Smart meter installed as Economy 10 - how will this affect my cylinder water supply?

Update at 7.45am, tariff has changed to peak, the symbols have switched back to what you said ​@Firedog , the red light flashes every 15 seconds or so from what i can tell on the meter. IHD looks ok. 

Thanks, but …

We’re not really any further forward. All we know from these observations is that the heating circuit was active at 06:15 but not at 07:45, clearly established by the load control icons and the fact that at least one heating element was busily drawing something over 3.3kW at 06:49. That could have been the water immersion heater or a storage heater.

Sadly, this would have been the case whether the load control switch was configured correctly or not. The real clincher will be after midnight as I suggested, and I’m expecting you find that the tariff shown on the IHD changes at 00:40. What I hope you won’t find that at that time is the heaters charging up and the load control switches showing LC1 LC2 like they did early this morning.

The red light flashing on the meter is its impulse counter. It flashes faster when there’s a bigger current passing through the meter, so this is what you’d expect to see when the load is 3.57 kW as your IHD was showing. It will do the same when you boil the kettle or make toast. At other times when not much is happening, the IHD will show a much smaller power draw (in Watts if it’s less than 1000, otherwise in kW), and you’d get bored waiting for the red light to flash. 

Flashing at 15-second intervals is 4 impulses per minute, or 240 per hour. That means that the instantaneous load when you were watching was 240W, quite reasonable if there are a few things running like fridge, freezer, lights and so on. 

That makes sense ​@Firedog I'll have a meter stakeout tonight to have a look at the IHD and the meter itself. Ovo still say they don't know anything til roughly 6 weeks etc, so Latif the engineer kindly messaged what he thought our area's timings were and the set up was for. I'm still not sure if the immersion kicks in on the 2 other off peaks but will look tonight.

20.50 when should be in off peak mode, these symbols are on, tariff correct on IHD and the display on the meter itself. I thought this should show the other symbol during off peak guys? Again, will look at 00.40ish etc too.

Amd it's certainly not heating the cylinder/water on the PM and evening slots, enough hot water for a bath this evening, no other hot water used today.

Ok ​@Firedog ​@Blastoise186 hope this helps, and see pics above just from earlier. Looks like it is doing what you said it could be, charging on the peak....last pic here taken just around 00.41

OK, thank you so much for going to those lengths. It is, I’m afraid, just as I feared: the tariff is properly set in your meter to Economy 10, but its load control switch is operating on the Economy 7 schedule. I don’t suppose you noted the time when the IHD turned red, did you? I’m guessing it was at around 00:09.

This is apparently not unusual with new installations, but as you can see, it’s not the simplest thing in the world to establish it. The fix ought to be easy, too, although some customers have found that problematical, too.  Let’s hope for the best.

Please call Support and ask them to send the ECAUL request to your meter to update your ALCS calendar to match the tariff timings. It might be best to use the webchat option; that way, you’re able to upload photos of your meter as proof of the misconfiguration. They will need to know the precise time you took the last photo - perhaps 00:45? 

Alternatively, and a bit cheekily, if you have Latif’s number, you might call him and explain what we’ve found; with any luck, he’ll offer to call his contacts at the mother ship and get them to do the deed.

At the time of the IHD photos, you were drawing more than 13 kW. That is enough to charge three storage heaters and the hot water tank at once, and until 04:39, you’ll be being billed at peak rate. 13 kW x 4.5 hrs at 27.2 p/kWh is over £15, when it should be £12.40. And that’s just for one night.

Let’s get the meter properly set up first, then we can do some sums to work out what this switching error is costing you.

Sleep tight!

Thanks ​@Firedog that's great, i sure will reach out today. I know Latif is up in this neck of the woods for a while longer but don't want to presume he's free or keep bugging. But will message him first. I appreciate things take time to synch but looks like we'll be paying over the odds for a while if so, and it's not configured properly. I'll drop him a line, ring support if needs be and if you guys don't mind, keep you posted, many thanks again!

And yes correct, it was around 10 past midnight the IHD turned red

Also need to get to the bottom of why the cylinder isn't heating completely based on even if it's functioning on e7 schedule, as was fine before the switch, but even if heating on peak through the night it should heat enough to last us as before?

Hey ​@Albot81 

Sorry to see this is ongoing.

Firedog has left the perfect advice here to contact the Support Team so they can send the ECAUL request. 

We’ve got some related topics on the Forum where this has fixed the issue:

Let us know how you get on with that.

​@Abby_OVO thanks, Latif has kindly contacted the 'mothership', he says that it had failed on their end after he'd done his installation and tests, which he wasn't notified of. Unsure as well why takes 6 weeks to clarify especially if all incorrect and paying a fair whack more in the meantime. Once he's heard back (i sent pictures as advised ​@Firedog ) he'll let me know. Then will need to hopefully see if adjusts correctly, heats the cylinder as before - I'm in mind to contact a local sparky to check the wiring/components to the cylinder itself also. But is there a way for reimbursement in the future if takes a while to sort? It's a lot of investigating and i don't know how folk who were maybe unable to reach out to support etc, and stay up watching meters/IHDs would manage situations like myself and plenty others have. And only through very kind and helpful advice from yourself and other contributors i don't overlook that!

It’s good to hear that Latif’s still on your case, but not so good that the configuration failed. 
  

