RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service) Shutdown Update

Howdy ​@metalsman ,

Just a heads up that Luke has responded to your question. ^^^

:)

In that case, it may be that particular Engineer wasn’t ready to do this particular job yet due to lack of experience. It happens sometimes but I suspect a more experienced Engineer can probably handle it based on what Luke is saying.

We totally need to spend a day together in the Bristol office at some point! XD

How will my old (dial type) storage heaters "know" when to come on? As I understand it under the old THTC the circuit they were on only came live when the RTS switched over 

Hi ​@kbrown36 ,

Please be advised that the OVO Forum is currently in Hibernation Mode for Christmas. Responses from Forum Volunteers and Forum Moderators may be delayed at this time.

When you migrate to Smart Meters, anything that was previously controlled by RTS/THTC will remain controlled in exactly the same way - by the Meter itself. The only difference is that the Meter will do it locally without relying on remote signals.

Your storage heaters will just continue to work as they do today - the Engineer will make sure of that.

An appeal to successful RTS migrants
 

When your shiny new smart meter has settled down completely a few weeks after installation, your supply will probably have been allocated a new MPAN. The ID part of the MPAN should be the same as the one for the old non-RTS meter, but some of the other figures may have changed. An MPAN consists of “S” followed by 21 digits in six groups, and you’ll see the full thing on your bills. It looks like this:
 

I’d be very interested to see examples of the new MPANs, so if anyone can be bothered to reply here with theirs, I’d be grateful. An MPAN is considered PII (Personally Identifiable Information), which a criminal could use for nefarious purposes. However, it’s only the MP ID number that is traceable to a particular address, and I’m not interested in that. The first 10 digits (in this example, 00 111 222 13) will be quite enough. I’d also want to know the name of the tariff you’re now on, e.g. Simpler Energy - Economy 7 - 01/10/2024 (most probably Economy 7 or Economy 10, but there will be others). If you’re no longer an OVO customer, the name of your current supplier would be welcome, too.

I’ll happily explain my interest in this if anyone cares! Basically, I’m trying to find out how these new meters are set up to match the tariff. That way, we may have a way of spotting why a particular meter isn’t performing as expected - e.g. switching tariff rates at the wrong times.

Over to you! 

Here you are:-

With OVO - Dundee

simpler energy Economy 10 - 1 Oct 2024

02 888 100 17

Finally working out what is going on with my set up. I have now established that my night storage heaters (old dial type) and hot water are "coming on" at several times of the day.  This would suggest to me that the circuity and RTS is functioning

I am currently on a PAYG meter but do not actually know my tariff. 

My storage heaters do heat up and the room feels particularly warm later in the evening (potentially after a period of charging).

My question is whether the heaters work effectively this way ie receiving several shorter periods of charging during the day ( I assume they are charging up when the circuitry goes live) or whether they require one longer single charging period e.g. 7 hours or more.

Hope that makes sense. 

If you told us where you live, we could probably find out what your tariff is. The first part of your postcode is enough. 

That sounds as if you’ve been put on an Economy 10 tariff. This gives three offpeak periods, one during the night, then one in the afternoon and another in the evening. Again, we’d have to know where you are to be able to tell you when the offpeak periods are.

Because the times vary a lot from place to place, it’s difficult to say how your heaters could be optimized. These older ones don’t retain the heat as well as more modern ones, meaning that they tend to leak heat that you might prefer to save for later.

Another important factor is whether there’s anyone home all day or not; it’s silly to be keeping the temperature up when there’s no-one there, only to find that the heaters have run cold by the time you get home and really need them to warm the place up.   

I live in Perthshire, PH2 9 postcode area, work from home mainly and other half also home during the day.  One other slightly odd thing I've noticed is that the heater is on at the moment (1230pm), or at least the isolation switch light is illuminated but the hot water one isn't which makes me wonder if the water is set up differently somehow. 

An appeal to successful RTS migrants
 

When your shiny new smart meter has settled down completely a few weeks after installation, your supply will probably have been allocated a new MPAN. The ID part of the MPAN should be the same as the one for the old non-RTS meter, but some of the other figures may have changed. An MPAN consists of “S” followed by 21 digits in six groups, and you’ll see the full thing on your bills. It looks like this:
 

 

I’d be very interested to see examples of the new MPANs, so if anyone can be bothered to reply here with theirs, I’d be grateful. An MPAN is considered PII (Personally Identifiable Information), which a criminal could use for nefarious purposes. However, it’s only the MP ID number that is traceable to a particular address, and I’m not interested in that. The first 10 digits (in this example, 00 111 222 13) will be quite enough. I’d also want to know the name of the tariff you’re now on, e.g. Simpler Energy - Economy 7 - 01/10/2024 (most probably Economy 7 or Economy 10, but there will be others). If you’re no longer an OVO customer, the name of your current supplier would be welcome, too.

I’ll happily explain my interest in this if anyone cares! Basically, I’m trying to find out how these new meters are set up to match the tariff. That way, we may have a way of spotting why a particular meter isn’t performing as expected - e.g. switching tariff rates at the wrong times.

Over to you! 

