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Complex Multi-Rate Meter & Heating types

Complex Multi-Rate Meter & Heating types
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83 replies

  • Carbon Cutter****
  • 7 replies
  • October 11, 2024

Hi Emmanuelle-OVO

 

Your post that E10 timings are rigid, can you please post times for *edited by mod* postcode and are these times guaranteed by OVO and soley controlled by the smart meter ?


Blastoise186
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 7875 replies
  • October 11, 2024

Hi @Kirrimove ,

Please don’t post your address/postcode here - this Forum is public and you just leaked your location to the world.

The best place to get the exact timings from is via OVO Support at https://ovoenergy.com/help - they can look it up for you.

But I can confirm that with Smart Meters, the meter itself controls the times locally once it has been configured, after which it will continue to run them on a static basis even if Comms drops out for any reason.


Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
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  • October 11, 2024
ledow wrote:

Economy 10 …  has a set series of hours spread over the day (they differ in Scotland, I believe), and those hours are ALWAYS by GMT (so in the summer they are staggered by an hour). 
 

The only example we’ve seen here of actual Economy 10 timings in Northern Scotland (the Scottish Hydro region, designated 17 or P, depending on where you look) were as follows:
  

SSC TPR Timings Type GMT
938 376 All days all months 0000-0030, 0430-0730,1330-1630,2030-2400 Off Peak !1
938 377 All days all months 0030-0430, 0730-1330, 1630-2030 Peak !1

 

I extracted the detailed information I have given here from one of the scripts powering the account site*.  This source gives my own timings (which are not E10) as GMT: !0, and I know that they shift by an hour in British Summertime. 

I don’t know how to confirm this categorically; I wouldn’t trust Support from my experience to have either accurate or up-to-date records of things like this. We’ll know in a couple of weeks’ time if all those newly-installed E10 meters in N Scotland suddenly start switching heaters on and off at the same local time as before.
  

If anyone’s really interested, I found the list of TPRs at line 61222 (getClockingHours) in 
https://account.ovoenergy.com/_static/vendor.bundle.18b2ab63bbe3baa1.js

You can find the associated SSCs in this file:
TPR Reference Sheet16.pdf

 


  • Carbon Cutter****
  • 7 replies
  • October 11, 2024

This was I obtain from support today for Glens/Angus area in Scotland. Not the same as I was informed when signing for new smart meter change from THTC. But not a million miles away. I will report back after a couple of days to see if this is indeed the case. 

 

 


Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • October 11, 2024

Those are exactly the same GMT times as I quoted above, so what is different from what you were told when you signed up for Economy 10? The times are agreed between the supplier and the DNO (SSEN), so should be set in stone.

I’ll be very interested to hear what times your heating comes on after 27 October! It could well be that the data I found aren’t completely accurate. 

As regards the guarantee you were given, there may be a slight delay (a few minutes) before the heating comes on at the start of each offpeak period. I say ‘may’, because I’m not entirely sure whether the random delay built-in to these meters applies to this plan times. You may have to take a stopwatch to compare the time shown on your IHD at the advertised start of an offpeak period and the time when the red light comes on to indicate a major load. 

Please keep us informed!

 


  • Carbon Cutter*
  • 3 replies
  • October 13, 2024

My brother has these two meters. The white one was put in by SSE when he complained about such massive bills. What is this meter why do the numbers change and does the Brown meter have peak, off peak and stored heat readings showing? White meter is Sept to Oct 

 


  • Carbon Cutter*
  • 3 replies
  • October 13, 2024

Solar Energy 


  • Carbon Cutter****
  • 7 replies
  • October 13, 2024

Following on.

I was told by CS when I arranged smart meter install my new E10 timings would BST 1-4 pm 8-10pm 12-5 am. As these timing was not what was happening I contact CS via chat  a few days ago and was told my timings would be BST 5.30-8.30 am 2. 30-5.30 pm 9.30pm-01.30 am. These timings I am actually receiving at he moment (bst), take a few minutes. Location Angus Scotland.

