Hi all, first post so apologies if any mistakes.

Firstly thanks seem to be in order to @Blastoise186 for your work.

I live in Aberdeenshire with THTC heating currently on the normal 24hr and Off-peak circuits. Ovo have booked us in for a Smart Meter install for later in the month and onto an Economy 10 tarriff. 

My understanding is that in a ‘normal’ install the off peak hours of Economy 10 etc would apply to the whole house circuit as most don't have an Off-peak circuit. This would break our heating. 

My question. When the THTC meter is replaced with an Economy 10 Smart Meter is the current Off-peak circuit wired to the meter second output so that the Off-peak circuit is only energised during the 10 off peak hours? 

Thanks in advance, Simon.

Hey @ByeeTHTC ,

My understanding is that OVO has considered that exact possibility. The way they can solve it is to basically wire up the meter so the physical wiring is identical to what you have now and then simply configure it in software to run the Off-Peak circuits only at the right times.

Thanks :) I wonder if there’s a way to be sure? If this isn't the case then it’s no solution. A previous tenant opted for PAYG so hopefully that won't complicate things too.

Thanks for your reply.

I have my sources. Very well placed contacts within OVO to be exact. :)

And there’s a small possibility I may have broken into OVO’s Smart Meter Lab a couple of months ago and fiddled about with the exact setup that’s about to be installed in your place…

It’s possible that an external contactor might be used in the new setup, but that’d be controlled by the meter anyway so it’d act as if it were part of the meter itself.

Hah, perfect thank you. Apologies for suspicion it’s only as the solution has been so long coming and failure will make for a cold winter with a disabled wife.

An update on my situation…

I previously sought advice on this forum and elsewhere regarding my request to replace my THTC meter with a regular smart meter and get off the THTC tariff. I raised a case and also a formal complaint.

Last week, I was advised to "contact us to have the meters either removed or upgraded to smart anytime."

Fantastic news, right?

Except...

Today, I was contacted by an Advanced Complaints Advisor (or someone with a similar title) who informed me that I cannot have a smart meter. Apparently, there's an "infrastructure problem."

When asked for details, the advisor couldn't explain the specific issue, but the bottom line is I can't get a smart meter.

I suspect the problem is related to the RTS signal, or its replacement the “Smart Metering Wide Area Network”, which I’m guessing isn't available at my location.

This likely means any new smart meter wouldn’t be able to send readings to Ovo.

If that's the case, why can't I get a smart meter, go onto a single tariff, and manually submit readings?

If I understand correctly, if your home is outside the Smart Metering Wide Area Network, you're out of luck. No smart meter for you.

The advisor mentioned that the target for resolving this "infrastructure problem" is June 2025.

To tell the truth, I’ve had so many variations in the information I’m being supplied with I have no idea who or what to believe anymore.

In the meantime, I'm stuck with a tariff I don't want, paying significantly higher prices than I could get elsewhere in the market, and with no option to change suppliers because I have two meters.

BTW, the neighbour up the road has a smart meter. It works just fine.

Time to contact the Ombudsman?

Just spoke to someone in Squad70.

He tells me that right now (and for the foreseeable future) NO THTC meters are currently being replaced because of a technical issue that he could not describe to me.

He said 100,000 people either are (i.e. have a problem with their smart meter) or will be potentially affected (i.e. won’t get a smart meter).

So, now I’m unsure whether I can’t get a meter because I’m out of the Smart Metering Wide Area Network or because of this other, unspecified problem?

It’ll be fixed by June 2025.

Hey @monster9, 

I've raised this with our infrastructure team in charge of the rollout and communications we've been putting out for them. They've looked at your case and advised that our path for you has stayed the same. They are currently rolling this out to customers, which began this month. As you can understand, this will require many resources, such as engineers, to complete, so they're rolling this out steadily across the affected customers.

If you live in a load-managed area, the team is still working towards a solution but is confident that they'll have news to share soon. We'll again update the Forum.

I understand that you've proactively contacted our Customer Care teams, and they've sadly given incorrect advice, for which I can only apologise. We're going to work with our frontline customer-facing teams so that they have a better understanding of the rollout and can avoid any misadvice going forward.

We, as the Forum Team, have been pushing for this for a few months as a transparent approach to updating on RTS/THTC issues. This has yet to be communicated to other teams; hence, we need to work on our internal communications to all work as one.

What this means for you and others:
You'll be contacted shortly to let you know it's time for your meter to be exchanged. The team is working through the list as efficiently as they can, so we ask you to bear with us a little longer, and we'll work on resolving this for you.