Mine is 02 88 100 17.  I am in Perthshire, Scotland and on Economy 10.  Meter installed 4th November and all worked correctly since installation.

Thanks, but …
  

Either I’ve had too much brandy butter, or you live in an electricity substation, or there are only nine digits there …
 

I live in Perthshire, PH2 9 postcode area, work from home mainly and other half also home during the day.  One other slightly odd thing I've noticed is that the heater is on at the moment (1230pm), or at least the isolation switch light is illuminated but the hot water one isn't which makes me wonder if the water is set up differently somehow. 

Oops.  Should have been 888.  😁

 Thanks.
    

That means you are probably on this tariff:
  
 

Don’t take that as gospel, because there are other possibilities. If you are indeed on the Economy 10 plan, the offpeak times are 4:30am - 7:30am, 1:30pm - 4:30pm and  8:30pm - 12:30am (GMT). All your usage (not just for heating) will be at the lower rate in these periods.

The times will not be precise; the switch will in practice take place a few minutes later than the nominal ones, so you should be careful when deciding to turn on something power-hungry like the electric stove not to start too early.

This is probably your best bet for a household where the occupants are at home all day. The storage heaters are unlikely to reach full charge in a three-hour slot, but nevertheless it may be enough to keep the house warm until they get more charge in the next slot. You’ll just have to watch carefully, using a thermometer and keeping notes of your observations. You should eventually work out what’s best, and you may find that the late evening slot isn’t the most efficient time to be charging the heaters, because they might just keep the temperature up while you’re in bed and don’t really need it. If this turns out to be the case, you may be better off with, say, inexpensive fan heaters to provide comfortable heat when you need it in the evenings and just have the storage heaters charging up in the early morning and afternoon. 
  

Many water heaters have their own time switch, which would explain why yours doesn’t come on at the same time as the storage heaters even though they’re on the same switched circuit. If there is a time switch, make sure it’s not set to start heating up at around midnight, which is normal for many of them. 

You don’t need the water heater on for all of the 10 offpeak hours. If it were, you could end up wasting a lot of energy keeping the water at its target temperature at times when you just don’t need it. Depending on the size of the tank, it may be quite enough just to have it heating up during the overnight slot, so it’s ready for, say, morning showers. You may also be able to give it a boost during one or other of the daytime slots if somebody uses all the hot water so there’s none left for the washing up. This is all individual, so you’ll have to keep an eye on the tank’s performance to work out how to heat it most economically.

I’m afraid we can only make general suggestions here: everyone’s circumstances are different, so you may have to find a knowledgeable - and reliable - person to come and advise if you can’t work it out for yourself. 

You may find it less stressful to get away from PAYG and on to a Direct Debit account. It will cost about the same, but you’d be free of the hassle of topping up and of the danger of being cut off if you’re not able to top up for whatever reason. This can be arranged remotely; if you’re interested, just ask Support.

 Thanks.
    

I live in Perthshire, PH2 9 postcode area, work from home mainly and other half also home during the day. 
 

That means you are probably on this tariff:
  
 

Don’t take that as gospel, because there are other possibilities. If you are indeed on the Economy 10 plan, the offpeak times are 4:30am - 7:30am, 1:30pm - 4:30pm and  8:30pm - 12:30am (GMT). All your usage (not just for heating) will be at the lower rate in these periods.

The times will not be precise; the switch will in practice take place a few minutes later than the nominal ones, so you should be careful when deciding to turn on something power-hungry like the electric stove not to start too early.

This is probably your best bet for a household where the occupants are at home all day. The storage heaters are unlikely to reach full charge in a three-hour slot, but nevertheless it may be enough to keep the house warm until they get more charge in the next slot. You’ll just have to watch carefully, using a thermometer and keeping notes of your observations. You should eventually work out what’s best, and you may find that the late evening slot isn’t the most efficient time to be charging the heaters, because they might just keep the temperature up while you’re in bed and don’t really need it. If this turns out to be the case, you may be better off with, say, inexpensive fan heaters to provide comfortable heat when you need it in the evenings and just have the storage heaters charging up in the early morning and afternoon. 
  

... which makes me wonder if the water is set up differently somehow.
 

Many water heaters have their own time switch, which would explain why yours doesn’t come on at the same time as the storage heaters even though they’re on the same switched circuit. If there is a time switch, make sure it’s not set to start heating up at around midnight, which is normal for many of them. 

You don’t need the water heater on for all of the 10 offpeak hours. If it were, you could end up wasting a lot of energy keeping the water at its target temperature at times when you just don’t need it. Depending on the size of the tank, it may be quite enough just to have it heating up during the overnight slot, so it’s ready for, say, morning showers. You may also be able to give it a boost during one or other of the daytime slots if somebody uses all the hot water so there’s none left for the washing up. This is all individual, so you’ll have to keep an eye on the tank’s performance to work out how to heat it most economically.

I’m afraid we can only make general suggestions here: everyone’s circumstances are different, so you may have to find a knowledgeable - and reliable - person to come and advise if you can’t work it out for yourself. 

