RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service) Shutdown Update

Hey ​@thelearner 

Thanks for the update, glad to hear you’ve got an appointment booked in.

Let us know how that goes.

An appeal to successful RTS migrants
 

When your shiny new smart meter has settled down completely a few weeks after installation, your supply will probably have been allocated a new MPAN. The ID part of the MPAN should be the same as the one for the old non-RTS meter, but some of the other figures may have changed. An MPAN consists of “S” followed by 21 digits in six groups, and you’ll see the full thing on your bills. It looks like this:
 

 

I’d be very interested to see examples of the new MPANs, so if anyone can be bothered to reply here with theirs, I’d be grateful. An MPAN is considered PII (Personally Identifiable Information), which a criminal could use for nefarious purposes. However, it’s only the MP ID number that is traceable to a particular address, and I’m not interested in that. The first 10 digits (in this example, 00 111 222 13) will be quite enough. I’d also want to know the name of the tariff you’re now on, e.g. Simpler Energy - Economy 7 - 01/10/2024 (most probably Economy 7 or Economy 10, but there will be others). If you’re no longer an OVO customer, the name of your current supplier would be welcome, too.

I’ll happily explain my interest in this if anyone cares! Basically, I’m trying to find out how these new meters are set up to match the tariff. That way, we may have a way of spotting why a particular meter isn’t performing as expected - e.g. switching tariff rates at the wrong times.

Over to you! 

 

Mine is 02 88 100 17.  I am in Perthshire, Scotland and on Economy 10.  Meter installed 4th November and all worked correctly since installation.

Well Firedog here is an odd one for you.  I had my new smartmeter installed on 28th November to replace my 2 meter THTC set up.  My postcode is AB33 8 in NE Scotland. I cannot give you the section of my MPAN as it has not been added to my bills yet. I can only give you the details which OVO have recorded on the online account history of my readings and that is the PII.

Everything was set up correctly on Simpler Energy - Economy 10 tariff with switch times being correct and the electricity tariff rates being correct for Economy 10.  On 1st January however when the tariff rates changed I discovered that I was now being charged THTC rates even though my times were still Economy 10 and my account said I was on Simpler Energy - THTC.  I have also discovered that while my new meter is registered on my account the old RTS meter is still showing on my account (MPAN 02 529 16 17 2) . I highlighted this to OVO on Jan 2 but despite repeated calls by me to seek a resolution I have got nowhere.

What then does my MPAN state should be in place at my home?

I can’t really make any sensible comment, I’m afraid. I’d just say that replacing a complex multi-meter system with a single smart meter is an incredibly complex process, far more so than just upgrading a single meter. Changes have to be made all over OVO’s systems and on the national databases. Theyr’e not all automatic, and they take time. It may also matter in which order they’re done, so there are multiple opportunities for something to go wrong when it’s all happening under great pressure as the RTS shutdown looms ever closer.

In your situation, I think I would just back off and wait for things to take their course. What is most important is that meter readings are getting through and being recorded on your account. If they are, you don’t have much to worry about so long as you have an idea of what you’re actually spending, even if you have to do the sums yourself. If you’re paying by Direct Debit, and it’s enough to cover your costs, all the rest will eventually come out in the wash. If you’re not, be sure to salt away enough to cover the bill when it turns up.  

By all means keep an eye on your account to spot any changes, but I wouldn’t be bothering support at all if you’re happy with the way the meter’s working.

Just like to add to the PH2 person that here in PH16 have same thing. Hot water on at different times than storage heaters and we have no timers that I can see. I wonder if it’s something that Scottish Hydro fitted for us? Do we have 2 RTS? 

​@Karenergy Welcome back! The last time we heard from you, you explained how the engineer who came to exchange your meter threw up his hands in horror and left without doing anything. Have you got any further?