I hope this helps, and again, we're sorry for any inconvenience.

Thanks for this information.  Can I ask how we will be contacted? I ask this because my online OVO account now has the option of booking a smart meter installation whereas I previously did not have that option.  The webpage states
 

Please call us as soon as you can

Your meter setup is a little different to other homes, so we need to book you in on the phone.

Please call us on 0333 034 1622

As you can see this contradicts what you advise above.  Do we have to call the phone number shown or will OVO contact us by email, letter phone etc.?

The initial letter/email will invite you to contact OVO - you then need to make contact to sort things out.

Being offered a smart meter.

Currently on simpler energy plan THTC. As I don’t have smart meter yet cannot access ovo app as doesn’t support these old meters so have to use online account. 
question is once the smart meter is installed how do I arrange a new energy plan as obviously the current energy plan will become obsolete 

looking at the online account there is nowhere for you to change to a new energy plan once smart meter installed 

‘’under plan’’ online account it only shows your current energy plan ie THTC 

Do I have to contact ovo energy after the meter is installed and if so what time period after the meter is installed do I contact ovo to arrange new energy plan to suite the smart meter 

As part of the upgrade, everything will be done in one go - including selecting a new energy plan.

Please call OVO on 0330 303 5063 or the number in the letter/email to arrange this.

Cheers Blastoise 186

I think the advice is to wait until the new meter is installed and working and then compare the plan it’s set to to any others that may be available to you. Since there are only a few days left of the current price cap period, the rates offered for 1 October onwards will be the ones to look at. These may figure on OVO’s tariff pages a few days (often a couple of weeks) before then, so keep a close eye on them. 

The best plan to go for depends on what sort of tariff (rates and timings) you’re currently enjoying, if it matches your requirements. For example, Economy 10 allows for a daytime boost for storage heaters at the cheaper rate, while Economy 7 doesn’t. The ‘cheap’ rate varies a great deal from plan to plan, so you’d better have to hand the numbers for your actual consumption in kWh over the past year* at both peak and offpeak times in order to be able to compare the various plans on offer. 

You can see all of OVO’s tariffs on this page: Our prices | OVO Energy, while using the Get a quote page gives you a simple comparison between recommended plans. Beware that the rates on the plans page are exclusive of VAT while those on the quote page include VAT. 

You may be able to pick a likely-looking plan before the meter exchange, in which case you could tell Support what you want. There’s no guaranteeing that the message will get all the way to those involved, but it’s worth trying. 
  

*  Dig out your latest bill and the one for the same period a year ago. Subtract the latest closing meter readings from the ones from last year to find the annual consumption. 

Hi

OVO are wanting to replace our thtc setup with two register smart meter. We are being offered a choice of two or three tariffs ( depending on who we speak to). Economy 8 , 9 or 10.  Out storage radiators are ‘dumb’. No way of controlling the times when they will operate at the radiators.

Q1: how are the tariff off peak times setup?

• is it a different meter type for each tariff 
   
• does the supplier remotely configure the meter as part of the installation process

Q2 : are the storage radiators wired into the meter in such a way that the only come on (charge) during the off peak times

These are pretty basic questions but we are getting conflicting answers from the RTS switching team

I’ll try.

Q1. The times when the two registers record usage are controlled by settings in the meter itself. You should be able to find out from Support what the offpeak times are; they vary a bit, and given the circumstances in Scotland, they may even vary from place to place there. There are currently three or four types of tariff: one called THTC, then Economy 7, Economy 9 and Economy 10. The numbers indicate - perhaps not precisely - the number of offpeak hours in any day. With Economy 7, the offpeak hours are all during the night, while the other two usually include one or more daytime offpeak periods.

• The same type of meter can be set up initially to whatever plan you decide on. 
• This initial set-up may be carried out before or during the installation.
  Because some customers are in locations that make communication with the smart meter network difficult, I think it’s likely that there will be as little reliance on being able to communicate as possible when setting the meter up.

Q2 . The type of meter being deployed can feed two separate circuits, one which is always live and the other which is only live during offpeak hours. Your storage heaters (and possibly your water heater) will be wired to the second circuit. The timing of the second circuit’s on and off periods is governed by a separate control in the bottom of the meter; it will normally be set to the same times as the register change I wrote about under Q1. 

Unlike many THTC arrangements, all usage in offpeak periods is recorded on the offpeak register and charged at offpeak rates. You should remember this when deciding when to use other power-hungry equipment like electric showers, tumble dryers, washing machines and cookers.