On arranging set up I was told by CS my Tariff shown on smart screen would be Stand charge 0.6635, Standard 0.2402 and off peake 0.1821, this was quoted for a start date of 7th Oct. My screen is showing Standing Charge 0.6292 Standard 0.2616 off Peake 0.1821. So a difference in Standing Charge. 

Meter reading take on transfer, and what was added to my account did not corresponded. After phone call reading adjusted to correct reading on old meter, now seen on my online account this morning. New billing seen online is all over the place. I cannot see tariffs for Standard and off Peake rates. I can only see Standing Charge 0.6292 (inc tax). OVO app does work for E10 tariffs, account viewed online.

 

I was told on this call billing will take 2-6 weeks to sort it self out. Why this long ? Why was my traiff not fully showing.  Todate I have not received a written notice of E10 tariff costs , only verbally via CS and this has not been 100% correct.

I am hoping that billing will adjust in time, but fearful if it not correct on setup/now it will take longer to untangle. So far I spent 3-4hrs dealing with this either on chat, a call or on hold. 


  • Carbon Cutter*
  • 3 replies
  • October 13, 2024

No not on solar. Apparently this was put in to track the other meter? OVO said it will cost £180 to remove it because SSE put it in. And for someone to come and check why his bill is enormous via the meter it will cost £150. He tried to set up an online account today with OVO and his account number wasn’t recognised. God knows whose it is but he’s paying for it.


BPLightlog
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  • 2733 replies
  • October 13, 2024

The white meter is simply measuring electricity for whichever circuit it’s on (the numbers on the cables - 3&4 - will correspond to where the feed is from).

The other meters are showing a radio controlled system so these other threads might be useful to look at 

A wider photo of the whole set up and cables might help someone to view it better. 
If there’s a problem with the meter it can be checked. 

If there’s something wrong there wouldn’t be a charge but if the meter tests out ok that’s where the £150 would be charged.


Emmanuelle_OVO
Community Manager
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  • 2572 replies
  • October 14, 2024
Kirrimove wrote:

 

I was told on this call billing will take 2-6 weeks to sort it self out. Why this long ? Why was my traiff not fully showing.  Todate I have not received a written notice of E10 tariff costs , only verbally via CS and this has not been 100% correct.

I am hoping that billing will adjust in time, but fearful if it not correct on setup/now it will take longer to untangle. So far I spent 3-4hrs dealing with this either on chat, a call or on hold. 

 

Hey @Kirrimove

 

When a meter is exchanged the national database needs to be informed so they can update their records. The removal reading & install readings are confirmed by a third party data collector & need to be loaded & updated onto our billing systems as well as the new serial number(s). So the industry timeframe is six weeks.

 

Keep us posted with how you get on once the timeframe has elapsed. 


Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • October 14, 2024

  

Kirrimove wrote:

I was told by CS when I arranged smart meter install my new E10 timings would BST 1-4 pm 8-10pm 12-5 am.

I was told by CS my Tariff shown on smart screen would be ...

 

Sadly, Support don’t always get it 100% right. The timings should be pretty straightforward, but it’s easy to misread a line in a long table. Rates, on the other hand, are a jungle that it takes a native to navigate, because there are just so many variables:

  • Region
  • Name of tariff
  • Date tariff was released
  • Type of meter (single- or multi-rate)
  • Payment method (Direct Debit, On Demand or Prepayment)

OVO are required to publish their tariffs, so you can find them for your region on this page: Our prices | OVO Energy Note that these aren’t set in stone, with some of them changing weekly. These figures are all given ex VAT.

When your account is transferred to a different tariff, you should get a message (nowadays usually by email) giving the rates you’re signing up to - including VAT - and other T&Cs. This is the basis of your contract with OVO, and if there’s any difference between what the email contains and what you see on the Plans page, you’ll have to contact support to find out why.

It may take some time for all these details to be updated in your account, specifically on the Plan page and on bills. Your first bill should have the right rates, although even this can’t be guaranteed, because there are separate bits of the company that deal with all the various aspects of account management. Updates unfortunately don’t move between them at the same pace.