Your RTS system probably has three different rates: Peak, Offpeak and Heating. The Heating bit is what is controlled by the RTS, charging the storage heaters up when SSEN feel like it for probably 7 hours a day, not necessarily in a contiguous block. The water heater may be wired to work at offpeak rates and times, which might be midnight to 7 am. Only you can tell, but I don’t think an arrangement like this would be unusual.

We are on THTC rate like many others. There are only 2 rates on this tariff.  While I agree that RTS controls the storage heaters I’m confused about what is controlling our main immersion heater if not RTS. It is on at similar but not the same times to the heaters. We have only the most basic (old) equipment. I called OVO last week as fed up getting ‘urgent’ warnings. Was told that there is a hold up because of problems with ‘the signal’ and just to wait and ignore messages….

Thank you - that is what we have (meter readings 1 = ‘Peak’; 2 = ’Off-peak’; 3 = ‘Heating’). I’m having difficulty understanding exactly what will happen with the meter switch. The wiring from our current meter looks like this:

I’m not certain if those three circuits match to the meters/rates and what will happen to them on meter switch. I’m guessing that the new meter will just have 24hr supply and timed supply so maybe these ‘water heater’ and ‘storage heating’ circuits will be merged into a timed supply depending on the Tariff/Meter selected. It also sounds like the new meter and tariff are tied together and Economy 7 or 10 cannot easily be interchanged if we find that we need some daytime heat on the timed circuit. Have I got this about right?

The big difference between a THTC system (if that’s what you have) and a smart metered one is that there is no longer any 24-hour heating supply. All electricity used is measured as it passes through the meter and recorded on either the peak or the offpeak register, depending solely on the time. There is a device built on to the meter that controls the supply to, say, storage and water heaters that are most economical when they only consume electricity at offpeak rates. You could perhaps leave this switched circuit to get on with the job of supplying the heaters and trust to the heaters’ thermostats to stop gobbling power when they’ve got enough. 

Meanwhile, everything else has power available all the time, but if it’s used at offpeak times, it’s billed at the offpeak rate. This is why a tariff like Economy 10 can be a good replacement for THTC. You get two offpeak slots during waking hours which it makes sense to exploit for greedier appliances like cookers, washing and drying machines, hoovers and irons, and also for electric showers and direct heaters where appropriate.

There will be some lifestyle adjustments to be made, but all in all it should be possible to get comfortable at no greater cost than THTC. 

It may be possible to switch from one ToU tariff to another, but it won’t necessarily be straightforward. I wouldn’t bank on it; I’d do the sums in advance to get it right first time.

Thanks, by the way, for the photo. It didn’t help much, I’m sorry to say. There are three live cables coming from the meter, so I suspect that the thinner one is simply a load switch for an external contactor, for example for the water heater. One of the thicker ones will be the constant supply to things like lights, sockets and kitchen equipment, while the other will be the switched (‘offpeak’) supply to the storage heaters. This arrangement could be replicated exactly by the new smart meter.    

Many thanks for the reply. Reading through some posts it sounds like THTC is a Scottish thing and we are near Southampton but apparently configured similarly in our flat. We have some storage heaters that are older and have no thermostat so we’ll upgrade to something more modern when we can afford it. Hopefully we can keep these working as they are now when the meter is changed. 

Yes, there are similar arrangements in your region, e.g. Flexiheat and Superdeal.  There are minor variations (there may not be a 24-hour heating supply at lower rates, for example, just lots of hours each day during which power is delivered for, say, 7 hours at times determined by SSEN via the RTS). I think most of what I wrote earlier applies equally well. 

I live in a really old house, cottage, with rooms downstair and attic upstairs with a proper stair. My meter set up is on the bulkhead above the stairs. I’ve had three different engineers visit me so far, look at the setup, realise they can’t reach just by standing on the stair and telling me I’ll need another appointment when someone with a ladder or platform can be used safely.  They take lots of photos, update their job tickets and go away. Then I rebook an appointment, explaining about the access issues and that the engineer needs to come equipped to sort out access, then they arrive and so does groundhog day.  Any tips on how I get an OVO engineer with the necessary access equipment rather than same-old-same-old-can’t-reach-book-again-and-it’ll-all-be-fine. Very frustrating.

