones will be the constant supply to things like lights, sockets and kitchen equipment, while the other will be the switched (‘offpeak’) supply to the storage heaters. This arrangement could be replicated exactly by the new smart meter.    

Many thanks for the reply. Reading through some posts it sounds like THTC is a Scottish thing and we are near Southampton but apparently configured similarly in our flat. We have some storage heaters that are older and have no thermostat so we’ll upgrade to something more modern when we can afford it. Hopefully we can keep these working as they are now when the meter is changed. 

Yes, there are similar arrangements in your region, e.g. Flexiheat and Superdeal.  There are minor variations (there may not be a 24-hour heating supply at lower rates, for example, just lots of hours each day during which power is delivered for, say, 7 hours at times determined by SSEN via the RTS). I think most of what I wrote earlier applies equally well. 

Enginer came out replaced my rts meter and other meter with exonomy10 he had to reinstall old system as no mobile coverage what does this mean for us in the Highlands 

1. Mobile coverage has nothing to do with it - the smart meter uses a different communications system.
2. The engineer was probably badly prepared. Was he from OVO or one of their sub-contractors?
   An OVO engineer should have known to bring a pre-configured Economy 10 meter with him if there was doubt about the availability of the smart meter network (WAN).

There are a few solutions for those outwith the WAN in the Highlands. OVO’s infrastructure team will be looking for a way to get you connected, so you may want to call OVO and ask what happens next. You should also ask why you weren’t provided with a pre-configured meter.