Owe my old supplier? But I was PAYG?

In which case they should have written to you about it and provided an updated bill.

Back Billing rules will basically wipe out pretty much all of that “debt” by this point.

Hey @NeddyMorai 

I’m sorry to read about this situation.

We’re very glad our volunteers have been here to help on this one and it very much seems like they’ve steered you in the right direction.

Keep us updated with what LCS say next. 

It may still be worth opening a complaint too if you still wanted to, and haven’t done so yet. This means there will be a record of the issue if it does develop, especially as they initially tried to push you back onto OVO to sort it.

@iseb you should do the same too. LCS must be able to prove the debt is valid, otherwise they must back off. Don’t let them brush you off. My advice earlier in the thread should help guide you to formulate a letter/email to LCS to get them to back off.

Traditional PAYG Meters send meter readings automatically whenever you top-up via the key/card. PAYG Smart Meters send them automatically on a daily basis. There is no manual process for it.

Blastoise186 I  have done what Neddy did to LCS and they have emailed response as below the tone has come down. But I want to align everything ready. I dont want to be threatened @NeddyMorai  where did you get account number from as in the LCS letter it says only Client id and LCS reference. But I never had account neither with SSE nor OVO as I was just given Fob to top up as SSE advised me customer service that I dont need to have account just go to paypoint and top up I have date of the call as well. I have spoken Ofgem for advise and they said OVO should handle the complain and all final bill should be send by OVO. So they have asked me to wait for OVO.

And mean time I have written email to LCS which has responded below. By the way is there any timeline for this.

iseb wrote:

Blastoise186 I  have done what Neddy did to LCS and they have emailed response as below the town has come down. But I want to align everything ready. I dont want to be threatened @Neddy where did you get account number from as in the LCS letter it says only Client id and LCS reference. But I never had account neither with SSE nor OVO as I was just given Fob to top up as SSE advised me customer service that I dont need to have account just go to paypoint and top up I have date of the call as well. I have spoken Ofgem for advise and they said OVO should handle the complain and all final bill should be send by OVO. So they have asked me to wait for OVO.

And mean time I have written email to LCS which has responded below. By the way is there any timeline for this.

 

 

 

Thats a holding response. They will reply again. The SSE account number was in the top right corner of the letter. It was basically the top-up account number but missing two digits.

In that case, you should have some breathing room for now. :)

@NeddyMorai  I checked and none of these numbers are my account or previous person account . Please can you check is this right area I am looking.

*edited by mod*

It would be. I recognise the format of that Client reference number, which matches the syntax for SSE accounts.

Its the client reference. For me that was my top up number.

@NeddyMorai @Blastoise186  Thanks for reply so they are not my account number.

Well, that probably voids the entire debt then. If you’ve NEVER had an SSE account or you totally wiped the balance out, it’s an open and shut case.

Keep us posted @iseb

I also want to swing back to a comment about active vs. inactive account migration.

It is true that OVO only migrated active accounts into the Orion billing platform. Directly migrating inactive ones would have generated tens of thousands of dead accounts and wasted resources for things that are never going to get used.

However, OVO did capture an archive of the final state of all SSE systems and this is stored separately, in a way that Support can access. This is where all inactive accounts can be found - and their data.

@Emmanuelle_OVO  I have still no response since my evidence of top up payment evidence during the period and email.

@Blastoise186 I have now chatted with two adviser and they dont have any account in my property name. I have saved the copy of the chat made complain to OVO as ofgem has said they can only look into if I can provide evidence that 8 week passed and no response from OVO. But I am not sure if SSE is now OVO then and credit they put in file will be by operating company which is OVO. Also how can SSE close or migrate account to OVO if there balance sheet was not tallying. This is very strange.

Well, for PAYG the Debt Assignment Protocol would have re-assigned any SSE debts to EDF and then closed the SSE PAYG account anyway when you switched away, as long as they were below £500 at the time. If the debt was £0 then this won’t trigger - the account would just close.

If more than £500 the switch would be blocked.

@Blastoise186 I have contacted EDF they have account but not mine but of new person. I never had any account as before. They have confirmed there was no debt when move was done as Customer is in control. The meter goes in emergency mode when credit run out and maximum is 10 pound. I have not heard anything from LCSDR. @NeddyMorai any response you have received.

Not so far. 

Makes me wonder if our advice did the trick.

I want to credit @Nukecad for that, which was their idea. I just happened to be the one who’s done most of the open discussion here. :)

I have dealt with LSCDR myself in the past, so knew what was likely to work.

In my particular case, which was an unusual one but not as unusual as this, they did start up again 3 months later, (I believe though that the company involved had given then a new collection instruction, I never got that confirmed). I got pretty legal with them that second time, with carefully worded threats of bringing my own legal action for harassment, and they quickly backed off again. I havent heard from them since.