Hi, I would nag and keep nagging the engineers/installation department, ask to speak to a Manager and explain your plight, at work we have a water meter that needed replacing 5 years ago and every time a person comes to sort the meter they leave saying that there unable to change it, it`s farcical.

Just keep asking for some one that actually knows what there doing before there next visit. 

​@kirsmith this thread and post in particular (tagged) might be helpful 

In this day and age of much increased Health & Safety these issues such as working at height poses a real problem. It may be that they will now need a tower rather that just a ladder or being able to stand on a stool/chair to reach your meter location. The latter not of course allowed now!

As mention in this thread you need to make OVO very aware when booking the access requirements they will need to meet. It’s not good for you as a customer to have wait for a repeat visit. Neither is it good for OVO sending out an engineer who then cannot complete the job.

We live in the North of Scotland and are on the THTC tariff.  We’ve been aware of the RTS switch-off for a number of years and have found this post, and it’s predecessors, both invaluable and enlightening, compared to the official communications.  Thanks have to be given to the regular industry contributors for this.

As background, our house is about 35 years old and THTC was installed during construction.  Accordingly, we have an external meter cupboard.

We booked our slot for about five weeks ago, and were given a four-hour window.  Additionally, I have to praise the engineer (he was from SMS rather than OVO).  He called at the weekend before the appointment to introduce himself and also ask if he could advance the appointment, as they’d had a cancellation for earlier that day.  On leaving the prior appointment we got a text which allowed tracking off his van, he started about 40 minutes away so we had plenty of warning.  The only strange thing was the reliance upon Satnav and post codes (with the latter of only general use in our rural area!).

During the appointment he indicated that there was a problem with our setup.  He was extremely clear in his communication during this time.  He then took some photos and spent over an hour on the phone to his technical team.  Eventually he left saying it couldn’t be done!  He did, however, comment that there was no issue with signal strength.

I thought I’d post here given the specific reason for the abort.  As I mentioned our setup is an external meter cupboard. However, the RTS switch itself was fitted within the house. Apparently, there would have been insufficient space within the meter box for it.  The engineer said that technically the new meter could be installed but it would require a second device within the house.  OVO have apparently said that this is not acceptable.  The only alternative would be to try feeding additional cabling through the house wall.  Given how far advanced we are with the installation program I’m astonished that we would be the first house with this setup, particularly as Scottish Hydro were promoting THTC for new builds in the 1980’s.  

Since then I’ve spoken to the support line.  They are friendly but not technical experts and so can’t really give any useful information.  What I have been told is “don’t worry about it, the engineers are working on it”.  Also “please just disregard any further reminders for meter swap-out as OVO will contact you when they are ready”.  So while the words are reassuring there was no insight into timing or progress.  We’ve now had an “Urgent” reminder to book an appointment.

I’m really trying to get some kind of feel / reassurance as to the likelihood of a fix within the timescale given, as I say, that I can’t imagine that we have a unique physical setup. 

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any insight you can give!

I’m sorry to hear you’ve ended up in this situation. It won’t be any comfort, but you’re not alone. There seems to be a problem in cases where the RTS and the meter aren’t adjacent, e.g. in different rooms. The cabling to and from the RTS will presumably have to be reworked, because a smart meter only has two line feeds out - one for the switched (offpeak) circuit, and the other for everything else. I’m not sure what the ‘second device within the house’ your engineer referred to; was this an OVO engineer in a green-liveried van, or from one of the contractors working all over Scotland to beat the RTS deadline?

In any case, post a couple of clear photos showing the meter cupboard and the teleswitch in situ, showing the cables to and from them. We may be able to find someone to make sense of them.

Hi ​@Pollowick,

Have you had a chance to speak to our Support Team yet? When you do by all means link them this Forum topic if it will help as there’s some really useful advice from ​@Firedog. Hope this is fixed for you soon!