The timings are laid down for an individual multi-rate account by the Meter Timeswitch Code (MTC) which is part of the MPAN (the label in the graphic on that page isn’t quite right). 

  

Kirrimove wrote:

I am hoping that billing will adjust in time, …

 

I’m sure it will. How long that might take is another question.


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 7, 2024

I previously had Superdeal on an RTS type meter.
Last year I had a smart meter fitted Aclara SGM1416B which was set up to ECO7 schedule
This year I asked if I could shift to an ECO10 patern as the storage heaters have releasedt all their heat by late evening.
I was told yes this had been effected.
The result was that the costing and timing period was adjusted but the Auxilliary Load Control Switch has not been successfully adjusted to the ECO10 schedule and continues to operate to ECO7 schedule.
So now I have the same cold heaters by evening and paying more for such.
Constant contact to support is getting no result in fact they went off at a tangent not reading my emails and have rendered my IHD inoperative.
Is there any easy way I can get this resolved?

Not sure the issue of the second MPAN from the RTS meter has been totally addressed either.


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 7, 2024

I may have shouted too soon.
Looking like the change might have been effected yesterday.
Can’t see timely data through OVO methods.
Third party apps are sowing the load to the ECO10 seemingly now but such graphs are supplied a day later.


Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • November 7, 2024

It will be encouraging to many RTS migrants that you were able to be moved from Economy 7 to Economy 10. We have seen all sorts of claims that this can’t be done, or that it can only be done by a visiting engineer.

We have seen so often that the ALCS isn’t configured to match the ToU regime on the meter itself (or indeed configured at all). This can be done remotely, but there may be a delay - often a few days - between the request reaching the desk of a smart team member and the update being transmitted successfully to your meter. So yes, you may have shouted too soon.

If your IHD is now working again (it’s not clear what happened there), its orange or red traffic light may be your best indicator that the heaters are charging up. Otherwise, some storage heater owners have replaced the switch or socket supplying a heater in view with one fitted with a neon pilot that lights up when the circuit goes live.

My water heater is on the same circuit as the space heaters; its timer switch has a red lamp that lights up when the immersion heater is working.


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 7, 2024

It’s probably been almost a month since they said they had made the changes.

Last week I wrote saying the ALCS wasn’t operating to ECO10 and they seemed to go at a tangent saying they would do something to the IHD it lost connection and hasn’t recovered since.

OVO account portal and app both say they are not compatible with complex meter so I’m reliant on third party apps which have a delay.

Yes I had been fed they couldn’t change the ALCS through from when they first said they could but obviously something changed or finally clicked into place.


Shads_OVO
Retired Moderator
  • Retired Moderator
  • 465 replies
  • November 8, 2024

Hi @Colinyguard,

 

I can see our forum volunteer has already stopped by with some advice here.

 

Glad to hear that the ALCS issue has been sorted for you.

 

Have you tried resetting your IHD? Maybe turning it off and on again may help reset it. If you’re able to let us know which IHD you have we may be able to advise further.

 

 


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 8, 2024

Yes tried switching it off and moving it closer to the meter to no avail.

IHD3 Model CA3100002 Type 1

Don’t particularly need to use it as most times I know what I’m consuming.
Would have been handy for observing when the load was applied to the storage heaters during this schedule upgrade.

I remain confused by some of the OVO help guidance as it implies the supplier fetches the meter reads from the IHD and the operative also believed her doing something to the IHD would resolve the ALCS issue.
Whereas I thought the IHD was just a slave readout device from meter held data.

Whatever ALCS issue has been resolved whilst IHD defunct.


BPLightlog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2733 replies
  • November 8, 2024

You are absolutely correct in that the IHD is simply a remote display. It has no part in any billing, circuit switching or otherwise.
If you are not concerned about its use then fine as it doesn’t affect anything else but I’ll just mention that those devices (IHD’s) can retain settings for quite a while after power down. It’s recommended to remove power for some 2-3 minutes before reconnecting to reset - you may have tried that but just in case. 


Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • November 8, 2024

 Just putting my pedant hat on for a moment …
    

BPLightlog wrote:

… the IHD is simply a remote display. It has no part in any billing, circuit switching or otherwise.
 

Some IHDs (including, I think, ones commonly provided by OVO) are also PPMIDs - Pre-Payment Meter Interface Devices. They can be used to top up the meter without having to wrestle with the meter itself - a function that might be classified under billing.

There are also allegedly IHDs capable of switching auxiliary loads (typically EV chargers) on and off, so-called HCALCS. I’ve never spotted one in the wild, though. 

This is not likely to be of much interest to @Colinyguard, though, so I’ve only added it for completeness.

However, Colin might try running this little utility which - if it works - will reveal any problem with the Home-Area Network (HAN). Any warnings about expired security certification can safely be ignored, but any others may be of interest. Visit this page: n3rgy data Smart Meter check, enter the 13-digit MPAN and tick the tiny confirmation box.  


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 8, 2024

The one thing that i see that puzzles is:

For the meter

Security Expiry Date: 2023-08-30 00:00:00 - Warning: Security Certification will expire in less than 3 months or has already expiredWhich is a date prior to installationThe communications hub on the other hand is dated through to 2029

Firedog
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • November 9, 2024

Thanks. Perhaps you didn’t notice where I wrote Any warnings about expired security certification can safely be ignored …

I’m assuming that you see a section about the IHD that doesn’t show any warnings at all. If on the other hand the IHD section is missing, I think that means that it’s been un-paired (disconnected from the meter), which may have been what the support agent did. @Blastoise186 should know …

For reference, this is what I see:
  

In-Home-Display (Energy Supplier responsibility)Device Type: PPMIDManufacturer: CHAMELEON [10E0]Model: unknown [00220001]Installed: 2023-09-27Firmware Certified: 01/12/2022Firmware Age: 2 [00010102] (number of newer versions available)Security Expiry Date: None

 


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 6 replies
  • November 9, 2024

Full output below.
Yes would probably guess they have unpaired it.
Third party apps that rely on the GUID can still view the data.

 

 

Communications Device (Smart DCC responsibility)Device Type: CHFManufacturer: WNC [1072]Model: unknown [57310102]GUID: 00-0B-6B-01-20-08-52-BBInstalled: 2023-11-28Firmware Certified: 09/11/2023Firmware Age: 0 [05000007] (number of newer versions available)Security Expiry Date: 2029-11-30 00:00:00Electricity Meter (Energy Supplier responsibility)Device Type: ESMEManufacturer: ACLARA [118F]Model:  SGM1416B [00000401]GUID: 00-1D-24-02-01-25-01-DCInstalled: 2023-11-28Firmware Certified: 18/07/2023Firmware Age: 1 [0007080E] (number of newer versions available) - No Export MPAN configured - Import MPAN configured [2000011425495]Security Expiry Date: 2023-08-30 00:00:00 - Warning: Security Certification will expire in less than 3 months or has already expiredGas Proxy Function (Part of the Communications Device)Device Type: GPFManufacturer: WNC [1072]Model: unknown [57310102]GUID: 00-0B-6B-AA-20-08-52-BBFirmware Certified: 09/11/2023Firmware Age: 0 [05000007] (number of newer versions available) - Warning: Device Configuration has not been completed [INSTALLED_NOT_COMMISSIONED] - OK if no Gas Meter is installedHOMECache: 2024-11-08 19:21:32.198385 [no cache]

Firedog
Plan Zero Hero
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 2015 replies
  • November 9, 2024

That’s what it looks like. Try Support again and hope to get someone who knows what they’re doing.


Emmanuelle_OVO
Community Manager
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  • 2572 replies
  • November 11, 2024

Please keep us posted with how you get on @Colinyguard, your advice might be helpful for other community members in a similar scenario. 


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