@Nukecad  I contacted EDF again just to clarify the negative balance condition. It seems LCSDR said on call that may be you were in debt in Pay as you go meter. Also since LSCDR said in first instant that they wont consider my pay point recipient. I ask EDF what can I prove to show these are top of same meter , they confirmed me the meter number which I read out to them and they confirmed. But my account I can see on portal is on hold. I am not sure what they will say next but all I know CS are making statement as they go along.

Yes I had noticed that they tend to do that. (Many DR companies do).
When asked for proof of what they are saying it never materialises.

DON’T phone them or speak to them if they phone you.
You want a written record of everything that either of you says.

Just stick to your position, and keep repeating it. Use the same words again.
Don’t let them sidetrack you with peripheral issues, stick to your position that you do not recognise or accept the debt.

Have LCS confirmed to you that the alleged debt originates from EDF?

If they have confirmed that then if/when they contact you again you can try asking them the following:

I request/require that you clarify:
Are you acting as solicitors for EDF? or;
Are you acting as debt collectors for EDF? or;
Have you purchased the alleged debt from EDF?

When dealing with such people I also add this to at least one email, or to every email I send them:

PLEASE NOTE that any further communications regarding this matter should be made by email to the originating address of this email, or by written letter to my current home address.
Please do not attempt to contact me by telephone, either by mobile or landline. I will refuse such contact and hang up.

Also note that I will not be registering/logging in to your website. I will not be setting up a payment plan. I am not your 'customer'.

I’m assuming that you haven’t already registered an LCS account?

They are being somewhat semi-legal agressive towards you, so push back at them with questions and statements like the above.
But keep it formal/polite and to the point, don’t let them sidetrack you, don’t degenerate to name calling or abuse.

@Nukecad  I did not register on there portal but they have send email with details i.e. embedded link as MY Portal. So this has happened without my consent then. Also can I ask before the account was put on hold they were saying they will continue send me letters to which I said you need to send me emails. But I am wondering if they will lie to me and say I have send letters. I would never know about this letter unless the current person who is residing would have not contacted me.

LCS have said that Debt has been raised by SSE energy. But when @Blastoise186 suggested that pay as you go was transferred to EDF then I came to know about this as Ofgem said you need complain to OVO. So I have put to OVO and no response 48hours have passed I have also email Raman-Team as they will not contact me if I was not there customer. I have web chat evidence said that I have no account on the property or in my name as I said when I called SSE for which now I have traced 3 calls made to SSE then customer service who advised I can top-up with Fob.

EDF is saying the customer is in control of meter so it can never go in debt more than 10 pound. And if there is debt then you will also see on the meter and will keep deducting money and standing charges together. LCS was saying I am responsible standing charges etc etc which also EDF said you pay along with top up. I am planning to go to see the meter to take some pictures to see if there is anything else in display. Also they were asking me details of person who moved in the property and I denied saying under GDPR policy I can discuss all this SSE should have means to validate this.  But now I understand after speaking to ombudsman they need to confirm the debt. 

Correct, but it is LCS who are chasing the alleged debt and so it is LCS who need to confirm that debt exists, and that it is repayable.
(Not all debts have to be paid).

You should not be chasing round multiple companies and organisations trying to confirm it for them.

It is LCS’s responsibility to confirm that the debt actually exists, not yours.

You don’t do their job for them, and you don’t give them a penny until/unless they can prove that the debt actually exists, and if it does exist that it is actually repayable.

To be honest here, LCS appear to have you running round like a headless chicken contacting various companies and organisations who know nothing about the matter.
It is of no use contacting companies who know nothing about this alleged debt.
It is just making things more complicated and confusing, for you and for everyone trying to help you.

If LCS themselves cannot provide evidence of (confirm) the alleged debt then there is no debt.
They have no evidence to put before a court to show there is a debt and get a debt repayment order.
(So their threats of going to court and getting a County Court Judgment, CCJ, are just empty threats - because without evidence that there is a repayable debt there is no way a judge would give them that).

Taking a step back:
I think that you have become mired down with all this and are now just complicating things further.

You need to stop trying to deal with it on your own and contact an advisor local to you, someone who can see all your letters up to now, and who can do something for you that we can't do here - which is to contact LCS on your behalf to sort out just what is going on.

Citizens Advice is the first that most people think of, but there are others.
Put your postcode in here to find advisors local to you: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser
Ring one of them and make an appointment to take your paperwork along so that they can see it and help you sort this mess out.

@Nukecad  thanks for the information. I have taken legal advice and you are write I was trying to solve the problem. However I have now been said they have to follow the step for “Prove IT”. 

In the end if someone, anyone, is asking you for money then it’s their responsibility to prove why you should give them anything at all.

If they can’t provide that valid proof, ie. proof that would stand up in a court, then they are just trying it on and can take a hike.