@Gingernut49 what else was suggested on your report ?

I can't remember now. I'm just going out but I'll have a look later. It's on my emails. I'm not doing anything more except having to have a cupboard built around the installation as it didn't all fit in the boiler cupboard I had before. That's costing me about £700 as I have to get someone to do it. I'm only on a state pension. 

I think those costs need adding into the report which will eventually end up with BEIS. There’s no point in the Government being led into believing that this strategy is viable if you ignore all the accessories (including redecoration in some instances).

Just back in. I've had an email from research@emailicf.com asking me to fill in a survey about my installation and I'm not sure I can until Ovo sort out my billing. 

I'm delighted with my warm home but so far not the energy usage.

The fact that the bills are a shambles is a valid bit of feedback, @Gingernut49 !

It’s possible that the survey doesn’t allow for this sort of feedback however. ICF are just a 3rd-party survey company, not directly involved with the Trial operation.

Even if your bills were sorted out, the Trial itself doesn’t appear to be financially viable. Taking into account additional insulation, you still need to be getting electricity for about 7p per kWh during the early evening peak. That’s just not going to happen, whichever Energy Supplier you were with.

Frankly, we could pretty well write the conclusion to the Final Report at this stage, couldn’t we?

The only reason for waiting a year is to have some real usage/cost figures to back up that conclusion.

Returning to my original question - Is anyone doing any improvements to their insulation ?!

@Rob Whitney @Gingernut49 @NinjaGeek @hydrosam @mrmojorisin04 @RAJ 

My house has had extensive insulation fitted since I moved in 11 years ago. I had the loft insulated under the government's scheme quite a few years ago.

I'm mid-terrace so I only needed the front and back walls done and I didn't bother with my front bedroom as it's warm enough. 

Nothing planned as yet. The install of the heat pump seemed to take priority over the insulation aspect of the scheme - I’m not sure if that’ll get resurrected or not.

The original report mentioned increasing the loft insulation (from 15cm) and possibly underfloor insulation but the impact of that was fairly minimal in comparison to the cost (and hassle), especially as we have carpet with good underlay so can't imagine it would make that much difference.

No extra insulation required here.
I rebuilt my house a few years ago and insulated above buildings regs. I used the same warm roof  construction @Transparent described earlier which is really only feasible if you are intending to  re-roof the property. 
 

None needed. House was heat pump ready and has a measly 6kw air source 

Those costs seem prohibitive @Gingernut49 but then I’m looking at this from the viewpoint of a large-scale DIY renovator!

Out of interest, if you were offered some of these additional works free of charge in order to make this Trial more viable, would you still consider any of those suggestions?

Or are you put off by the disruption which some would cause?

PV is for solar (isn’t it?) and my roof is too small.

I have carpets and don’t want to have that upheaval.

I have insulation on the front and back walls and I’m mid-terrace.

I can’t afford to change my windows and what’s the point of going from double to triple glazing but then having to improve your ventilation?!

When I’m cooking I put the extractor fan on.

I have an automatic extractor in the bathroom.

Hi @Gingernut49 thanks for that page from your report, I’ve reread mine and realised it’s the answer to my question re what measures I should take.

Can I ask what your initial energy rating was ? Mine’s 53E which is obviously terrible !! I assume the ‘phase 1 measures’ means installing the heat pump. On my report the heat pump bumps me up 12 points to 65D. The next big improvement on the report would be 4kWp solar panels, which I have planned to do, that would give me 18 more points. We have a huge roof being a bungalow, limited budget though !

1: Yes @Gingernut49  PV is PhotoVoltaic Solar Panels. There are solar panels (such as the Panasonic HIT series) which are 50% more efficient per square metre. So don’t rule this out without having some more technical discussion.

I’m adding a further 10 HIT panels to my roof at the moment. It’s being done so I have the option (if I want) to connect them to my PowerVault Battery Trial Unit, or for off-grid use.