You should ask for precise details of the plans on offer if you’re to be able to make a reasoned decision. For each plan, you need to know:

You’ll also need to know how many kWh you’ve used at the various rates over the past year if you want to get an idea of the comparative costs. It won’t be easy to calculate, but we’re here to help if you need it.

Thanks for that. Confirms how I thought it would work. Another couple of questions;

Q3 :  the second control at the bottom of the meter you refer to in your answer.  Who sets these times ?  I presume these have to be a subset of the tariff off peak times ?
 

Q4 :  if the communications don’t work between the meter and OVO, will the meter still be able to control the off peak times ie switch on the storage radiators durin the off peak hours ?  I realise we would have to submit readings manually each month.

Q1.  The ‘second control’ is officially called the ALCS, Auxiliary Load Control Switch. Its calendar will normally be set to the same times as the Time of Use table that determines when to switch registers from peak to offpeak and vice versa. There is a built-in start-time offset of a few minutes just to make sure that not every storage heater in town suddenly switches on simultaneously. I’ve not discovered whether the same offset (a random no. of seconds unique to the meter) also applies at switch-off, but it ought not to.
Storage heaters (and immersion heaters) have a thermostat to prevent them overheating, so it’s unlikely that they will be going full blast for the whole of the offpeak period: they just switch the charging circuit off when they’re up to maximum.

Q2.  Yes. The ALCS isn’t at all dependent on the WAN for its operation (unlike RTS), although if there is no WAN connection, its calendar can’t be changed remotely. 
The meter should operate normally in every respect even though it can’t call home. 

As regards taking meter readings, you might get used to doing this a bit more often than you’re used to, perhaps weekly, just so you can see how it’s all working. At the very least, you should take and submit a reading in the morning of the first day of each billing period (one month, which with any luck will start on the first of each month).  This will make sure that your bills are accurate. If you also submit readings more frequently, the estimated usage you would see in your online account will be more accurate. 

Thank you very much.  Very very useful information.  Much apprecited

Hi @Arturharvey,

It seems one of our forum volunteers has already stopped by to answer your questions. Hope it was helpful. 

Please let us know if there’s anything else you’d like to know.

HI - new to commenting here but have been following the ‘saga’ of THTC 2-meter replacement with great interest - and dread ! - as 4th October is scheduled smart-meter installation day for us.

I can’t say I’m looking forward to it at all - one meter,two rates,E10 tariff - fingers and toes thoroughly crossed for an engineer who can do the job competently  AND explain what’s been done and how to understand & manage the future. 

The meters here were SSE installed (upgrades ?) in 2003 - long before our time in residence - and we’ve “managed” the THTC setup reasonably well during our time. Just hoping that the switch will NOT be a disaster or cause major disruption to our heating/hot-water setup.

I can’t say I’ve much confidence at all in advance of the task ahead … but will be back here to describe our story … good or bad … soon.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here so far on this topic : reading it all has helped  … but so many unknowns and negative experiences don’t augur well . We shall soon see ... !

There’s already been a ton of successful THTC → Smart upgrades though, but those customers don’t tend to post here to tell us.

It’s not all doom and gloom! :)

Hey @Dunny-side-A 

Welcome to the Forum.

As one of our volunteers has already mentioned, we’ve had lots of successful exchanges, but those do tend to go unspoken about as they don’t have anything to raise about the installation. We do tend to see those who’ve faced some kind of struggle but hopefully yours will go smoothly.

Do keep us updated as many in the community will find it very helpful or interesting to know how it goes. 

I see that OFGEM have issued a press release about the replacement of RTS meters with Smart meters today and BBC Scotland even led with this item on its news bulletin.  Here is the link

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-release/energy-sector-taskforce-unites-tackle-radio-teleswitch-challenge?utm_medium=email&utm_source=dotMailer&utm_campaign=Daily-Alert_03-10-2024&utm_content=Energy+sector+taskforce+unites+to+tackle+Radio+Teleswitch+challenge&dm_i=1QCB,8QUYV,6OM1R8,10CJ29,1

and another

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/end-radio-teleswitch-service-rts-what-were-doing-help

You will see that they have a new industry wide group to deal with issues and problems with the roll-out and installation of smart meter replacements.  If you have continuing problems that cannot be resolved by your supplier then your next course of action is to get in touch with the new action group noted in the press release.  OFGEM admit that in Scotland alone they have almost 200,000 meters to replace by June next year and going with the present replacement rate it will be 2028 before they are all replaced. This release is to again push the industry (not just OVO) to get their finger out and get on with it, a problem they have known about for years but continually dug their head in the sand.

That last sentence sums it all up really!