That six-week period is just an indication of how long it might take for everything to fall into place after a complex meter exchange. It’s not just getting the meter working properly, which could take a few days. There are all sorts of changes, many of them manual, that have to be made in other OVO departments (like Billing) and also at the national database of meter information. This last stage is vital, because it underpins a lot of the other changes, and it involves third parties like data collection companies that pass details on to the database management company. So we can’t really talk about meter readings, usage figures or bills until everything is in place. The meter configuration may be a simple matter of just trying again to do what failed first time round - that often works, as I know from personal experience.   

It may come to that if things aren’t working now as they were before the meter exchange. It looks as if power should be available to the water heater for 7 hours from 00:09, and that’s plenty to heat the whole thing up. Did you check that the red lamp was lit when you did your other sleuthing in the wee small hours this morning? It’s really only the tank thermostat that could interrupt the heating process, so that’s a potential source of a fault.

Was the top of the tank not hot when you got up this morning? Why do you think it’s not heating up fully?

You can use the boost box to give a couple of hours’ extra heating during the afternoon and evening offpeak slots if necessary. The IHD will show you how long the immersion heater stays on for if you do do this - it would be interesting to learn if an afternoon boost lasted the whole maximum two-hour period.
  

Of course you shouldn’t be out of pocket for expenses rising from a fault with your installation. I’ll happily help you quantify the extra you may have been billed for when the time comes. This may not be until the end of next month, by which time you may have had your first bill under the new arrangement.

​@Firedog thankyou. That all makes sense fully appreciate. Spoke to OVO just to query and got through to the correct team, the very helpful chap went off to speak to the team, Squad 70 i think who seemed to understand the issues from your helpful advice and were hoping to push it all through again over the next 72 hours, and if no joy to contact back.

Yes, regarding the cylinder - the boost element I'll try properly today during off peak or for two hours or so to see if working properly, like you say I'm not sure why it wouldn't now be heating effectively through the night, regardless of whether peak or off peak. The chap from support said it could be that it isn't heating effectively due to changes, tripping an element or something. It is due for servicing, a local plumber did it for us last year, and is due in a couple of weeks. I know last year he cleaned out filters etc, checked thermostats etc, but said anything outwith that will be an electrician to check connections etc, I'll give him the heads up before he comes too. As ever, thankyou!

Good news, thanks 🙂 Keep us posted!

Good old Latif and his mothership connections! He's been back to reset after speaking to his work/hub, to reset a few things at their end and recheck. Like say know its early days and will see is heating the cylinder efficiently, the IHD shows red which i know means everything on (during corrected off peak hours) as is heating the immersion and the storage heaters (plus usual appliances etc). I'm going to refresh myself with all things Quantum HHR dimplex heaters and how they function again!

Both taken at 20.44 at off peak charging.

Brilliant! I’m so pleased it all worked out in the end. Enjoy, and stay patient for your online account etc. to be set up and ready to help you manage your energy and save money.
 

Thanks all and ​@Firedog yes I'll be patient, as checking account on the app now ots updated the plan to economy 10, but suddenly says we're 900 pounds in debit, from being in credit just prior to installation on the 17th! So hopefully that will all work itself out. I know we're high usage but always sent monthly updated readings etc and kept on top of that side of things.

Hey ​@Albot81 

Glad to hear you’ve made progress with that! Thanks for coming back with that update!

Do pop back anytime if you have any further updates or questions.😊

​@Abby_OVO i have submitted a complaint today regarding some bizarre and dubious readings that were documented in the days prior to the smart meter being installed, this is after 3 days of being told it's been rectified and showing on the acct. 900 pounds worth of energy in 6 days? Latif the most helpful of guys before he went back down to Wales tomorrow, rang me today to check, and was baffled about this, as the readings sent by him (and my actual ones in days prior) were not logged despite being rung through, and some hugely inflated numbers were documented the day before his arrival instead. I was reassured by the call centre yesterday that the correct readings were now on board, and it did seem a bit unbelievable to them too. Correct readings confirmed by Latif, but still day 3, after 'billing investigation' that we owe 900 quid. Bonkers.

Also i included that i have had no discussion with support, despite asking, that we were using 6 days on the wrong tariff, peak times etc.

I can only repeat what I wrote earlier: please be patient! It can take weeks for everything to settle down, including billing.

You say “we owe 900 quid”. Have you had a bill for this amount? Or are you looking at figures in your online account that will still be in a state of flux as the many changes that have to take place filter through the systems? 

Once everything is in place, you can start making sure that the closing readings for the old meters and the opening ones for the new one are the ones Latif noted down and reported. He should also have left a Meter Exchange Label by the meter with those details on it. For peace of mind, make sure you have a photo of it salted away somewhere safe. I wish I had - mice ate mine.

Once the exchange readings have been applied to a bill, you can start calculating how much extra you will have been billed because your heaters were charging at peak rates some of the time. 

Thanks ​@Firedog he did indeed write a label and have kept away from rodents so far! I will, i know it's just away from Latif and you guys, i haven't found the support services very good at communicating or listening to concerns really. It just shows on the account on thr app, yes as a Bill was generated for Jan into Feb 13 which amends to differing numbers prior to the smart meter, although they were correctly inputted as actual on the 10th/13th Feb. Again then going to the 19th Feb, this was before the smart meter installation the day after, and numbers that were way above the ones Latif sent through the day after. Hence my confusion, it isn't so much after install, as is before it. This is all under bill pending. But the actual bill shows we used 900 pounds worth in 9 days 10-19 Feb based on amended after the time estimated readings even though it had recorded my actual, all just looks a bit crackers. Anyway, appreciate it as ever I'll keep an eye out over the next few weeks. Apologies for if seems a vent and thanks again.