Solar battery storage is definitely one way to make your Heat Pumps financially viable. So I’m getting ready to make this proposal in a new Topic.

1b: There are future possibilities using either Kaluza’s Flex Platform or else a community-operated Micro-grid whereby power can be “borrowed” from rooftops of houses connected to the same sub-station. This is too big a subject to discuss here, but have a look at the Owen Square Community Energy Project to get a glimpse of what can be done.

2: Adding 50mm insulation below your floors is easily the most effective and easy option on your list. Unlike @juliamc you have suspended timber floors.

Frankly I don’t know why the surveyor has only stipulated 50mm. There’s a formula for calculating this based on room perimeter and area. I’ve never seen it come out this low. 70-100mm is more likely and would cost negligibly more whilst the floorboards are up..

Yes, I understand the comment about your fitted carpets… but unless we help you to do something, then you’re not going to be able to afford your energy bills!

Mine was 70C. Yes, phase 1 is the heat pump. Afterwards it was projected at 88B. I wish I could have solar but this is my roof and I’m overshadowed by the large building next door which was a pub (now a mosque). The sun is only on the back of the house in mid summer.

I have concrete floors downstairs. I can’t afford new carpets and the floors don’t feel cold.

In that case your SAP survey isn’t correct. It states that you have suspended timber floors.

Here’s a photo of one of my suspended timber floors. The floorboards have been removed to show the joists underneath and I’ve added 90mm of insulation between them. The reel of white pipe is for underfloor heating, so you can ignore that.

The reason you feel “warm as toast” (as you first wrote) is because the heat-input to your home is more than should be necessary. It’s leaking away.

Having additional insulation does not make a house feel warmer, despite what any salesman may tell you! It simply lowers the bills because you need less energy to keep the house at that set temperature.

And please remember, I’m currently looking at theoretical strategies which would cost you nothing. If I’m going to propose solutions, I need that freedom to think “outside the box”.

I like your suggestion @Transparent of using floor insulation that already has the pipework for under floor heating. If it was possible to patch in a room at a time onto my ASHP system then I’d def have the bathroom done. Do you think that’s realistic ? I now have a new little radiator in there - after the trial is over could it be ditched and the heating supply rerouted to the floor ?

Yes @juliamc - I would certainly do this a room at a time!

The alternative is to vacate the property and move all the furniture out

UFH needs water at a lower temperature than radiators. Typically water flow at 45°C will yield a temperature on top of the floor of around 23-25°C. More than that and you end up warping wood!

I have UFH below kitchen/bathroom tiles and oak floorboards which I’ve done completely by myself. So I have a very practical knowledge of what’s involved.

The common way to achieve the required 45°C is to take the feed that usually goes to radiators (70-75°C) and mix this with the water returning from the UFH pipe. There’s a standard unit which does this.

However I’d like to ask the opinion of @Rob Whitney and @hydrosam on this because something else occurs to me which would be cheaper but just as effective!

Could either of you two gentlemen please tell me the approximate temperature of the return water to your external Heat pump at the moment?

And Rob, is a Heat pump more or less efficient if that return water is cooler?

I’m sure you can both see where I’m heading with this!

The heat pump is designed to work on DT5 so answering your question is - not necessarily 

Evidence of the deltaT of 5C in the image below. My heating is on, house at 20C and leaving water temperature is 44C, return to heat pump 5C lower. 
Rads should be optimised/upsized to work at this temperature. 
 

Perfect it’s usually a case of radiator balancing to obtain the best outcome 

Thanks Rob. I’ll spend some time on that, Northern Gas didn’t. 
Im also waiting for the pipe insulation and buffer tank to be sorted which should improve things. 

Well if the water being delivered by the Heat pump to your radiators is as low as that, then it could also safely be directed into an UnderFloor Heating pipe. Even it’s a bit higher, it would require little mixing to keep it within the required range.

I had been expecting the water required by your radiators to be much hotter.