You may find it less stressful to get away from PAYG and on to a Direct Debit account. It will cost about the same, but you’d be free of the hassle of topping up and of the danger of being cut off if you’re not able to top up for whatever reason. This can be arranged remotely; if you’re interested, just ask Support.

 

Thanks that's very helpful.  Ultimately I am trying to get on to a direct debit account but that will require a change of meter so trying to understand what I am currently on to help inform future decisions.

One final question, where might I find a time switch for water if it does indeed exist? There is nothing obvious near meters or boost switches for the water, the tank itself is in the attic, is it possible the switch would be there? That seems unlikely. 

That’s more like it! Thanks. We now have two successful RTS migrants on E10 in N Scotland (region 17), with surprisingly identical MPANs. If only it were so simple! 
 

I’m sorry, but have we been talking at cross purposes? I got the impression that your RTS system had already been replaced with a smart meter. Is this not the case?

It may depend on the type of meter, but in many cases a smart meter can quite easily be switched to/from prepayment mode remotely, with no meter exchange required. 

Yes, it does. An immersion heater’s time switch will usually be in an obvious place; mine, for example, is next to the tank on the wall of the airing cupboard it lives in. Mine incorporates a boost switch as well as the clock. Again, you may have to ask someone both knowledgeable and reliable to help trace how your water heater is wired up, because it shouldn’t ever need to run at peak rates unless it needed a boost. That’s why it would normally be wired on the same circuit as the storage heaters. 
  

Perhaps it’s time to ask for photos of your system:

• Press a button on the meter to light up the display, then take a close-up of the meter so its display and all its markings are clear and legible. Note the time when the picture is take;
• Move back and take a photo of the whole backboard to show the cables from the service head (at the end of the main supply cable to the property, incorporating the main fuse) to the meter and the ones coming from the meter towards the consumer units;
• It might help to have photos of the consumer units themselves with the lids open, again clear enough to be able to read what each breaker is for (assuming they’re adequately labelled).     

This should remove any lingering confusion.

My Dads Meter Number - from the bill using new smart meter readings S02888100, it also has a meter serial number and the MPAN on the bill, this is in NE Scotland. 

Interestingly Octopus Energy have just released a new tariff for people with Electric Storage Heaters called Snug Octopus which is offering 6 hrs cheap rate at night 00:30 to 06:30 and a 1 hr cheap rate boost in the afternoon. Night rate for my dad’s address s 9p/kwh, day rate is 27.87p /kwh and standing charge is 60.87p per day. 

His E10 rates are off peak 20.25p / kwh, peak 24.92 /kwh and SC 59.93p per day. His last bill was over 90% at off peak. 

It says “If you have a second generation smart meter (SMETS2)” you can go on this tariff, it also says “Modern storage heaters that can connect to wifi or an app may not be compatible as some aren't controlled by the smart meter itself – but it's worth double-checking.”

Now I think the new THTC meters are not standard SMETS2 smart meters. But I don’t know - THTC never really gave any options for people on THTC to switch to a better tariff, and apologies to OVO for posting about a new tariff from a competitor, as OVO have always been a very good supplier since taking over from SSE. Anyway I am going to contact Octopus to see. 

Howdy ​@thelearner ,

Please rest assured that the House Rules on the OVO Forum fully support discussions regarding other suppliers, even if that means suggesting that someone else has a better deal than OVO it’s fully permitted here. As long as you’re not trying to make money out of it yourself with sneaky affiliate/commission/kickback tactics (especially undisclosed ones!) and you’re not just spamming referral links all over the Forum without adding something that actually benefits the Forum itself, you’re good to go.

We’ll never report, edit or take down posts that fit those criteria above as long as the rest of the post meets the House Rules.

Hope that helps!

So reply from Octopus is that Snug tariff is currently not working correctly and they are working to improve it. Then meter make/model needs to be eligible for it to work and they need to ensure they can connect to it. 

So it probably will happen but don’t know when. 

My mother is currrently on Simpler Energy - Superdeal 01. We need to know if there are any cheap rate periods during the day as she wants to heat her immersion heater when she wakes up and sometimes in the afternoon. 
 

Thanks 

Hi ​@Andysparrow ,

Please see the thread below for more details

I’m afraid Superdeal doesn’t offer any guarantee of cheap rates during the day - it’s mostly overnight. With that being said, it usually gives two hours of cheaper heating power during the afternoon for top-ups.

With that being said, please migrate your mother to Smart Meters ASAP. It is likely that Economy 7 or Economy 10 will be more appropriate and her current Meters WILL STOP WORKING from June 2025 onwards, which could leave her with no heating or hot water.

When you’re next with her, please call 0330 303 5063 and ask for Squad 70, or Live Chat via https://ovoenergy.com/help and they’ll set everything up for you.

The Priority Services Register might also be of interest: https://www.ovoenergy.com/register-for-priority-services

Spoke to OVO about my uncles allegedly 3ph supply om 18th Dec. They have all photos and engineer report and I got them to add my email to account and emailed them all the details - no appointments but assured they wiuld call with one. 

Emailed again 15th Jan no reply. Called yesterdaym straight through got an appointment for late Feb - confirmed 3 PH engineer booked, 

The setup intrigues me so going to try and be there for eng appointment.