Morning ​@EddyInverness, I hope you’re well.

I really can understand your worry with the appointment abort and, as ​@Firedog has said, you’re not alone in this situation, and not alone with the particular setup you have. The back office teams working on the RTS shutdown are well aware of the setups where there are large distances between the teleswitch and the meters, and they’re working on a fix for this. It may be that some sort of remote device will need to be installed to get everything working. At the moment it really is a case of having to wait to be told what OVO can do for you - but I really do understand that this is worrying and frustrating. We’ll be in contact when a fix is in place. 

I also just want to thank you for your kind words about our great Forum community, and also about the SMS engineer - we do really value this feedback! If you could get back with the photos ​@Firedog’s asked for that would be grand, and we’ll of course update you if there’s any news from our side. This is a huge shift within the Industry but we’ve got great people working internally on this and fixes are being planned and put in place for a variety of eventualities.

​@kirsmith good morning and welcome to the OVO Forum!

I’m sorry to hear of what’s happening here and, to add to the already helpful replies on this thread, I just want to let you know that you should ask our Support Team to log this as a complaint. The fact that you keep getting appointments aborted for the same reason definitely justifies a complaint, as it sounds like the relevant notes aren’t being added to the bookings when they’re made. If you log a complaint in this way you’ll be given a complaint reference number, and will be contacted by a dedicated complaints handler who will remain in contact with you until this is resolved. It might be that the Advisors you’ve been speaking to are new or lacking in experience when it comes to booking more technical jobs, so I think it’d be good to get this escalated.

When you do hear back from the complaints handler, make sure to tell them to refer to the previous job reports, as these will contain all the photos and information required to get this booked in properly. I’m sorry - it sounds like you’ve had a string of bad luck with these job bookings - it’s rare but I’ve seen it happen before. I hope we can get this all sorted for you soon! You should hopefully find the thread ​@BPLightlog has sent very usefu.

Thanks everyone for the quick replies

Firedog

Here are a couple of photos as requested. If they aren’t clear enough, or show what you want, please let me know. 

One thing to note in the photos is that I think the teleswitch is actually a meter, although the metering function is not being used. This was installed as a replacement after our existing switch stopped switching!

I think the second device the engineer mentioned was to be some kind of wireless device. I got the sense that it may also be SIM based, but wouldn’t guarantee that I interpreted him correctly.  

Regarding the line feeds out I can see the logic of just two. I thought he mentioned that the meter planned had five, but I may have misunderstood what he meant.  

The engineer was from SMS, rather than OVO.

Thanks all

Who on earth would put in that Horstmann RTS/THTC Meter unit and just stick a label over it?!?!?!

In that case, if you could post those photos we can definitely check. Three-Phase THTC is extremely rare, but I’ve heard of one or two installs where it’s a thing.

 

So after phoning OVO, ensuring they had all the photos and info I have posted here, sent by email to OVO, and the original meter engineers report from 02/12/24, the latest engineer turned up today for the 2nd appointment. Very nice guy, subcontracted by OVO and from London. Took 1 look and said I cannot do this - not certified it is 3 phase. He said he would feed all this back to OVO and ensure next time an engineer came they could do this job, which was what was supposed to happen this time. 

I will phone OVO again tomorrow. This house is on a development with lots of identical houses - guessing built in 70’s - it is a standard domestic house - cannot see anything that would have required a 3 phase supply here. 

I might actually enquire with the DNO to get them to confirm what type of supply this is. 

Looks like a polyphase service fuse though - that might be the trigger which blocked the job.

Also been monitoring my dads bills this winter on the new E10 tariff and comparing with last winter - seem to be about 20% lower. 

The engineer definitely did not say anything about this - he said 3 phase supply. And the OVO engineers have already looked at all these photos - well that’s what we have been told. Todays OVO engineer also said 3 phase engineers were in short supply.